IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #16

[MotherOcean]

Only thing I can remember is I thought I read it was purple and it looked like it had just been set down.... maybe TB said that because the contents were not strewn about and the straps were intact not broken like they could have been if there was a struggle.

Abben said that in the last press conference. He said there were no signs of any struggle, that neither the purse nor the bikes provided any signs of a struggle and that the purse looked like it has just been "set down".

 

[otto]

Never thought about helmets either. But thinking back at the video, even though it was fast and I could not tell if it was the girls or not, I don't remember it looking like there were helmets. Could definitely be wrong though. :what:

Maybe someone local knows whether bike helmets are mandatory for children in Evansdale ... they are here.

 

[Bootsctr]

You got it.

Fox smell musky, a little like skunk but without the unpleasant pungency. Hard to describe.

For whatever reason, scent that rises into the air like that doesn't seem to last anywhere near as long as scent on the ground does. After about 12 hours or so, it would be very unusual to find air scent in Iowa. I don't know if the same is true in more humid areas such as sub-tropical parts of Florida.

So, the point of all this is that if someone had carried the bicycles to the spot where they were found on Friday, any air scent from the bicycles would have dissipated by Tuesday when the Bloodhounds were put to work.

What the Bloodhounds most probably found was scent on the ground.

I have raised several squirrels. I know they are not in the same family as a fox, but they have a musky odor.... especially the males. Deer too. I imagine the odor would be much stronger under stress. Thank you so much for the good information.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Thank you for this response! Usually, when I return to a board after a long absense, I have to "wither on the vine" for about a week before peeps decide I'm not a dreaded troll.

Btw, I totally agree w/the above BBM para. Makes for a great quote (or sig. line for you?).

Now, re: "It depends on the dog." Okay, I understand. IIRC, you indicated in earlier post that the search dogs at the lake were w/the FBI which tells me that the dogs/trainers/handlers would be the opposite of amateurs. (And, yes, I fully realize that there are other variables we don't know about that would have caused the dogs to stop at the water's edge.)

Do you have an educated and/or gut feeling as to whether the girls disappeared by way of water or disappeared by way of land?

I don't think the girls disappeared by water.

While there has been a lot made of the LE request for a paddle boater who was on the lake that day to come forward, there hasn't been mention of any other boats.

Then again, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Maybe there were other boaters out that day who have already been interviewed by LE and have chosen (wisely, in my humble opinion) not to come forward in the media.

Mostly, assuming a boater means having to construct a whole bunch of assumptions more. Having the girls disappear by land or having the bicycles staged by the lake requires far fewer assumptions and I think we all know what old William d'Ockham had to say about that.

 

[nikb]

snipped by me --

I can't believe we've been posting and hashing for over a month and I have never read anyone ask about helmets!! I didn't even think about helmets!! And I never let my kids ride without helmets. This is why it's so great when new people come alongside us and participate in this discussion.

My 13 year old son is about 5'3" and weighs 140 pounds. He is HUGE, not overweight huge because he is beginning to look like a young man and he isn't really flabby. But, he is a big kid for his age and it's hard for me to imagine that Lyric was 145 pounds, but I guess it's possible. I think it's likely someone would think she is older than ten. <snipped for space>

I was thinking the same thing about the helmets. I just assumed they weren't wearing them. I live out in California where they are 'required' but I bet at least 50% of the kids take them off as soon as they're out of sight from whoever's watching them. I see a whole lot more helmets hooked to handlebars than I do on kids' heads.

I agree with you on Lyric's size as well. The weight listed might be off, but I really just think she's going to be a tall woman and is about to hit a growth spurt, and part of her weight might also be muscle. My husband consistently has people guess his weight as anywhere from 25-40 pounds under his actual weight, just because he's pretty muscular. I am SO frustrated I can't share the People article here and it's not online yet but the picture of Lyric hula-hooping really made me see her as a kid, maybe a kid in that "awkward' phase but a kid. She doesn't look super thin but also doesn't look overweight, just looks like a kid, and it does seem to be a recent pic.

Both girls have the most beautiful smiles. I so hope they're home soon so their families can share those smiles with them again.

 

[Jax49]

Lyric & Elizabeth to be covered on JVM -- on now on east coast -- interview with someone in the family.

 

[cindersoot]

Police stated early on that a purse and cell phone were found 10 feet east of the bikes, two feet away from the fence. "Purse" may have morphed into "backpack" during the last 4 weeks, but it was described as a purse.

Otto when a man sees a womans bag he calls it bag, purse, handbag, pocketbook. Lotes of young girls carry a certain purse that looks like a backpack, its a certain style. Not a big bulky book carrying backpack.

 

[Wishbone]

JVM will be talking about the girls on her show in just a little while if anyone is interested.

 

[MNDad]

On another note, looking for the purse info lead me to another interesting article/thought (BBM): http://wcfcourier.com/news/article_18411a90-cd32-11e1-a656-0019bb2963f4.html

The girls’ bicycles and a purse were found on a trail behind Meyers Lake on Friday, and on Tuesday residents streamed into the adjacent park to watch as the water receded as part of a drawdown that is part of search operations.​

How can you be "behind" a lake when a trail goes all the way around it? I'm sure I'm reading too much into it, it just struck me as strange to describe it that way. Behind relative to what? The auction house, Collins home, main entrance to the trail, the news studio...? It was described that the bikes were on the "South/Southest" part of the lake... does that fit with what we know about the location and gates? It seems to, I just wanted to get other thoughts.

I'm guessing that is just how they refer to it. It is at the edge of town so from the perspective of any other town location looking at the lake would be the front and the other side (south) would be the back side. In my opinion it is just a local reference.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Otto, your pictures never cease to amaze. Yes, I think it is possible the girls could have been grabbed just out of sight of their home. Coincidentally, there are a lot of white vehicles included in the pic you provided. It looks like a pretty busy area though and I think more chances of being seen.... but not impossible. I think it would have to be a van to get two bikes in or a truck because it would have to have happened quickly and definitely more than 1 perp. The bikes are staged. How do we explain the girls scents at the lake? A piece of the girls clothing drug about? I think SapphireSteel mentioned that possibility. GrainneDhu thoughts?

How common is the knowledge of scent trails laid by drag? Fox hunters know about it, tracking dog trainers should know about it but anyone in the general public who is not seriously into either activity? My gut feeling is that it's not well known.

Strictly in my own experience, people who think about attempting to foil a scent dog think in terms of covering up scent in much the way people often use air fresheners in their homes. I haven't run across a single non-dog person who thinks of adding more of the victim's scent.

If the perp did that, though, boy would it narrow the suspect pool nicely. It would mean that not only did they have knowledge of that one 400 foot stretch of trail that was relatively well concealed but they were seriously into one of two activities, neither of which has many people who are into them.

I think it's highly unlikely the perp used a drag.

 

[cindersoot]

I was thinking the same thing about the helmets. I just assumed they weren't wearing them. I live out in California where they are 'required' but I bet at least 50% of the kids take them off as soon as they're out of sight from whoever's watching them. I see a whole lot more helmets hooked to handlebars than I do on kids' heads.

I agree with you on Lyric's size as well. The weight listed might be off, but I really just think she's going to be a tall woman and is about to hit a growth spurt, and part of her weight might also be muscle. My husband consistently has people guess his weight as anywhere from 25-40 pounds under his actual weight, just because he's pretty muscular. I am SO frustrated I can't share the People article here and it's not online yet but the picture of Lyric hula-hooping really made me see her as a kid, maybe a kid in that "awkward' phase but a kid. She doesn't look super thin but also doesn't look overweight, just looks like a kid, and it does seem to be a recent pic.

Both girls have the most beautiful smiles. I so hope they're home soon so their families can share those smiles with them again.

Kids now days are much bigger then even in the 80's. All the hormones in the food. Okay Ill stop.

 

[TeenyTaurus]

But when the girls were caught on cctv they were riding away from that trail. Abben said "it is important to note." I don't think they believe the girls took that trail.

MOO

Unless, say, LE had some reason to believe (or proof) that the girls then went north up to Lafayette, then east to the Evansdale Nature Trail. Then it would be a straight, paved, unobstructed path to where the bikes ended up. Depending on the ACTUAL time of the video, easily doable (at about 12MPH or more) to coincide with TG's time approximation. Just my random calculations there...

 

[MNDad]

Maybe someone local knows whether bike helmets are mandatory for children in Evansdale ... they are here.

They are here too, but no one wears them. It is one of those non-enforced laws. My kids don't wear helmets probably because I don't. They have them but always leave them in the garage. I don't push the issue and alot of parents don't, even though we should.

 

[MotherOcean]

Thought I'd post the link to Crankycrankerson's Photobucket for anyone who hasn't seen it yet. CC has done a wonderful service to the girls and to all of us on their team. You can even click on the videos and watch the actual videos, not just screen shots.

http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/...izabeth Collins - Lyric Cook-Morrissey -IA-/

 

[smiley]

HLN's Jane Velez Mitchell is going to have something on the girls, said they would be talking with the aunt,, is there a connection between another girl missing from the same area, or to Meth, the drug.

 

[GrainneDhu]

On another note, looking for the purse info lead me to another interesting article/thought (BBM): http://wcfcourier.com/news/article_18411a90-cd32-11e1-a656-0019bb2963f4.html

The girls’ bicycles and a purse were found on a trail behind Meyers Lake on Friday, and on Tuesday residents streamed into the adjacent park to watch as the water receded as part of a drawdown that is part of search operations.​

How can you be "behind" a lake when a trail goes all the way around it? I'm sure I'm reading too much into it, it just struck me as strange to describe it that way. Behind relative to what? The auction house, Collins home, main entrance to the trail, the news studio...? It was described that the bikes were on the "South/Southest" part of the lake... does that fit with what we know about the location and gates? It seems to, I just wanted to get other thoughts.

I think they were talking about the position of the town in relationship to the position of the lake. If you start from anywhere you mentioned in Evansdale and look towards the lake, there's no more Evansdale beyond the lake because it is bordered by I-380.

 

[MNDad]

Kids now days are much bigger then even in the 80's. All the hormones in the food. Okay Ill stop.

You don't have to actually stop because you are correct. I have read that young females are developing sooner because of the hormone enhancements in dairy to produce more milk.

 

[Bootsctr]

I have a possible 'paddleboat' scenario:

Some perps are hanging out at an 'empty' house, getting high, watching *advertiser censored*...etc.

They 'borrow' a paddleboat from a neighbor and go out on the lake. They see 2 little girls throwing rocks into the water. They talk to each other for a bit, and then ask the girls if they want to take a ride.

Sure they do. So the perps say " come back in 15 minutes and just park your bikes on the trail and meet us on the jetty over there...

Nobody would ever actually take the girls on the boat or make their escape on the boat at all. They would just 'promise' the girls a ride. They would lure them with a ride, but never get that far.

This makes sense too and would explain the girls' scents being up to the water. I thought one of the family members said the dogs actually led away to the wooded area at one point.

One more question, were the purse and bikes found at the same time?

 

[GrainneDhu]

I have a possible 'paddleboat' scenario:

Some perps are hanging out at an 'empty' house, getting high, watching *advertiser censored*...etc.

They 'borrow' a paddleboat from a neighbor and go out on the lake. They see 2 little girls throwing rocks into the water. They talk to each other for a bit, and then ask the girls if they want to take a ride.

Sure they do. So the perps say " come back in 15 minutes and just park your bikes on the trail and meet us on the jetty over there...

Nobody would ever actually take the girls on the boat or make their escape on the boat at all. They would just 'promise' the girls a ride. They would lure them with a ride, but never get that far.

How does that fit with Sandy Breault saying that the hypothetical paddle boat person they wanted to talk to was not a suspect?

 

[Bootsctr]

Thought I'd post the link to Crankycrankerson's Photobucket for anyone who hasn't seen it yet. CC has done a wonderful service to the girls and to all of us on their team. You can even click on the videos and watch the actual videos, not just screen shots.

http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/...izabeth Collins - Lyric Cook-Morrissey -IA-/

I second this. Information from the beginning to the most current. Lots of good pictures, some that I cannot find online any where but at Cranky's. :rocker: