Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #35

[Mountain Misst]

For those of you missing Hawkins I can assure you that this poster is keeping an eye on us and drops by - as recently as last Saturday evening in fact.

I sincerely hope that this is not taken as 'sleuthing on another user' as it is intended, as given, as reassurance and in good faith for those whom miss Hawkin's input.

Hugs all round - the bloody westerlies have started, so y'all must be off to the ekka soon. I miss Brissie.

 

[Rational]

Thanks! I think that there is an institutional fondness for Harvard system. As most of my references seem to be from journals that are written in collaboration they are ridiculously long to acknowledge all the authors!! Brain is suffering from lack of use - back to uni after 25 years - but repetition seems to be key (second nature to kids especially when asking for new toys!!)

THe reason there is an institutional fondness is that promotions in academia partly involve demonstrating how many times you have been quoted. Except for the Harvard system, most others only show the principal or first author of a joint article or book. Academics can talk about this ad nauseum (no link but the father of my daughter has been occupying the ivory towers for the last 35 years - and I still have nightmares thinking about the dinner party topics :floorlaugh

 

[minni]

THe reason there is an institutional fondness is that promotions in academia partly involve demonstrating how many times you have been quoted. Except for the Harvard system, most others only show the principal or first author of a joint article or book. Academics can talk about this ad nauseum (no link but the father of my daughter has been occupying the ivory towers for the last 35 years - and I still have nightmares thinking about the dinner party topics :floorlaugh

my brain hurts even thinking about referencing. It is my most hated aspect of uni, without a doubt (my linking method will back this up I think)

 

[minni]

Thanks Pulps. Is there a possibility that GBC could have an unconscious need to humiliate his wife and hence place her in an environment that frightened her i.e. water and also was so jealous of her real world ability/talents/skills etc. that he put her in a place with a name like Little Ugly Creek (which is nearby to where Allison was found)???

I am the place where he put Allison, as let's face it - he had not one but two 4wd vehicles, the weather had been dry and he lived in an area that had a lot of national park and bushland that was accessible by 4wd.
There were a lot of places Allison could have been placed but he chose to put her where he did.

IMHO

I think this is a real possibility Mani, but I can't see him doing it on a real conscious level, with any cleverness (or nastiness) and pause for thought. unless it had been part of his original plan, and he just followed through and carried out his intention for that original plan? you are spot on with that I think.

Anyway, I say that subconsciously he might have done it because, if he killed her in a rage, as I believe he did, then he would still have been filled with hatred and anger towards her afterwards (maybe he even felt angry at her for 'making him kill her that night' when he had meant to do it later, and neater).


so, maybe subconsciously, he gained satisfaction from dumping her in water, knowing how she feared it. And maybe he sneered at the fact that it was near Little Ugly. It would have made him feel good in the same way releasing the rage and hatred he had when he killed her, made him feel good.

So to stop me rambling:

If it was preplanned and thought out? yes, consciously to belittle her

If it was done in rage and anger? maybe subconsciously to satisfy his fury and 'dump on her' to say 'that'll teach you..how do you like that?'

and sorry, one more thing. If it was thought out and preplanned, it may have been meant to look like a suicide (I think so). There may be another reason that he thought this particular place would make it look authentic, something personal about Allison that he thought would add to it looking real?

 

[Mani]

I think this is a real possibility Mani, but I can't see him doing it on a real conscious level, with any cleverness (or nastiness) and pause for thought. unless it had been part of his original plan, and he just followed through and carried out his intention for that original plan? you are spot on with that I think.

Anyway, I say that subconsciously he might have done it because, if he killed her in a rage, as I believe he did, then he would still have been filled with hatred and anger towards her afterwards (maybe he even felt angry at her for 'making him kill her that night' when he had meant to do it later, and neater).


so, maybe subconsciously, he gained satisfaction from dumping her in water, knowing how she feared it. And maybe he sneered at the fact that it was near Little Ugly. It would have made him feel good in the same way releasing the rage and hatred he had when he killed her, made him feel good.

So to stop me rambling:

If it was preplanned and thought out? yes, consciously to belittle her

If it was done in rage and anger? maybe subconsciously to satisfy his fury and 'dump on her' to say 'that'll teach you..how do you like that?'

and sorry, one more thing. If it was thought out and preplanned, it may have been meant to look like a suicide (I think so). There may be another reason that he thought this particular place would make it look authentic, something personal about Allison that he thought would add to it looking real?

Thanks Minni - subconscious is the term.

 

[possumheart]

http://m.thechronicle.com.au/story/2012/07/26/wife-has-murder-charge-dropped/


A MURDER charge against Melissa Anne Englart has been dropped after a court found she was of unsound mind when she slit her husband's throat in front of their children at her Cabarlah home.

 

[DrWatson]

Thanks for the support from those who took my posts in the spirit in which they were intended.

New bit of info - just drove past the BC house on Brookfield Rd, and all the tributes have gone! The flowers, the notes, everything.

Could be the owners, I guess, trying to remove the memories......

 

[Curiousasacat]

Bellgirl - Alzheimer's Disease is what used to be called "pre-senile dementia". The reason I mentioned it in relation to the posts on NBC possibly having dementia is that he is only 69 - young to get the classical "senile dementia". And the point I was actually making was that I know of people who DO have mild Alzheimers who continue to drive quite OK.

It is a type of dementia that tends to come on earlier in life, and tends to affect those over 65. The incidence rises once over about 85. It is one of a group of conditions collectively termed "dementias". Some are metabolic, some are physical damage in the brain (Alzheimer's is thought to be one of those), and some are quite a mystery - just the functional deterioration.

Many people as they get older - and I'm talking over 75-80 broadly - will show signs on a CT scan (or MRI) of the brain such as atrophy of the brain, particularly the gyri and sulci on the surface of the cerebral hemispheres.

But basically, the dementias comprise a group of conditions, the common features being deteriorating brain function, particularly memory. Alzheimer's is one of these.

Hope that makes sense.

And no - I don't think NBC has dementia, Alzheimer's or otherwise, although I'm not a neurologist and I haven't examined him.

EDIT: Here's a brief summary of just a few of the different types of dementia:

http://www.fightdementia.org.au/understanding-dementia/types-of-dementia.aspx

'NOTHER EDIT: I see Bellgirl's original post was deleted, and I didn't quote it in mine, so in case my post doesn't make much sense, she was just asking about Alzheimer's and how it related to the more general term of "dementia"..... Maybe this information is useful for those who have been discussing dementia, although I don't think it pertains to this case. If the Mods think it better just to delete this post, then please feel free to do so.

My mum is only 71 and has just been diagnosed with Degenerative Brain disease. I'm devastated,she really is not the same person .

 

[KG1]

http://m.thechronicle.com.au/story/2012/07/26/wife-has-murder-charge-dropped/


A MURDER charge against Melissa Anne Englart has been dropped after a court found she was of unsound mind when she slit her husband's throat in front of their children at her Cabarlah home.

This case and consequences are a terrible legacy to the 4 little children and extended families. It is always the children who suffer for their whole lives.

 

[KG1]

Thanks for the support from those who took my posts in the spirit in which they were intended.

New bit of info - just drove past the BC house on Brookfield Rd, and all the tributes have gone! The flowers, the notes, everything.

Could be the owners, I guess, trying to remove the memories......

Hi Doc, thanks for this info. It is likely no longer appropriate at the house, especially if the children have returned to Brookfield. I am sure the bridge tributes will continue and KTK's cross will still be there for a long time.

 

[KG1]

My mum is only 71 and has just been diagnosed with Degenerative Brain disease. I'm devastated,she really is not the same person .

Hugs to you CC. It is not an easy time and your biggest contribution to her will be your love and support and particularly patience with her. You have to hold it together for her, which is very hard, because subconsciously you are grieving yourself. I hope you have some good family support too, but if not, there are support groups to access to assist you to deal with this sad news. Importantly, make the most of every day you have with your Mum, hard as it may become.

 

[Curiousasacat]

Hugs to you CC. It is not an easy time and your biggest contribution to her will be your love and support and particularly patience with her. You have to hold it together for her, which is very hard, because subconsciously you are grieving yourself. I hope you have some good family support too, but if not, there are support groups to access to assist you to deal with this sad news. Importantly, make the most of every day you have with your Mum, hard as it may become.

What a lovely post,thank you KG1. I have to admit,at first I didn't understand and we fought a lot,as I said she is a different person. Unfortunately I am living overseas away from her and I worry and feel guilty everyday for not being there for her. After learning about the disease I have been able to adapt to it and I am learning ever so slowly to be patient.

Sorry guys this is OT, I was trying to say that these things can happen to people of NBC's age.

I really wish I could comment on the Hawkins thing but for once I am being a very good girl : )

 

[possumheart]

Hugs to you CC. It is not an easy time and your biggest contribution to her will be your love and support and particularly patience with her. You have to hold it together for her, which is very hard, because subconsciously you are grieving yourself. I hope you have some good family support too, but if not, there are support groups to access to assist you to deal with this sad news. Importantly, make the most of every day you have with your Mum, hard as it may become.

Having been through this with my mother-in-law, make sure you have her legals and advanced health directive all sorted ASAP. Then make sure you take very good care of yourself because it is a long, hard and confronting journey. My heart sincerely goes out to you

 

[Kimster]

Stop posting about other posters. NOW. ullhair:

Get ON TOPIC! NOW.

 

[LauraMars]

Ok, to get back on topic, have been thinking about Allison's parents, and whether they would have known/thought from the beginning that GBC killed Allison.

There has been a lot of mention that the police knew it was him from day one, and I was even told that from a friend who works for QPS (once he was arrested), but I wonder whether they felt that also. There was something her father said in the very early stages, that he knew something was really wrong straight away, but I can't remember his exact words sorry.

I am sure by the time her funeral took place they would have definitely known. How they coped with standing so close to him, even seeing him there, is beyond me. How incredibly awful for them.

 

[Curiousasacat]

Ok, to get back on topic, have been thinking about Allison's parents, and whether they would have known/thought from the beginning that GBC killed Allison.

There has been a lot of mention that the police knew it was him from day one, and I was even told that from a friend who works for QPS (once he was arrested), but I wonder whether they felt that also. There was something her father said in the very early stages, that he knew something was really wrong straight away, but I can't remember his exact words sorry.

I am sure by the time her funeral took place they would have definitely known. How they coped with standing so close to him, even seeing him there, is beyond me. How incredibly awful for them.

I knew someone at the funeral. I posted before but just to remind some.
GBC walked in the side door,went up the front to the other side,shook Mr Dickie's hand and caressed Mrs Dickie. I confirmed, "Not a hug" No was the reply a caress. The girls sat on the other side with the BC's.

 

[J-Diggety]

I knew someone at the funeral. I posted before but just to remind some.
GBC walked in the side door,went up the front to the other side,shook Mr Dickie's hand and caressed Mrs Dickie. I confirmed, "Not a hug" No was the reply a caress. The girls sat on the other side with the BC's.

That aint cool, erggh

 

[Gemini Girl]

I knew someone at the funeral. I posted before but just to remind some.
GBC walked in the side door,went up the front to the other side,shook Mr Dickie's hand and caressed Mrs Dickie. I confirmed, "Not a hug" No was the reply a caress. The girls sat on the other side with the BC's.

Did the person you know give any indication of how the Dickie's responded to GBC's handshake and caress, Curious?

once again I need the elusive barfing emoticon just thinking about that moment.

JMO MOO

Just as an afterthought, did your acquaintance say if the senior BC's approached the Dickie's at any point during the funeral?

 

[enthralled]

I knew someone at the funeral. I posted before but just to remind some.
GBC walked in the side door,went up the front to the other side,shook Mr Dickie's hand and caressed Mrs Dickie. I confirmed, "Not a hug" No was the reply a caress. The girls sat on the other side with the BC's.

My admiration and respect goes out to Allison's family for conducting themselves in such a dignified and respectful manner. They could have been forgiven if they had lashed out when dealing with such stress and heartache. Whether they had their suspicions or not they appeared to be respectful at all times.
Unfortunately I would probably not have the strength to remain so dignified if I had been in their shoes.

 

[Curiousasacat]

Did the person you know give any indication of how the Dickie's responded to GBC's handshake and caress, Curious?

once again I need the elusive barfing emoticon just thinking about that moment.

JMO MOO

I don't think she would have been able to see their faces.
LOL, if I ask her another question she is going to think I am strange.

This is really nothing as it's purely speculation,but the lady who was with my friend pointed to a dark haired lady and told this person that this person was having an affair with GBC. I have no description other than dark haired lady and the 3 girls did say hi and wave to this person. The darkhaired lady was towards the back of the church.

Sorry if you needed to read that twice.... MOO