IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #19

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Otto, Do you think if this indeed happened that the person prearranged the meeting?
Do you think this is the person that LE thinks was in the lake that day?
What happened after the boat ride if this is right?
Kidnapping? Going across state lines?
Only my thoughts and ?s/

I don`t think there was any boat ride, but I do wonder if the lure was the promise of a boat ride. I do think that someone suggested that the girls go to the location where the purse and bikes were found. It`s simply too unusual that the girls happened to be at that secluded location at the exact moment that a pedophile was at the same secluded location.
 
IMO I really don't think she was exposed to those characters much. She's lived with G'ma most of her life, I think.

True, but she did witness the attack by her father on her mother.... that had to be quite traumatic.
 
I don`t think there was any boat ride, but I do wonder if the lure was the promise of a boat ride. I do think that someone suggested that the girls go to the location where the purse and bikes were found. It`s simply too unusual that the girls happened to be at that secluded location at the exact moment that a pedophile was at the same secluded location.

Gotcha.....no actual boat ride but maybe a promise of one.

I keep thinking -hoping someone saw the girls walking, talking, leaving with the abductor.

Surely there were more than 3-4 people in the park that day. :waitasec:

imoo
 
Sorry to quote myself - wanted to add a quick note.



I realized my post came across that someone with some sort of actual physical impairment couldn't be responsible for an abduction, and I don't believe that. I think it'd be pretty rare and I also don't think it's what happened here, but certainly a person legitimately in a wheelchair or whatever could abduct kids similar to what I described a faker doing above.

I'm sorry you faced such rudeness when using your wheelchair.
I swear to jebees people can be rude beyond belief.
 
Okay ... sorry for dropping so many maps on the page, but I'm trying to think this through as I'm looking at the maps.

At this point, I'm becoming fairly convinced that the girls arrived at the lake by bike and that for some reason, they rode their bikes to the opposite side of the lake, where they parked the bikes, set down the purse and waited for someone. The repeated mention of a paddle boat makes me wonder if they talked with someone at some point ... someone that implied to the girls that they could have a ride if they met him at the gate. Regardless of which path they took to the drainage pipe, I'm fairly convinced that the perp used Arbutus/Maiden Lane to leave with the girls.

That is what I believe too.
 
The fake injury worked well for Ted Bundy, unfortunately, so I don't see why a wheelchair wouldn't work equally well.

Of course, to my knowledge, Bundy never abducted two girls at one time.

Yeah, I definitely agree that it could work. My rant was more about people who fake needing a wheelchair, or the creating this misconception that a large number of people in wheelchairs are faking it.

Usually the fakers are doing so for much less evil purposes than abducting two little girls (parking spots, cutting into lines, discounted amusement park tickets, etc.), but I certainly think a scenario like this could work to get two kind hearted little girls into a van. :(
 
Why would a kidnapper need to back in Evansdale later in the day. It seems to me that the person that did this is familiar with the area, but there`s no reason to assume that this person lives in Evansdale. I see no reason to assume that the person that did this has any connection to the family. More than 1000 people searched on the two weekends after the kidnapping ... one more or less person wouldn`t exactly be noticed.
Otto, that is just part of my theory. Sure, there is no reason to believe the person lives in Evansdale, but I believe he/she/they live in Evansdale. Again, no proof that they do but again, no proof that they don't.

I believe the person(s) responsible for taking Lyric and Elizabeth is someone so well known to at least one girl's family that his/her/their absence from the initial search would be noticed. IMO.

Again, not necessarily a family member, just someone whose unexpected absence from the initial search would be obvious. For instance, I am an honorary aunt to my best friend's kids. They spend as much time at my house as they do in their own. If one of them ever went missing, I would be right there with the family, and I think (hope) my absence would be noticed. JMO.

I think my comment about the search in my prior post was misleading. I should have specified that I meant the initial search, not the much larger subsequent searches.
 
Yeah, I definitely agree that it could work. My rant was more about people who fake needing a wheelchair, or the creating this misconception that a large number of people in wheelchairs are faking it.

Usually the fakers are doing so for much less evil purposes than abducting two little girls (parking spots, cutting into lines, discounted amusement park tickets, etc.), but I certainly think a scenario like this could work to get two kind hearted little girls into a van. :(

It sure could work, in fact I might even be taken in by someone like that if my guard was down.
 
With a weapon, even the proverbial 98 pound weakling could get the girls into a vehicle. Or someone with physical disabilities, even someone who uses a wheelchair.

I bet very few people would suspect someone they know has to use a wheelchair. I've discovered in the last 7 years that people in wheelchairs are often just about invisible.

Anyone visited a relative or a friend in a nursing home lately? Ours had a couple of child molesters and an orderly who was fired because of sexual misconduct with a patient.
 
I'm sorry you faced such rudeness when using your wheelchair.
I swear to jebees people can be rude beyond belief.

My mom needs a wheelchair when we go shopping, and she refuses to go when the shops are crowded. She gets bumped, glared at and feels very uncomfortable. Not by everyone, of course, but often enough that she notices it.
 
These families do not appear to be so wealthy that someone would kidnap their children to extort money, so it`s obvious to me that this kidnapping had nothing to do with money.

Furthermore, there has been no demand from kidnappers for money.

I agree, the only thing about the money is that the reward has been sticking with me since it seems pretty high. Not that you can put a price on the girls! But in a couple other cases where I saw reward money it was quite a bit less than $50k.

If the purpose was money, is someone out there waiting for the amount to go up more? Are they still trying to figure out how to claim the money without getting caught? I don't know how or if someone could know in advance that a fairly high reward would be offered but maybe. Or maybe money wasn't the original motive but whatever happened is done, the reward info came out, and the person's trying to figure out how to claim the reward without getting charged/caught? I dunno, that's probably pretty out there.
 
BBM - unless that one person would be quite obviously missing. Someone who the families for example would know should be out there searching. I'm not implying anyone in particular but say a family member or someone close to the family wasn't there to search. That might be noticed even among the 1000+ people.

Thanks, that's exactly my point. Someone whose absence would be questioned, IMO.
 
Otto, that is just part of my theory. Sure, there is no reason to believe the person lives in Evansdale, but I believe he/she/they live in Evansdale. Again, no proof that they do but again, no proof that they don't.

I believe the person(s) responsible for taking Lyric and Elizabeth is someone so well known to at least one girl's family that his/her/their absence from the initial search would be noticed. IMO.

Again, not necessarily a family member, just someone whose unexpected absence from the initial search would be obvious. For instance, I am an honorary aunt to my best friend's kids. They spend as much time at my house as they do in their own. If one of them ever went missing, I would be right there with the family, and I think (hope) my absence would be noticed. JMO.

I think my comment about the search in my prior post was misleading. I should have specified that I meant the initial search, not the much larger subsequent searches.

I can`t imagine that Elizabeth`s parents knew someone that would kidnap their daughter. Since Lyric lived with her grandmother, I can`t imagine that the grandmother knew someone that would kidnap her granddaughter. Since Elizabeth lived in Evansdale and Lyric lived in Waterloo, I`m at a loss as to where they would have met the same nasty person that would know the entire extended family and still kidnap the cousins. That simply doesn`t add up regardless of how I look at it.
 
It sure could work, in fact I might even be taken in by someone like that if my guard was down.

You know... in general, I think that's a good thing. Most people are good people, including those who could use a helping hand, and those who help.

Running with this scenario just for a second, two young girls in a small "safe" town should be able to ride their bikes around for awhile. They should also be able to help someone who was "obviously" in need of help IMO. I shudder to think what the world would be like if suddenly everyone was scared they might get abducted if they help a person into a car, assist someone who falls, or whatever. :(

Of course, if that happens to be how these girls were abducted, people will get even more cautious than they already are. Rightfully so but it's very upsetting.
 
My mom needs a wheelchair when we go shopping, and she refuses to go when the shops are crowded. She gets bumped, glared at and feels very uncomfortable. Not by everyone, of course, but often enough that she notices it.

Marilynilpa,
I'm sorry your mom has to feel that way. What happened to manners combined with people respecting each other?
 
A high reward amount imo doesn't bring in many legit tips again IMOO.

Actually I don't remember a high reward working period.
Holly Bobo and Tara G, IIRC both had high reward amounts....

In a small town Id hoped it would help. Especially with the economy like it is.
Still, do you all think no one saw the girls abduction?
Im just stuck on that.
 
These families do not appear to be so wealthy that someone would kidnap their children to extort money, so it`s obvious to me that this kidnapping had nothing to do with money.

Furthermore, there has been no demand from kidnappers for money.

I'm seeing money involved, but not in the form of a Kidnapping or Ransom...There's a lot of money to be lost and people going to jail from a Meth business shutting down. I see the girls as collateral!

IMO, People will do anything to protect their interests and investments in this line of business!
 
I can`t imagine that Elizabeth`s parents knew someone that would kidnap their daughter. Since Lyric lived with her grandmother, I can`t imagine that the grandmother knew someone that would kidnap her granddaughter. Since Elizabeth lived in Evansdale and Lyric lived in Waterloo, I`m at a loss as to where they would have met the same nasty person that would know the entire extended family and still kidnap the cousins. That simply doesn`t add up regardless of how I look at it.

BBM

I'm sorry, but I never said this "nasty person" was known by the entire extended family. If you will recheck my post, you will see that I said this person IMO was known to at least one girl's family. I didn't say both families, and I certainly never said extended family.

How can Elizabeth's family possibly know that no one important in their lives is capable of kidnapping her? And how do we know Gma doesn't know someone who is capable of doing this? How many times has a trusted friend, church official, school teacher, coach, etc., been found to be other than what people thought? It happens all the time, and to assume that no one capable of the abduction of these girls could possibly be masquerading as a supportive, trusted friend is unrealistic, IMO.

We might all know someone capable of doing that, maybe even someone in our own church or circle of close friends. We wouldn't know he/she was a "nasty person." They could be very good at hiding it even from those closest to them. JMO
 
I'm seeing money involved, but not in the form of a Kidnapping or Ransom...There's a lot of money to be lost and people going to jail from a Meth business shutting down. I see the girls as collateral!

IMO, People will do anything to protect their interests and investments in this line of business!

Not entirely along those lines...but thinking in a similar fashion....have thought from essentially the beginning that this was a "for-profit" type 'abduction' (monetarily or 'other benefit'-wise)....

From other posters and links, it is evident that 'kids' are worth quite a bit to pedo/trafficking rings....

I am most optimistically looking at these girls being still alive, and was glad to see one of LE's 6 points being about, pay attention to what they look like...

I think a reasonable question would be has anyone 'local' received a relatively large sum of money ? (probably search warrant required to check bank accounts...then of course this may have been a 'cash' deal given the nefarious nature) or has anyone had a perceptible change in means of living...?
 
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