Dubbed "Vodka Mom" in scathing Nancy Grace segment, MN woman burns self to death

[otto]

I don't know why you keep saying she accidentally suffocated her baby. That baby's death was no more an accident then if she put a bullet in his head. If a person leaves a bar after having a bunch of drinks and gets in their car and hits another car and people in that car die then they are a murdered. Those people didn't die by accident. They were murdered. No difference here.

NG claims that this woman murdered her child. Police disagreed. Police investigated and came to the conclusion that it was an accidental death. NG is completely out of line broadcasting an opinion that goes against conclusions made by trained investigators that were at the scene. Still, NG has decided that this woman is a murderer and now people actually believe that it was murder. That is really sad.

These are the facts: "Greg Malcolm, a detective with the Cottage Grove Police Department, which investigated the infant's death, said he believed the child's death was accidental.

"I sincerely don't believe that she had any intent to cause harm to her child on this evening," Malcolm said. "By all other accounts, she's been a productive mom, a good mom. She's done a decent job of raising her children. She, unfortunately, was in the habit of sleeping with this particular child from the day it came home from the hospital."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/11/toni-medrano-vodka-mom_n_1665792.html

 

[txsvicki]

The woman must have been severely mentally ill especially if she poured fuel onto her self and lit it. That and getting so drunk with a newborn seems more than just alcoholism.sleeping on the couch since the birth and having no help with the baby or no one to check on the safety of the baby seems very neglient. It doesn't sound like she was a secret drunk at all.her husband knew of the danger. Maybe it's a good thing her death is being investigated .

 

[txsvicki]

The woman must have been severely mentally ill especially if she poured fuel onto her self and lit it. That and getting so drunk with a newborn seems more than just alcoholism.sleeping on the couch since the birth and having no help with the baby or no one to check on the safety of the baby seems very neglient. It doesn't sound like she was a secret drunk at all.her husband knew of the danger. Maybe it's a good thing her death is being investigated .

 

[oh_gal]

I am just truly baffled that none of this anger/scorn is being directed at the dad. It was his child too, and he had a responsibility to protect that child, especially if mom was impaired and not able to do it. But he's just getting a free pass because..??

Maybe it's a cultural thing. Maybe there is mindset that it's MOM"S job to take care of the child, and not DAD'S, therefore, he is blameless. That's the way it was in my parent's day: mom took care of the house and kids, dad went out to work and made $$ to support his family.

 

[skybludeb]

IMO NG shouldn't have ANY deaths on her conscience. She didn't make those 2 moms kill themselves.

I can tell you, if I had rolled on top of my baby and killed him/her because I was drunk out of my mind, I'd probably feel like killing myself too.

NG didn't cause this.

This woman had major issues. Issues that cost her baby's life and caused her to take her own.

JMO

I agree Nancy Grace didnt kill these women she just tells it like it is if your getting drunk and drink a fith of vodka why not get a babysitter????

 

[jjenny]

These are the facts: "Greg Malcolm, a detective with the Cottage Grove Police Department, which investigated the infant's death, said he believed the child's death was accidental.



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/11/toni-medrano-vodka-mom_n_1665792.html

Regardless of what detective Malcolm thinks, this woman was charged with manslaughter. Those are the facts.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

That she is solely responsible. Why would dad leave his infant with a significantly impaired caregiver? How is that even reasonable? He can shoulder his fair share of this blame. I am actually surprised that the court of public opinion hasnt been breathing down his neck as well.

That's not what I said.

I said her ACTIONS alone killed that baby.
Her action: drinking a fifth of vodka
Her action: sleeping with with baby on a narrow surface with the baby between her and the back of the couch.

Her ACTIONS killed that precious baby boy.

His inaction may have contributed to the situation, but her physical actions killed the baby.

 

[oh_gal]

That's not what I said.

I said her ACTIONS alone killed that baby.
Her action: drinking a fifth of vodka
Her action: sleeping with with baby on a narrow surface with the baby between her and the back of the couch.

Her ACTIONS killed that precious baby boy.

His inaction may have contributed to the situation, but her physical actions killed the baby.

....OR...his ACTION of just going on his way, and not taking the baby to it's crib killed the baby, as well.

 

[Oakland CA]

unfortunately imo ng does not have a conscience... and im not saying that just to be snarky or mean. i actually believe that ng has some kind of mood/personality disorder. im not a professional so who knows? but the way she treats her own people isnt much better than she treats accused murderers, kwim? then all the time she spends talking about what a great mother/person that she is in comparison. seriously, npd maybe? jmho...

+ 1000

Well said

 

[otto]

The woman must have been severely mentally ill especially if she poured fuel onto her self and lit it. That and getting so drunk with a newborn seems more than just alcoholism.sleeping on the couch since the birth and having no help with the baby or no one to check on the safety of the baby seems very neglient. It doesn't sound like she was a secret drunk at all.her husband knew of the danger. Maybe it's a good thing her death is being investigated .

Exactly. This young woman, with 5 or 6 children, obviously had enough difficulties in life without having some really rich, loudmouth, opinionated, ill-informed, ill-mannered woman badmouthing her and inciting hatred all over the evening tv programs. In retrospect, she was an easy target; an easy victim for boosting the ratings.

 

[otto]

I am just truly baffled that none of this anger/scorn is being directed at the dad. It was his child too, and he had a responsibility to protect that child, especially if mom was impaired and not able to do it. But he's just getting a free pass because..??

Maybe it's a cultural thing. Maybe there is mindset that it's MOM"S job to take care of the child, and not DAD'S, therefore, he is blameless. That's the way it was in my parent's day: mom took care of the house and kids, dad went out to work and made $$ to support his family.

It's certainly a 1950s cultural thing, but no educated woman today should have that opinion.

 

[otto]

Regardless of what detective Malcolm thinks, this woman was charged with manslaughter. Those are the facts.

Manslaughter ("The crime of killing a human being without malice aforethought, or otherwise in circumstances not amounting to murder.") is not murder. NG knows that.

 

[oh_gal]

It's certainly a 1950s cultural thing, but no educated woman today should have that opinion.

Yes, I agree. However, I can find no other explanation for why Dad bears no responsibility(and/or blame, if we're going to sling it around) -- ESPECIALLY when he had the foresight to say, "huh...you probably shouldn't be doing that....." Clearly, he recognized the danger...but chose to do nothing. Yet, he remains blameless?

 

[oh_gal]

unfortunately imo ng does not have a conscience... and im not saying that just to be snarky or mean. i actually believe that ng has some kind of mood/personality disorder. im not a professional so who knows? but the way she treats her own people isnt much better than she treats accused murderers, kwim? then all the time she spends talking about what a great mother/person that she is in comparison. seriously, npd maybe? jmho...

For whatever reason, I have noticed that women can be especially more damning, vicious or judgmental of other women, especially when one commits an unforgivable act. Could be all those hormones constantly in flux, who knows?

 

[otto]

Yes, I agree. However, I can find no other explanation for why Dad bears no responsibility(and/or blame, if we're going to sling it around) -- ESPECIALLY when he had the foresight to say, "huh...you probably shouldn't be doing that....." Clearly, he recognized the danger...but chose to do nothing. Yet, he remains blameless?

Isn't there something in the law that states that it's okay to not intervene if a murder is about to take place? Since NG views this as murder, rather than an accident, it makes sense that NG views the husband as having the right to not intervene on behalf of the victim. That's the best I can come up with for NG giving the sober husband a pass when it comes to responsibility for his child's welfare. That makes no sense to me, but it may be how NG rationalizes bullying only the mother.

 

[believe09]

For me as well, the heart of the matter is the attitude that holds her solely responsible. The attitude that makes her the primary caregiver and decisionmaker regardless of her mental and physical state, even though there was another adult in the home who knew that she was drunk. Another adult who was bio dad. Who apparently feels he did his duty and walked away.

As for NG, I believe that her segment was very poorly sourced. I would hate to believe that she DID vet with LE and perhaps found answers that didnt match with the "outrage" she wanted to project. I suppose we will see if that becomes part of the story in the future.

 

[oh_gal]

For me as well, the heart of the matter is the attitude that holds her solely responsible. The attitude that makes her the primary caregiver and decisionmaker regardless of her mental and physical state, even though there was another adult in the home who knew that she was drunk. Another adult who was bio dad. Who apparently feels he did his duty and walked away.

As for NG, I believe that her segment was very poorly sourced. I would hate to believe that she DID vet with LE and perhaps found answers that didnt match with the "outrage" she wanted to project. I suppose we will see if that becomes part of the story in the future.

Oh, that wouldn't surprise me in the least...it's the old "if-it-doesn't-fit-in-with-my-idea/belief/personal feelings-it-ceases-to-exist" mentality.

 

[oh_gal]

Mistake vs. Murder

I can only speak for myself. I consider this an accident rather than murder based on intent.

Did the mom intend to harm her child?

For her to have murdered her child by suffocation, she would have had to intend or plan to kill her child, and then, with intent, suffocate her child.
(Although, I understand there are "degrees" of murder that occur on the spur of the moment -- this isn't one of them).

What makes something an "accident"? The fact that you don't mean for it to happen.

I don't doubt, for a minute, that this woman didn't "mean" to harm her child.

Did she make a bad decision? Absolutely.
Did she take a life? Absolutely.
She's already given her life because of her actions. I don't know what else she can give, but that doesn't stop the prevailing feeling that she must pay.

 

[katydid23]

Mistake vs. Murder

I can only speak for myself. I consider this an accident rather than murder based on intent.

Did the mom intend to harm her child?

For her to have murdered her child by suffocation, she would have had to intend or plan to kill her child, and then, with intent, suffocate her child.
(Although, I understand there are "degrees" of murder that occur on the spur of the moment -- this isn't one of them).

What makes something an "accident"? The fact that you don't mean for it to happen.

I don't doubt, for a minute, that this woman didn't "mean" to harm her child.

Did she make a bad decision? Absolutely.
Did she take a life? Absolutely.
She's already given her life because of her actions. I don't know what else she can give, but that doesn't stop the prevailing feeling that she must pay.

Nobody ever said she meant to murder her child. But she had TWO DUI's in one month. So she was an accident just waiting to happen. If she had killed someone while driving drunk,it would have been manslaughter,negligent murder, even without the intent to murder.

Drinking an entire liter of vodka while caring for a newborn is very much like 'drunk driving' imo. Just because she had no intent to harm her child, that does not take away the negligent, criminal component. She would not have been facing 10 yrs in jail if it was a total 'accident.'

 

[oh_gal]

Nobody ever said she meant to murder her child. But she had TWO DUI's in one month. So she was an accident just waiting to happen. If she had killed someone while driving drunk,it would have been manslaughter,negligent murder, even without the intent to murder.

Drinking an entire liter of vodka while caring for a newborn is very much like 'drunk driving' imo. Just because she had no intent to harm her child, that does not take away the negligent, criminal component. She would not have been facing 10 yrs in jail if it was a total 'accident.'

(above bbm)
You're exactly right. It's called involuntary manslaughter or criminally negligent manslaugher, not murder.

My post is in reference to a post, above, where the poster cannot fathom how some don't feel this is murder. It was my intent to provide that poster with my view, as someone who does not see this as "murder." A sad loss of life, completely preventable.

Sometimes I can get tunnel vision, to the point where I don't see anything but what I see. It is helpful to me (and probably others) to have someone give me a different perspective.