IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #19

[TeenyTaurus]

Didn't Lyric have a baseball/softball game at the baseball fields near Deerwood Park the night before? Has anyone run across any confirmation of such in the MSM? Could she have met someone there who may have led her to Meyers Lake the next day? Just a thought...

 

[otto]

I simply can't keep up with the thread ... is there any new news other than the police request to come forward regarding [intuitive] weirdos and eye witnesses on a couple of roads between Cornbelt Atuctions, near the home, and the lake?

I lost the link posted on about page 46 or 7 to photos of vigils and so on ... anyone have it handy.

 

[otto]

Here it is ... thanks to the moderators ...

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/article/20120914/NEWS01/309140045/1039/LIFE/?odyssey=nav|head

 

[TeenyTaurus]

I simply can't keep up with the thread ... is there any new news other than the police request to come forward regarding weirdos and eye witnesses on a couple of roads between Cornbelt Atuctions, near the home, and the lake?

I lost the link posted on about page 46 or 7 to photos of vigils and so on ... anyone have it handy.

http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...cle_e5ee619c-fe0f-11e1-a74a-001a4bcf887a.html
This one, maybe?

NVM, you got the one you were looking for.

 

[nikb]

Didn't Lyric have a baseball/softball game at the baseball fields near Deerwood Park the night before? Has anyone run across any confirmation of such in the MSM? Could she have met someone there who may have led her to Meyers Lake the next day? Just a thought...

I thought it was Elizabeth who had the game. Haven't been able to find the link again though (yet).

 

[superbee]

this is a very good theory, a person with a boat would not create any suspicion being there, sick thought as to how "easy" someone could pull this off!

Sorry, I don't have a link, but I remember there was a young boy fishing, who said he had been there 'a long time' but had not seen 2 young girls. I wonder if he saw a fishing boat on the lake, or better yet, one being launched and/or being taken out of the water? Because he was fishing himself, I hope the boy would notice a boat.

 

[GrainneDhu]

I thought the dogs always track from oldest to newest scent? As in freshest scent led the dogs away from the jetty and into the woods.

Grainne, your expertise would be very helpful. TIA!

You are correct. Dogs, both by instinct and training, are supposed to track from oldest scent left to newest.

Doesn't mean that a dog can't or won't make a mistake. But for two high level dogs to make the exact same mistake seems unlikely to me.

 

[otto]

Sorry, I don't have a link, but I remember there was a young boy fishing, who said he had been there 'a long time' but had not seen 2 young girls. I wonder if he saw a fishing boat on the lake, or better yet, one being launched and/or being taken out of the water? Because he was fishing himself, I hope the boy would notice a boat.

Yes, a child was fishing near the parking lot where the cyclist made his phone call at 12:27. If the girls were cycling on the Evansdale Nature Trail heading East, across the lake and behind the Island, it's not surprising that he didn't see them. There's no way that someone at the parking lot could recognize anyone on the other side of the park. Asking him if he saw bikes is probably the best anyone could do from that distance.

I'm sure a child would notice a boat being launched next to where he was fishing.

 

[GrainneDhu]

I think it's real interesting that the skate park is so out in the open and that you can see a fair amount of traffic passing by on Gilbert in the video. You can also see (in the video) how close and sort of deserted the trail is at that point.

Thanks for both of these posts.

I can see why Grandma Cook may have driven by the skatepark during the initial hour she searched for the girls and didn't get out of her vehicle because she could see the entire skatepark from her car.

I think it's clear it didn't occur to her that the girls may have been on the nature trail.

Poor lady, I think this has added 15 years to her.

 

[Confusion]

You are correct. Dogs, both by instinct and training, are supposed to track from oldest scent left to newest.

Doesn't mean that a dog can't or won't make a mistake. But for two high level dogs to make the exact same mistake seems unlikely to me.

I haven't had personal experience with SAR dogs, but I've know many hunting dogs. The way it was explained to me is that a dog will always look for the freshest scent, which would mean tracking from oldest to newest, but also means they wouldn't be likely to pick up a 2 day old trail if there was a 1 day old trail in the same area. It also means they wouldn't (at least not usually) follow a trail in circles if the 'prey' had eventually broken off and gone a different way. Is that correct, or do these dogs actually follow a trail exactly?

 

[nikb]

I thought it was Elizabeth who had the game. Haven't been able to find the link again though (yet).

Finally found the link. http://www.kwwl.com/story/19115767/elizabeth-collins-softball-team-honors-missing-cousins. A short snip from the article:

EVANSDALE (KWWL) -
The outpouring of support for Elizabeth Collins and Lyric Cook continued Wednesday night. Hundreds of families gathered at Deerwood Park in Evansdale, where Elizabeth's softball team received trophies for a first place finish in their league.

It was a celebratory mood, but they all knew someone is special is not standing with them.

"Elizabeth was a really nice friend. She was nice to me," said teammate <modsnip>.

"I hope they find her and she's alright and hope she's really safe," said teammate <modsnip>.

The ceremony began with a moment of silence, honoring both Elizabeth and Lyric.

The last time the girls and coaches saw Elizabeth was on the same field, the night before she and Lyric went missing.
​

 

[Bootsctr]

I'm a little behind on the thread so apologies if this has already been answered.

Bikes were banned from the skate park because the "pegs" on some bikes were damaging the ramps.

The Evansdale Park and Recreation Commission established a zero tolerance policy last month for graffiti, litter and damage to ramps at the park. Bikes, which poked holes in ramps from pegs and handle bars, were banned.

BBM

http://wcfcourier.com/news/local/article_75fe69a4-9190-581d-ab6b-91f524651dc8.html

Thank you Marnie. I appreciate your post and the link! Good to know that bikes had been banned.

 

[GrainneDhu]

I haven't had personal experience with SAR dogs, but I've know many hunting dogs. The way it was explained to me is that a dog will always look for the freshest scent, which would mean tracking from oldest to newest, but also means they wouldn't be likely to pick up a 2 day old trail if there was a 1 day old trail in the same area. It also means they wouldn't (at least not usually) follow a trail in circles if the 'prey' had eventually broken off and gone a different way. Is that correct, or do these dogs actually follow a trail exactly?

I am not a SAR expert, just a dog trainer with some experience in tracking.

It all depends on how the dog is trained. SAR dogs that are trained to find live victims are trained to encourage them to use shortcuts, like the hunting dogs you mentioned, if that will get them to the victim faster. They will shift between air scenting and ground scenting, whichever works best to get them to the live victim fastest.

Dogs can also be taught to follow the trail exactly; footprint to footprint. Dogs that are used for evidence collection, for instance, are trained this way because cutting the corner on a track could mean missing the piece of evidence the tracklayer dropped in the corner that was shortcut.

There's a place for both styles of training, it all depends on the reason a dog was called for and what the goal of the exercise is.

 

[nursebeeme]

SAR question and answer thread

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125709&highlight=SAR+questions

bumping up the SAR q and a thread. You can ask verified SAR questions about the fbi dogs here (there are also some answers there that already kind of fit this case)

 

[dotr]

http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...cle_e5ee619c-fe0f-11e1-a74a-001a4bcf887a.html
This one, maybe?

NVM, you got the one you were looking for.

From the link, this line still resonates.Sounds almost like LE think it is someone who presents as a "respectable", or "wouldn't harm a fly" type person.

"Whoever abducted the girls is known by many people, although their relatives, neighbors and co-workers may not think they are capable of such a thing, the sheriff’s office said"

 

[Sunlight]

From the link, this line still resonates.Sounds almost like LE think it is someone who presents as a "respectable", or "wouldn't harm a fly" type person.

"Whoever abducted the girls is known by many people, although their relatives, neighbors and co-workers may not think they are capable of such a thing, the sheriff&#8217;s office said"

Strikes me as pretty definitive. They could have said, "may be", or "could be"; but they are saying "is".

So, they are looking for someone who "arrived" and "departed" the "area" by vehicle, who fits the above description, i.e., someone no one might suspect of being "capable" of such a thing.

So turning that around, what about a person would make people think they are capable? Think of what that would look like and then take the opposite view.

MOO

ETA: So what kind of person "known by many people" would one consider not "capable" of abducting the girls? Interesting.

 

[dotr]

Also posted this link in cold case of Mattie Restine and Patty Pritz.

I certainly hope this case is solved much quicker than this one, but thinking of how this perp. then 17 years old, was protected by his Mother until she told the truth on her deathbed.He was a neighbour, this is how he tried to lure the girls, one "got away".

http://www.thestar.com/news/world/a...-cold-case-killing-of-7-year-old-girl-in-1957
" The star witness was Chapman, the friend who had been playing with Ridulph on Dec. 3, 1957, on the corner of Archie Place and Center Cross Street.

She said a young man calling himself &#8220;Johnny&#8221; approached, asking if they liked dolls and offering piggyback rides. After Ridulph ran home to get her doll, Chapman went to grab mittens. When she returned, her friend and the man were gone"

 

[dotr]

I simply can't keep up with the thread ... is there any new news other than the police request to come forward regarding [intuitive] weirdos and eye witnesses on a couple of roads between Cornbelt Atuctions, near the home, and the lake?

I lost the link posted on about page 46 or 7 to photos of vigils and so on ... anyone have it handy.

Looked, but cannot find in this link or the others where LE is looking for weirdos intuitives and eye witnesses?.Does that mean they are looking for strange or unusual persons seen or known in the neighbourhood?

 

[Sunlight]

What kind of person would the girls trust enough to risk getting in trouble over? Someone they would trust more than they would fear getting in trouble? Someone like a GMA? A GPA? An authority figure? A teacher? A preacher? A coach? A park ranger? A policeman? A fireman? A woman? Someone they have a crush on? MOO

 

[SailorMoon]

I just don't know....how the heck 2 girls can just disappear. Poor grandma, sounds like she had her hands full and the girls...where are the girls????