IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #12

[Jules71]

I always felt like Sandy Breault was referring to TG but did not want to give specific details about him so she changed it from rides to walks around the lake in order to not draw attention to him.

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

 

[ShyViolet]

I think it's safe to say the girls were last seen at 12:15 on video. Nothing else has been confirmed by LE, so that is what we have to work with.

They could have easily just ridden into someone's driveway and the perp invited them inside their house. Then the perp just had to lock them in a room and drop the bikes. There are how many houses on how many routes from the Collins to the lake?

I have had the same thoughts. I have wondered if it would be possible to throw a couple bikes in a truck/van, drive straight down Evans to Maiden Lane, then through the wooded area to stage the bikes and purse?

 

[Thinkzerz]

Who fits the post-offense behavior description?

http://www.atg.wa.gov/uploadedFiles...)/Child_Abduction_Murder_Research/CMIIPDF.pdf

I am reading this and now i am thinking that someone close to where the girls were seen on camera, they were told to go to the lake. They race there IMO to be back on time. But what were they told to go there for, surely the kidnapper didn't say go there so i can kidnap you? JMO

 

[nikb]

Do you have any idea who the last person was who was confirmed
of seeing the girls alive? (Just a generic question.)
Wasn't it the bike riding man with the strange name?
Wonder if anyone else has come forward and claimed to see the
girls on the bike trial.

The only sighting I've heard of confirmed (if family counts as confirmed) is G'ma seeing them right around the time the surveillance video caught them. The lawn-watering guy claims to have seen them but that hasn't been confirmed as far as I know. And per Aunt T a "random stranger" told her he saw "a couple of girls riding bikes" but were they Elizabeth and Lyric?

LE has been so specific about the fact that someone seeing the BIKES on the trail didn't necessarily mean the girls were there, it makes me wonder. I don't think the bike riding guy (the one LE has never heard of according to press conferences) was the last to see them. I don't get the impression he saw them at all, just their bikes. Then again there are the dogs... but how fresh was that trail and did Aunt T interpret their actions correctly?

IMO and all that. I think I just confused myself more than I already was.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I think it's safe to say the girls were last seen at 12:15 on video. Nothing else has been confirmed by LE, so that is what we have to work with.

They could have easily just ridden into someone's driveway and the perp invited them inside their house. Then the perp just had to lock them in a room and drop the bikes. There are how many houses on how many routes from the Collins to the lake?

I think you are right. Just like Somer Thompson walked by the predator's home on the way to her house. No one saw or heard a thing.

IMO

 

[CHERIE.T]

The man [tim gamerdinger] never actually saw the girls. He said he saw their bikes. The last reported sighting was by Grandma, when she is said to have seen them in the parking lot area by Lizzie's house.

Thanks so much katydid23 for clearing that up for me.

 

[nikb]

The only sighting I've heard of confirmed (if family counts as confirmed) is G'ma seeing them right around the time the surveillance video caught them. The lawn-watering guy claims to have seen them but that hasn't been confirmed as far as I know. And per Aunt T a "random stranger" told her he saw "a couple of girls riding bikes" but were they Elizabeth and Lyric?

LE has been so specific about the fact that someone seeing the BIKES on the trail didn't necessarily mean the girls were there, it makes me wonder. I don't think the bike riding guy (the one LE has never heard of according to press conferences) was the last to see them. I don't get the impression he saw them at all, just their bikes. Then again there are the dogs... but how fresh was that trail and did Aunt T interpret their actions correctly?

IMO and all that. I think I just confused myself more than I already was.

Oops. Sorry, you guys were way ahead of me. I do agree the surveillance video is the last known CONFIRMED time they were seen. Right around the same time G'ma saw them so guess technically G'ma was the last actual person to see them.

 

[palaminodee]

what would be REally nice to know is if the girls were in a paddle boat. If they did in fact find evidence they were in a boat I believe it's someone they know and somewhat trust
that took them...it certainly would narrow down the suspects.

 

[SapphireSteel]

I am reading this and now i am thinking that someone close to where the girls were seen on camera, they were told to go to the lake. They race there IMO to be back on time. But what were they told to go there for, surely the kidnapper didn't say go there so i can kidnap you? JMO

Answer that question, and you find the girls.

:moo:

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I always felt like Sandy Breault was referring to TG but did not want to give specific details about him so she changed it from rides to walks around the lake in order to not draw attention to him.

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

It does seem that they are thinking the one who saw the bikes in the bike path is the only credible witness thus far.

LE seems to be going with the last time they were seen was when they were caught on camera at 12:15.

So I dont think the police think the 'sightings' of the girls themselves are credible.

IMO

 

[CHERIE.T]

No, the bike rider with the name never reported seeing the girls, just the bikes.

The only reported and not verified sighting at the lake was a man that told Aunt Tammy that he had seen the girls on their bikes at 2:30. For whatever reason, this must have raised her suspicions as she also said that the police had his name, and that "she didn't know if he was a person of interest" which always struck me as odd that she added that. I never put much stock into this sighting Becasue of the way it seemed to be suspect to even Aunt Tammy.

I believe that this was reported in one of the earliest reports. If someone really needs a link, let me know and please give me a lot of time to find it! Lol.

Thank you so much elmomom!
'd forgotten banghead about the man who told Aunt Tammy he'd seen the girls on their bikes.

No no, I don't need a link. I appreciate you remembering these details.
It horrifies me that these 2 girls are still missing.

Btw-Great discussion here tonight. I'm enjoying catching up.
Thanks to everyone who posts and cares about these girls.
I spent the evening with my nieces....made me sad for the families and scared for the girls.
imoo

 

[Thinkzerz]

Answer that question, and you find the girls.

:moo:

A boat ride?

 

[CHERIE.T]

I think it's safe to say the girls were last seen at 12:15 on video. Nothing else has been confirmed by LE, so that is what we have to work with.

They could have easily just ridden into someone's driveway and the perp invited them inside their house. Then the perp just had to lock them in a room and drop the bikes. There are how many houses on how many routes from the Collins to the lake?

From where the girls are seen on the video, I remember seeing a few houses
nearby. Were their also other houses past the security cameras?

Did LE check with local hardware stores (sorry) for someone buying,
tools, bleach, duct tape, etc? Sorry if this sounds silly. :moo:

 

[elmomom]

I may be wrong and I am too lazy to do research... My impression was that local LE was dropping hints that the girls may have not made it to the lake, but that FBI made it seem as if they were were more convinced that they had.

Not that I believe much of what they have said publicly. Most of the time I believe that pressers are highly scripted to give out only what LE wants you to believe for their own purpose of solving the case, and not what is exactly always the truth of how they feel.

 

[iamnotagolem]

I think you are right. Just like Somer Thompson walked by the predator's home on the way to her house. No one saw or heard a thing.

IMO

Possible theory. The girls did ride their bikes to the lake, TG saw their bikes BEFORE they rode by the video camera. They ride by Collins house, turn at the corner and a nice man/lady is out watering the lawn and offers the girls fresh baked cookies and milk. I'm not sure I could resist fresh baked cookies at my age, and I'm pretty sure I know better. They go inside and enjoy their treat, probably chat it up for a while. Hubby sneaks out the back door loads up the bikes and heads for the lake?

I have a hard time coming up with theories that I would even consider plausible. I think if the bikes were staged it was done by family, but I don't necessarily think the girls were abducted by family. But I do not think the girls rode their bikes to the lake. I don't know why I can accept all of those things happening.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Answer that question, and you find the girls.

:moo:

I really dont think they were ever there.

Just jumping off your post SS to post my opinion about the kidnapping.

I think it is less likely they would be found if it was a sexual predator. Sierra Lamar still has not been found and so many others are still missing when they were kidnapped. Jimmy Hendrickson's mom has waited 23 years to know who kidnapped her missing son and is still waiting and she by no means is alone.

If LE has no clue who the kidnapper is then they have no clue where he would have taken the children whether they are alive or dead. And even if they find the defendant if he is a stranger to the victim then it is much harder in locating the body of the victim. It literally is like looking for a needle in a haystack.

I dont think the parents know anything about the disappearance of the girls. They are just not smart enough to pull this off and LE not be able to know it by now.

It is much harder to find the children if a sex offender has taken them. Trying to figure out where he took them or dumped their remains is almost impossible. Especially if they have no known link to the children. I truly dont think LE would have ever known who murdered the Greone family or who kidnapped Shasta and Dylan. They were clueless and had never even heard of Joesph Duncan until he brought Shasta back to Denny's in her hometown and they had been investigating that case for 7 long weeks and was making no headway. They never knew he had been cruising the back rural roads looking for children to kidnap.

This person doesnt even have to be a RSO but could have been one who has been sexually abusing those in his own family and finally branched out when he saw the perfect opportunity to kidnap two young girls who were alone. There was nothing stopping him from taking them. They would be no match for a menacing adult male, imo, no matter what location they were kidnapped from.

imo

 

[CHERIE.T]

The only sighting I've heard of confirmed (if family counts as confirmed) is G'ma seeing them right around the time the surveillance video caught them. The lawn-watering guy claims to have seen them but that hasn't been confirmed as far as I know. And per Aunt T a "random stranger" told her he saw "a couple of girls riding bikes" but were they Elizabeth and Lyric?

LE has been so specific about the fact that someone seeing the BIKES on the trail didn't necessarily mean the girls were there, it makes me wonder. I don't think the bike riding guy (the one LE has never heard of according to press conferences) was the last to see them. I don't get the impression he saw them at all, just their bikes. Then again there are the dogs... but how fresh was that trail and did Aunt T interpret their actions correctly?

IMO and all that. I think I just confused myself more than I already was.

nikb, No, you didn't confuse me. lol
All the initials, now thats a different story.
Thanks so much for your reply and YES! The scent dogs hitting near the
trees makes me confused because imo the girls scent shouldn't have
abruptly ended right there............should it?

 

[shefner]

There's been a lot of stuff on fb but it's against :tos: to discuss here...I heard there has been quite a few raids but nothing's in the media.

It's sad when people think the investigations gone cold so quickly, when it's actually in its early days. I believe this one will be solved.

lease:

:moo:

I've followed a lot of cases Sapphire and I have to say, while this case isn't cold, it has cooled considerably. The fact the LE called in the man with the white van just this week leads me to believe they are turning over every leaf they can find....and they still don't know much. Granted, they know much more than we do, but how much is that?

I do hope these girls are located....and what a bonus if they could be safe. In our minds, we want to visualize them this way. Sadly, statistics bare out a different story. But we can always hold onto hope as tightly as we can. Even so, I always prepare myself for a let down deep inside...a protection mechanism from years of sleuthing.

 

[SapphireSteel]

It's just terrible when these children can't be brought home.

Horrific that they're taken, somehow even worse if they are never seen again.

I pray that that is not the case here but as time wears on it's looking less and less likely.

 

[CHERIE.T]

I may be wrong and I am too lazy to do research... My impression was that local LE was dropping hints that the girls may have not made it to the lake, but that FBI made it seem as if they were were more convinced that they had.

Not that I believe much of what they have said publicly. Most of the time I believe that pressers are highly scripted to give out only what LE wants you to believe for their own purpose of solving the case, and not what is exactly always the truth of how they feel.

It definitely sounded that way to me. I questioned the FBI spokesperson's
comments immediately. I thought she was sending a message to someone.
Then again, I watch Criminal Minds. :d