Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #37

[linette]

Absolutely Liadan. I don't believe for a second the liar is having a breakdown. He would have researched the symptoms and off he went. Evil b*****d

As I mentioned earlier, I think if he is having a breakdown that it's more to do with him losing his freedom and all of the people who he has used to 'prop' himself up over the years. People like him need/use people at their expense to make themselves feel better. He now has nobody to bounce off so to speak. There isn't anyone saying "Wow, you're so good." and patting him on the back. No women to run to when the going gets tough. He wouldn't know what the heck's going on now. He is now stuck in there with only himself for company, and alone with his pathetic thoughts.
If he regrets killing Allison then I think it'd be because of the way it has changed HIS own life, not anyone else's. I think he would be quite happy with what he'd done if he wasn't being charged with it, and was never under suspicion.
So, the way I see it, he could be having a breakdown, but not for the right reasons. It's always been and will be about HIM !!

 

[Mani]

There may be a third possibility - among others that we may not know about yet. If Detectives believe that she floated to the position where she was found, then the force of the high tide that weekend could have dislodged her from higher up the bank under the bridge, then as the water receded, the body embedded in the mud at the high tide water mark. We learned from MSM reporting that she was found with her face in the mud which seems to indicate the body had been floating in water and was embedded in that position as the water receded. [Earlier in the Thread posters have noted that a body floats head down in water]. Just thoughts - keeping an open mind. My opinion only, not fact.

Good point and yes bodies do float with the head hanging down apparently. Fuskier I haven't heard about the face in the mud. Did msm report that early on? I don't remember reading that but if that has been reported, it would support the discussion about the body in the mud versus up on the bank etc. MOO

 

[minni]

Thanks Wakeskate, that makes sense and I agree, its not important in the scheme of things.

Fuskier, This idea you have has been how I felt mostly since the beginning. I thought she had been left under the bridge up high, and until the torrent came, the high tide mark never reached her. There was a lot of vegetation there prior to her being found which would have hid her in my opinion. The other reason I felt that way was because, if she came down from upstream, why stop under the bridge? however if she came down from the embankmnet, the water would have sort of dislodged and lifted her as it rose, then PULLED her slowly, as the tide dropped, leaving her resting in the mud at low tide. Dpes this make sense? it seems more plausible to me.

BUT, although i still see this motion of water being more plausible than jsut ruching downstream, I feel that Doc's suggestion that she was dropped down the embankment just prior to the entry of LUC into Kholo feels very right too. It would involve the same water motion as you described, being tugged by the extreme high tide of the days prior, as the levels reached her and pulled her down.
I hope that makes sense.

On this topic, I heard this morning that the canoeist wasnt a random person, but a police water person (cant remember the initials maritime something??) anyway, they were searching there because they had his gps data, and followed his movements.
I watched a show last week where a man who killed his daughter was set up by the police to believe the 'killer' was going to be caught trying to move her body from a shallow grave to a deeper one. He fell for it and went to move her body, they didnt need to follow him..they jast wathced and waited for his gps to tell them where he went, then found the sites and got him. I think i mentioned it last week.
Anyway, I am positive our own QPS would have done this too? I havent heard this before but of course they would have at least tried.

 

[Curiousasacat]

Good point and yes bodies do float with the head hanging down apparently. Fuskier I haven't heard about the face in the mud. Did msm report that early on? I don't remember reading that but if that has been reported, it would support the discussion about the body in the mud versus up on the bank etc. MOO

I don't remember the MSM reporting her face down either,if this was the case it could dispel the rumour of the plastic bag over Allisons face as this rumour came about as the body appeared to have a white face.

Would be a great time for Hawkins to pop back for a visit. Just sayin.

 

[Maigret]

Thanks Wakeskate, that makes sense and I agree, its not important in the scheme of things.

Fuskier, This idea you have has been how I felt mostly since the beginning. I thought she had been left under the bridge up high, and until the torrent came, the high tide mark never reached her. There was a lot of vegetation there prior to her being found which would have hid her in my opinion. The other reason I felt that way was because, if she came down from upstream, why stop under the bridge? however if she came down from the embankmnet, the water would have sort of dislodged and lifted her as it rose, then PULLED her slowly, as the tide dropped, leaving her resting in the mud at low tide. Dpes this make sense? it seems more plausible to me.

BUT, although i still see this motion of water being more plausible than jsut ruching downstream, I feel that Doc's suggestion that she was dropped down the embankment just prior to the entry of LUC into Kholo feels very right too. It would involve the same water motion as you described, being tugged by the extreme high tide of the days prior, as the levels reached her and pulled her down.
I hope that makes sense.

On this topic, I heard this morning that the canoeist wasnt a random person, but a police water person (cant remember the initials maritime something??) anyway, they were searching there because they had his gps data, and followed his movements.
I watched a show last week where a man who killed his daughter was set up by the police to believe the 'killer' was going to be caught trying to move her body from a shallow grave to a deeper one. He fell for it and went to move her body, they didnt need to follow him..they jast wathced and waited for his gps to tell them where he went, then found the sites and got him. I think i mentioned it last week.
Anyway, I am positive our own QPS would have done this too? I havent heard this before but of course they would have at least tried.

WOW!!! GBC's gps data ! What an amazing thing , no wonder he is breaking down if they have that and it puts him there it's bye bye :jail:

 

[Curiousasacat]

Respectfully snipped


On this topic, I heard this morning that the canoeist wasnt a random person, but a police water person (cant remember the initials maritime something??) anyway, they were searching there because they had his gps data, and followed his movements.


Rumour squasher two.

GPS data yet the defence claim they had no evidence he left the house?
Oh geez I wish we could get some more information and facts.

 

[minni]

I can see the breakdown either way. He is bunging it on to either stay in protective custody or more likely he finally is realising his goose is cooked and is looking for the best possible outcome FOR HIMSELF, by maybe setting up a breakdown, a 'I cant pretend anymore, it was a terrible terrible accident, I didnt mean to and I panciked' I cant go on like this anymore' blah blah bleeping blah

or the other option is he really is having a breakdown as his little world has fallen apart, he has no one to tell him he is mr perfect anymore, no one to stroke his ego, no one to control. This is the type of emotions that narcissistic people have when they are in his position, from what I understand. They are good at expressing and feeling emotion as long as its about themselves. when everything turns to poo, they totally fall apart, or so I have heard

 

[Curiousasacat]

WOW!!! GBC's gps data ! What an amazing thing , no wonder he is breaking down if they have that and it puts him there it's bye bye :jail:

Yes I can see finding out that information causing him to breakdown.
3rd Sep changed plea is my bet.

 

[minni]

Respectfully snipped


On this topic, I heard this morning that the canoeist wasnt a random person, but a police water person (cant remember the initials maritime something??) anyway, they were searching there because they had his gps data, and followed his movements.


Rumour squasher two.

GPS data yet the defence claim they had no evidence he left the house?
Oh geez I wish we could get some more information and facts.

I know, and probably just rumour...but really, they MUST have pulled the navman's and gone over everything surely!

 

[minni]

also, there may be evidence that the car was driven out there, it doesnt prove she didnt drive it out there? remember all the rumour at the beginning that she followed TM and GBC to the scout camp?

 

[DrWatson]

Fuskier, This idea you have has been how I felt mostly since the beginning. I thought she had been left under the bridge up high, and until the torrent came, the high tide mark never reached her. There was a lot of vegetation there prior to her being found which would have hid her in my opinion. The other reason I felt that way was because, if she came down from upstream, why stop under the bridge? however if she came down from the embankment, the water would have sort of dislodged and lifted her as it rose, then PULLED her slowly, as the tide dropped, leaving her resting in the mud at low tide. Dpes this make sense? it seems more plausible to me.

I doubt that Minni, with all due respect. The idea that the water gently rose then gently fell is wrong - it ROARED down those creeks in a flood surge. The pressure and flow involved when the creeks do that is enormous. And you can see some of the debris that got washed down the creek even now, including large tree trunks. If she had simply been placed under the bridge, and the flow and the height of the tide reached her, then she would have washed out into the main river. But if she came down in the flow, from somewhere further up the creek, and the water level was well up above the normal high tide mark, she could easily have just snagged up on those bushes that would have been underwater, and then as the tide receded (those creek floods drop very quickly) and as her body weight gradually came into play (she would have been almost weightless while in the water), she could then have simply rolled down from those bushes to where she was found.

BUT, although i still see this motion of water being more plausible than just rushing downstream, I feel that Doc's suggestion that she was dropped down the embankment just prior to the entry of LUC into Kholo feels very right too. It would involve the same water motion as you described, being tugged by the extreme high tide of the days prior, as the levels reached her and pulled her down.
I hope that makes sense.

On this topic, I heard this morning that the canoeist wasnt a random person, but a police water person (cant remember the initials maritime something??) anyway, they were searching there because they had his gps data, and followed his movements.
I watched a show last week where a man who killed his daughter was set up by the police to believe the 'killer' was going to be caught trying to move her body from a shallow grave to a deeper one. He fell for it and went to move her body, they didnt need to follow him..they jast wathced and waited for his gps to tell them where he went, then found the sites and got him. I think i mentioned it last week.
Anyway, I am positive our own QPS would have done this too? I havent heard this before but of course they would have at least tried.

I have doubts about this for a couple of reasons: why would the police send a kayaker, who could only search the mouth of the creek? Surely they would send a car or van, with people who could search ALL the surroundings? After all, they could see under the bridge by approaching from the land, but they wouldn't be able to see the land by approaching from the water. Also, I really doubt that they had his GPS data. First, I'm not sure his iPhone may not have recorded that data if he had location services turned off. But mainly, you may recall that his iPhone data only became available the day prior to his (delayed) bail application.

No - I think the kayaker was just a random kayaker who happened to nose up into the creek. Of course, I could be wrong, too - .....

 

[Mystique75]

The gps data tells where his vehicle has been, not where the owner has necessarily taken it. So the defense team are basically saying it's circumstantial.

Good news to hear that they have the data, though!

 

[linette]

I can see the breakdown either way. He is bunging it on to either stay in protective custody or more likely he finally is realising his goose is cooked and is looking for the best possible outcome FOR HIMSELF, by maybe setting up a breakdown, a 'I cant pretend anymore, it was a terrible terrible accident, I didnt mean to and I panciked' I cant go on like this anymore' blah blah bleeping blah

or the other option is he really is having a breakdown as his little world has fallen apart, he has no one to tell him he is mr perfect anymore, no one to stroke his ego, no one to control. This is the type of emotions that narcissistic people have when they are in his position, from what I understand. They are good at expressing and feeling emotion as long as its about themselves. when everything turns to poo, they totally fall apart, or so I have heard

Yep !! His goose is not only cooked... it's starting to burn. Somebody turn up the heat in that oven!! :floorlaugh:

 

[linette]

The gps data tells where his vehicle has been, not where the owner has necessarily taken it. So the defense team are basically saying it's circumstantial.

Good news to hear that they have the data, though!

I can see it now "Somebody {perhaps that stranger that was hanging around} stole his phone, and then killed his wife." Stroke of bad luck there, Gerard!!

 

[linette]

So it was you who left her there?

:floorlaugh: :floorlaugh: :floorlaugh: :floorlaugh: You have just said what I was going to write earlier...... now the truth is coming out. So GBC was innocent afterall!! :floorlaugh: ... are the police watching this????

 

[minni]

I doubt that Minni, with all due respect. The idea that the water gently rose then gently fell is wrong - it ROARED down those creeks in a flood surge. The pressure and flow involved when the creeks do that is enormous. And you can see some of the debris that got washed down the creek even now, including large tree trunks. If she had simply been placed under the bridge, and the flow and the height of the tide reached her, then she would have washed out into the main river. But if she came down in the flow, from somewhere further up the creek, and the water level was well up above the normal high tide mark, she could easily have just snagged up on those bushes that would have been underwater, and then as the tide receded (those creek floods drop very quickly) and as her body weight gradually came into play (she would have been almost weightless while in the water), she could then have simply rolled down from those bushes to where she was found.



I have doubts about this for a couple of reasons: why would the police send a kayaker, who could only search the mouth of the creek? Surely they would send a car or van, with people who could search ALL the surroundings? After all, they could see under the bridge by approaching from the land, but they wouldn't be able to see the land by approaching from the water. Also, I really doubt that they had his GPS data. First, I'm not sure his iPhone may not have recorded that data if he had location services turned off. But mainly, you may recall that his iPhone data only became available the day prior to his (delayed) bail application.

No - I think the kayaker was just a random kayaker who happened to nose up into the creek. Of course, I could be wrong, too - .....

Morning Doc, No, I meant it roared down, but gently fell, after the rains subsided. so if she was up high, and the torrent reached roughly to the level where she was, it could have pulled at her and as it slowly receded maybe tugged her with it. I see your point that she could have been up high in the torrent, been stopped by one of the many shrubs that were there. It makes a lot of sense actually. and i have seen the stumps there where they cut them all down after she was found. As I type this I can imagine quite clearly with the water levels so high, that she was stopped up in those shrubs. sad

Ok, in regards to the gps, I dont mean on his phone, I meant in the cars, it seems likely he would have had a nav man? especially in his line of business?

re the torrents...i get it now, even if the level only reached the tips of her feet, it still would have grabbed on easily and taken her into the flow...I just wasnt picturing it that way. So still, close to the mouth of LUC sounds very likely

 

[minni]

The gps data tells where his vehicle has been, not where the owner has necessarily taken it. So the defense team are basically saying it's circumstantial.

Good news to hear that they have the data, though!

its just I rumour I heard this morning, I dont know how true it is, I hope it is true though

 

[Mountain Misst]

Absolutely Liadan. I don't believe for a second the liar is having a breakdown. He would have researched the symptoms and off he went. Evil b*****d

One concession - he doesn't have access to Doctor Google while in the slammer.

 

[wakeskate]

On this topic, I heard this morning that the canoeist wasnt a random person, but a police water person (cant remember the initials maritime something??) anyway, they were searching there because they had his gps data, and followed his movements.

Before this one gets too out of control, what was the source of this information?
Is it just a local rumour or from someone in the know? (MSM, SES, police etc)
Not saying we should ignore it as I too would expect something of value pulled from either of the GPS's in the car. They were both new looking cars and probably had GPS. I know my GPS logs my path, but I think I have to turn it on.

Oh the topic of local rumours, I did hear from a friend (local to the area but no associations to this site) about the chains from Coles. I guess the rumour mill is still very strong in the real world even in these days of internet.

 

[marlywings]

A reminder about Summer's post on page 1....

Please do not discuss rumors. Although SOME rumors turn out to be true in the end, there are also those that are just that 'rumor,' and tend to derail the threads. Until there's a 'link' to verify a circumstance, we ask you do NOT post rumors.

If locals wish to be verified (as local residents with insider information), then we would be able to discuss, unless the information might jeopardize the investigation or case.

Yes, in past threads there had been rumors discussed. Going forward, no rumors. Locals please refrain from posting any insider information unless it can be linked to a valid source, or until you become a verified local member

Clarifying what to do about rumors - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community