Armchair Psych Profile and Treatment

[Liz]

See the 11:56 mark, in this videotaped press conference and you can hear what Chief Oates says, right from his mouth:

http://www.wxyz.com/dpp/news/live-c...ra-colorado-batman-dark-knight-rises-shooting

 

[newsleuther]

So selecting the sneak preview of the movie was random as it relates to the whole package?

Not a sneak preview, opening night.

I think he selected it because it was a highly anticipated movie that would have a full theater at midnight.

 

[waitin'4thewrld2chg]

Personally, I think he'd entertained many "how to" scenarios in his mind and settled upon the movie theater because, environmentally, it afforded him everything he would need - ability to keep low profile until he was ready to kill, large number of captive/unsuspecting victims, easy access in and out with limited escape routes for his victims, ability to blend in and change when ready, etc. IOW, the movie theater allowed him to do everything he wanted to do as opposed to other public venues. It would be awfully hard to take people by surprise if you are dressed as a gun wielding armor clad lunatic in a public place. I think it was the theater, and not the movie per se, that mattered most to him. I think he'd decided upon the theater and the movie's premier and popularity was a bonus (packed theater).

I think JH could have selected the movie theater for all of the situational reasons you mentioned, PLUS for the movie per se.

 

[CARIIS]

There has been absolutely nothing else matching him to the Joker. Besides red hair, when the Joker is known for green hair.

The only thing tying him to the Joker is that one anecdote relayed by the police chief of NYC.

Shadow sent me this ..

But James Holmes didn’t burst into a screening of Happy Feet Two. To discuss the meaning and motives of his crime, of course we have to at least talk about why he might choose The Dark Knight Rises as a backdrop (and possibly a template) for whatever private fantasy he was enacting.....

the film industry is driven almost entirely by the fantasies and desires of young men, and what effect that kind of over-representation in pop culture might have on … the fantasies and desires of young men.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/20/aurora-shooting-dark-knight_n_1690851.html

 

[CARIIS]

Personally, I think he'd entertained many "how to" scenarios in his mind and settled upon the movie theater because, environmentally, it afforded him everything he would need - ability to keep low profile until he was ready to kill, large number of captive/unsuspecting victims, easy access in and out with limited escape routes for his victims, ability to blend in and change when ready, etc. IOW, the movie theater allowed him to do everything he wanted to do as opposed to other public venues. It would be awfully hard to take people by surprise if you are dressed as a gun wielding armor clad lunatic in a public place. I think it was the theater, and not the movie per se, that mattered most to him. I think he'd decided upon the theater and the movie's premier and popularity was a bonus (packed theater).

So, are you saying that if Mary Poppins had been playing, his tactical gear would have gone unnoticed? IMO, there are really neat parellels with so much of this...........

Is is summer, if numbers were his main consideration, there are quite a few blockbusters packing em in, IMO.

 

[DeadCat]

Personally, I think he'd entertained many "how to" scenarios in his mind

Nice post, Nemont. To go even further back reguarding motive, what was he trying to figure "how to" do? How to do what?

Let out frustration with the world?
Become famously notorious (is that redundant)?
Feel a sense of power where he otherwise felt little?
Get revenge?
Act out a delusion as The Joker?

 

[CARIIS]

There has been absolutely nothing else matching him to the Joker. Besides red hair, when the Joker is known for green hair.

The only thing tying him to the Joker is that one anecdote relayed by the police chief of NYC.

His hair was painted red, the same hair color of Heath Ledger's Joker at one point in 2008's "The Dark Knight."

his hair was painted red in an ode to the Batman villain’s sinister clown appearance —

there was the Heath Ledger death,………….. Aurora and Ledger each involved “the Joker,” or at least men who embodied the character and the qualities of the Batman comics’ villain.

Holmes' delusions are hardly the last of it, as it's been noted that the massacre was reminiscent of two moments from the groundbreaking comic book "The Dark Knight Returns."

The 1986 Batman story shows a crazed man with a gun who strolls into a *advertiser censored* theater, with the final panel of the scene depicting a TV reporter saying, "Three slain in Batman-inspired *advertiser censored* theater shoot-out…

In the same story, The Joker makes an appearance on a talk show during which he unleashes a bomb that emits deadly gas before telling the audience he's going to kill them all.

according to an Aurora Police Department press release, and subsequently told police that there might be explosives in both his home and his car. But the information he gave was only partially true, as there were no bombs in his car.

In the 2008 film "The Dark Knight," The Joker goes on a deadly rampage, allows himself to be arrested, and subsequently tells Batman there are explosives in two different locations. But the information he gives is only partially true, as he lies about which hostage is tied up at which location
.
http://www.nbcnewyork.com/entertain...e-Bears-Echoes-of-Batmans-Past-163205476.html

. A similar, now haunting, scene unfurls in "The Dark Knight Rises" when a masked villain leads a violent gang into a packed football stadium and deploys guns and explosives on the unsuspecting crowd.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2909299/posts

 

[newsleuther]

Shadow sent me this ..

But James Holmes didn’t burst into a screening of Happy Feet Two. To discuss the meaning and motives of his crime, of course we have to at least talk about why he might choose The Dark Knight Rises as a backdrop (and possibly a template) for whatever private fantasy he was enacting.....

the film industry is driven almost entirely by the fantasies and desires of young men, and what effect that kind of over-representation in pop culture might have on … the fantasies and desires of young men.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/20/aurora-shooting-dark-knight_n_1690851.html

A screening of Happy Feet 2 would not have a full theater at midnight.

 

[newsleuther]

So, are you saying that if Mary Poppins had been playing, his tactical gear would have gone unnoticed? IMO, there are really neat parellels with so much of this...........

Is is summer, if numbers were his main consideration, there are quite a few blockbusters packing em in, IMO.

There were several people who did not react immediately as they thought it was some stunt related to the movie...

 

[CARIIS]

A screening of Happy Feet 2 would not have a full theater at midnight.

Thats prob true !

 

[ciela]

Interesting!

There's quite a few different types of schizophrenia, and it's not uncommon for symptoms to be overlapping of different types/disorders.

Have you read about Schizoid Personality Disorder also? He instantly came to mind when reading about it in my mental health nursing book.

http://psychcentral.com/disorders/sx30.htm

I would start with r/o schizo-affective disorder with delusions. Couple that with substance abuse and you have a volatile combo. I don't see evidence of schizoid personality before he moved to aurora. He most likely began decompensating as a result of separation from his primary support system and failing his orals was the stressor that triggered the psychotic break. Just my humble take ....

 

[orora]

A high degree of planning went into preparation for the final act. I doubt the theater and movie was not a huge if not the primary precipative factor. Given Holmes original presentation on temporal illusion, and him saying he would follow that research, it is not a stretch to see him further his studies in that field. The question is, did he continue to research the specifics of temporal illusion all the while since 1996?

If so, the transference mechanism to complete the act may have required the use of an alternate personality as a vehicle to transport from one side of the illusion to the other. The McJoker character fits the bill like no other, the movie provides the stage. The research and training provide the instruction manual. The real joker (movie character) is absent from this movie leaving a hole, a role, to be filled. Looking inside this mind is unlike most others and I suspect the fbi and Fenton are going to have some very interesting conversations. This is very much like a temporal illusion brought to life. imo

Holmes would make a perfect study for someone...

Did the nature of the research disguise a pre-existing underlying problem? Did that allow the illusion to grow far bigger and carry on far longer than it normally would have?

 

[newsleuther]

A high degree of planning went into preparation for the final act. I doubt the theater and movie was not a huge if not the primary precipative factor. Given Holmes original presentation on temporal illusion, and him saying he would follow that research, it is not a stretch to see him further his studies in that field. The question is, did he continue to research the specifics of temporal illusion all the while since 1996?

If so, the transference mechanism to complete the act may have required the use of an alternate personality as a vehicle to transport from one side of the illusion to the other. The McJoker character fits the bill like no other, the movie provides the stage. The research and training provide the instruction manual. The real joker (movie character) is absent from this movie leaving a hole, a role, to be filled. Looking inside this mind is unlike most others and I suspect the fbi and Fenton are going to have some very interesting conversations. This is very much like a temporal illusion brought to life. imo

Holmes would make a perfect study for someone...

Did the nature of the research disguise a pre-existing underlying problem? Did that allow the illusion to grow far bigger and carry on far longer than it normally would have?

The McJoker? :waitasec:

Are you trying to say he was actively trying to portray a character that was a combination of Ronald McDonald and The Joker?

 

[waitin'4thewrld2chg]

:welcome4:

I would start with r/o schizo-affective disorder with delusions. Couple that with substance abuse and you have a volatile combo. I don't see evidence of schizoid personality before he moved to aurora. He most likely began decompensating as a result of separation from his primary support system and failing his orals was the stressor that triggered the psychotic break. Just my humble take ....

:welcome4:

 

[DeadCat]

The McJoker

I like it!

 

[CARIIS]

A high degree of planning went into preparation for the final act. I doubt the theater and movie was not a huge if not the primary precipative factor. Given Holmes original presentation on temporal illusion, and him saying he would follow that research, it is not a stretch to see him further his studies in that field. The question is, did he continue to research the specifics of temporal illusion all the while since 1996?

If so, the transference mechanism to complete the act may have required the use of an alternate personality as a vehicle to transport from one side of the illusion to the other. The McJoker character fits the bill like no other, the movie provides the stage. The research and training provide the instruction manual. The real joker (movie character) is absent from this movie leaving a hole, a role, to be filled. Looking inside this mind is unlike most others and I suspect the fbi and Fenton are going to have some very interesting conversations. This is very much like a temporal illusion brought to life. imo

Holmes would make a perfect study for someone...

Did the nature of the research disguise a pre-existing underlying problem? Did that allow the illusion to grow far bigger and carry on far longer than it normally would have?

I so agree with you!
The McJoker character fits the bill like no other, the movie provides the stage. The research and training provide the instruction manual. The real joker (movie character) is absent from this movie leaving a hole, a role, to be filled. Looking inside this mind is unlike most others and I suspect the fbi and Fenton are going to have some very interesting conversations. This is very much like a temporal illusion brought to life. imo

 

[CARIIS]

The McJoker? :waitasec:

Are you trying to say he was actively trying to portray a character that was a combination of Ronald McDonald and The Joker?

Joker in many of his early incarnations totally resemebled a clown!

 

[Nemont]

He'd never seen the movie before, it was a premier. He didn't know when anything was supposed to happen, so how could he have known when to inject himself into it? He didn't wait for anything to happen on screen…he left to "gear up" as soon as the movie started.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/nation/aurora-colorado-theater-shooting/

"Around midnight
The screening began. Holmes allegedly approached an emergency exit to the right of the screen, propped open the door and geared up.
Around 12:35 a.m.
Dressed in black SWAT gear, Holmes allegedly came back through the door, hurled two canisters of an unknown gas and opened fire on the audience. He allegedly walked up the aisle, firing as he went. The shots lasted 60-90 seconds. The bullets pierced the wall of Theater 8 next door.
12:39 a.m.
Police began receiving emergency calls.
90 seconds later
Officers arrived at the theater and almost immediately arrested Holmes, who was next to his white Hyundai outside a rear entrance to the theater."

 

[CARIIS]

James Holmes' doctor went to cops, ABC News says

Read more: James Holmes' doctor went to cops, ABC News says - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/breakingn...-doctor-went-cops-abc-news-says#ixzz22ppT01BH
Read The Denver Post's Terms of Use of its content: http://www.denverpost.com/termsofuse


http://abcnews.go.com/US/james-holm...iversity-police-weeks-movie/story?id=16943858

 

[orora]

Fenton had indeed caught on near the end imo. How long before this had Holmes dyed his hair? I think Holmes had a much greater interest in the study of temporal illusion than most any one knew. When a nerd, a top level nerd at that; people give your idea's more credence and leeway than others. When delving into the cutting edge research of any field, you will leave most of your peers behind. It is a little isolating and both sides let things go a bit further and longer than usual just to prove a premise one way or another. I think Holmes had secretly gone further out on a limb since 1996 that he should have backed off from a long time back. Just no one was smart enough to catch him at it until he reached this level.

He proved a point to someone with this act. Maybe Fenton..?
I called him the Mcjoker as a joke but also in that I believe him a disjointed combination of a whole lot of things and to differentiate him in his killing character from himself or any other joker we discuss. While in his character he performed this act. The Mcjoker had effectively seperated from Holmes internally at that moment. imo

I would like to know more on who he thought he was immediately after and for how long and who he is now without meds but... we get what we get..

The Dark Knight comic book with a red haired joker was out long before this event. Sure he shot up a *advertiser censored* theater but the similarities began. It was announced there would be no joker in this movie. The name of the movie alone for anyone with a joker/ heath ledger fixation would be irresistable. The Dark Knight Returns. After Ledger has died.

http://recycledfilm.net/the-joker/


Quote:
Heath Ledger’s portrayal of the Joker in The Dark Knight took the character to its absolute extreme. However, it was also the next logical step in the historical evolution of the character. The criminal clown had been growing progressively more twisted and nihilistic over the years. The Dark Knight portrayed him at his darkest and most malicious yet—not to mention most criminally successful.

Some of the strange Ronald McDonald clown pics and red hair and sub culture evil underpinnings may have had other attractions. Articles suggesting the joker was an ever evolving entity being brought to life by the latest actor to take up the mantle have been circulated. If Holmes was aware and had read things like ( attached below) while in a receptive mode, who knows what gears mesh in what ways in that sort of mind. He was seeking an oulet, a venue. What turned him to attack this target will come out sometime. This wouldn't do it for you or I but it may have been the casting call the "Mcjoker" had been waiting for most all his adult life.

from the comic book thread-

In conclusion, the film world is now left in the same predicament as in 1989. If someone were to use the Joker in a film ever again, they would have no choice but to totally re-invent him. Yet, after the differing versions given by Jack Nicholson and the late Heath Ledger, where else could they possibly take that character? Perhaps, some day, some one creative and talented enough will think up a new face for the Joker. Until then, fans are left with two of film history’s most

Ronald McDonald becoming the dark knight- story was from March 2011. From the comic thread also.

From 2011 article-
Ronald McDonald set to replace Heath Ledger’s Joker in Batman 3
http://urbandweeb.com/dweeb-news/ron...r-in-batman-3/

This part I consider as describing from inside his dillusion. From outside I believe some of the earlier descriptions are likely bang on. Like from above post-

I would start with r/o schizo-affective disorder with delusions.

Mcjoker?

Sorry I do not have the training or the wording to explain what I mean in proper terms. Its a word simili /acronym specifically for Holmes alternate personality.