IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #20

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Just wanted to throw this out there: I live a couple hours south of chicago (not even) and have NOT seen a news story on this case in at least a month. NOTHING. Not even "the girls are still missing" :(:(
 
Here is an article about Sex Trafficking. I just thought I would share since some of you are talking about it. Not that this is my opinion, but it is still happening. The article is from Feb. 2012 and updated Mar. 2012.

http://www.kctv5.com/story/17039834/trafficking-kids-for-sex

Of course MOO

Thanks. Excellent article. There is no doubt that someone could have abducted the girls "for" a trafficker..someone on drugs needing money..end of story. It is always a possibility. MOO
 
As many times as I have turned this case over and over in my mind...Even with all of the unsavory drug-related characters and theories involving human-trafficking; I still come up with a lone abductor that groomed at least one of the girls...perhaps over the summer..perhaps in Waterloo at the park, pool, Lake George Wyeth...something like that. I think that the abductor 1) knows the area well, 2) is a person who lives with shame, 3) has deviant sexual tastes, 4) a need to feel powerful...perhaps this person has a degree of delusion that needs to be on medication. I don't know.

I don't see a non-local abductor, snatching 2 kids off the street and then going to try to find a secluded place to stage or dump their bikes risking leaving evidence. They generally don't act that way. This person most likely lured them to the bike trail and tricked them into either getting into a vehicle or they got in willingly at the bike trail. The actual abduction may have begun at the main park area by the bathrooms and water and then progressed from there with the girls willingly biking to the other side of the lake via Gilbert and on down to Arbutus with the perp following them.

I do not believe any member of the family staged this in order to profit. I don't think any member of the family was involved, but I think someone in the family may have had an inkling that someone was trying to connect with either the girls or one of their other cousins in Waterloo or something like that. I think TB is right on the money.

I think LE has at least one real suspect in mind and perhaps looking at someone else. JMHO

ETA: One of my other thoughts is that they are actually in the lake or got trapped or locked in something...and that there was no abduction at all. MOO

I like the way you think! :)

Most of the people here can think outside the box because we are divided by distance. Local input is helpful, but sometimes clouded by linear thinking..

I think our perp is acquainted with one or more family member also..
 
Just wanted to throw this out there: I live a couple hours south of chicago (not even) and have NOT seen a news story on this case in at least a month. NOTHING. Not even "the girls are still missing" :(:(


Our local news station KWWL ran a commercial about every 2 hours saying they are still missing... lately it's been 3 or 4 times a day they show it :(
 
Grain silos are a possibility too. MOO

If the girls are in a grain silo, they will be discovered soon. Prices are up due to the drought, so farmers are moving whatever grain they were holding onto in a silo and to market.

Silos should be easily visible in overhead photographs. I'm not good with any of the mapping sites but if someone is interested, they could check the area around Evansdale for grain silos.
 
If the girls are in a grain silo, they will be discovered soon. Prices are up due to the drought, so farmers are moving whatever grain they were holding onto in a silo and to market.

Silos should be easily visible in overhead photographs. I'm not good with any of the mapping sites but if someone is interested, they could check the area around Evansdale for grain silos.

Gawd..there are gazillions of silos on private property all around E'dale...I just looked at the map. Anyone who has large amounts of horses, cows, hogs, etc., often have a silo or several on their land. Anyone harvesting grain has silos. Ugh.

Honestly, I wish there were about 100 dogs out there with teams searching for "odors" rather than scenting where they went so to speak. Awful thoughts.

I guess they are going to have to identify a suspect or suspects first to find these girls...the rest is a needle in a haystack (no pun intended).

MOO
 
GrainneDhu: Found a link for ya.

http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/p...ent-bulletin/march_2011/human_sex_trafficking

"Human sex trafficking is the most common form of modern-day slavery. Estimates place the number of its domestic and international victims in the millions, mostly females and children enslaved in the commercial sex industry for little or no money.1 The terms human trafficking and sex slavery usually conjure up images of young girls beaten and abused in faraway places, like Eastern Europe, Asia, or Africa. Actually, human sex trafficking and sex slavery happen locally in cities and towns, both large and small, throughout the United States, right in citizens' backyards."
 
Gawd..there are gazillions of silos on private property all around E'dale...I just looked at the map. Anyone who has large amounts of horses, cows, hogs, etc., often have a silo or several on their land. Anyone harvesting grain has silos. Ugh.

Honestly, I wish there were about 100 dogs out there with teams searching for "odors" rather than scenting where they went so to speak. Awful thoughts.

I guess they are going to have to identify a suspect or suspects first to find these girls...the rest is a needle in a haystack (no pun intended).

MOO

I like the way you think too! :D

Just curious...Is your thinking along the lines of the perp hiding evidence in a silo or the girls were exploring a silo and got trapped? I believe my first post was about the girls exploring the building (pump house) and getting trapped. My post was attacked like a duck on a junebug immediately by someone saying not possible due to smells that would have been noticed already. In another senario the perp can hide the bodies (sorry folks, but it is reality) in a sealed container. Of course this would have been a planned act to have a container available.

Thanks for posting.
 
I don't have a link because I read it in a book and I don't have the book anymore. But I believe some links were posted regarding human trafficking in these threads somewhere. I didn't click on the links, so I don't know what the content is, but you could google human trafficking and probably come up with enough reading material to last you awhile. It does exist.
I am not saying that these young children are all taken from this country. Most of them are probably from other countries, possibly orphans. But some of the wealthy perverts who buy these children are right here in the good old USA, and they pay to have these children delivered to them, so that part of this ring is right here, right under our noses. .
Of course our government is not going to confirm this, they can't have people knowing what goes on when they have no power to control it. The FBI has many secrets, it would surprise the common person to know half of what they know. Law enforcement agencies have been well aware of this problem, particularly in the border states, for years, and that's all I can say about it.

Are you thinking about "The Franklin Scandal"?

I read that book and IMHO such a widespread and high reaching sounds quite plausible. I will say that before reading the book and researching a little on my own (via the interwebz, so grain of salt), I would have thought child sex trafficking rings were urban legend-ish.

But now, I dunno. I am about hip deep in the pool on this one.

Not that I think that is what happened here, so sorry for the OT.
 
I like the way you think too! :D

Just curious...Is your thinking along the lines of the perp hiding evidence in a silo or the girls were exploring a silo and got trapped? I believe my first post was about the girls exploring the building (pump house) and getting trapped. My post was attacked like a duck on a junebug immediately by someone saying not possible due to smells that would have been noticed already. In another senario the perp can hide the bodies (sorry folks, but it is reality) in a sealed container. Of course this would have been a planned act to have a container available.

Thanks for posting.

Two fold really. I know that kids have gotten trapped in dumpsters on numerous occasions for example..playing fort or something like that...As far as a grain silo goes..I'm thinking in terms of someone hiding evidence or a body. Obviously, it wouldn't be in a silo that is in use. Perhaps it is at an abandoned farm or at the back of a farm that used to house animals..there could even be a lot of leftover moldy grain material (that stinks too btw). My whole feeling about this from the beginning has been that it was a really personal, secret, dark, compulsive act of some sort. The type of person I feel in my gut responsible for this would be someone with HUGE secrets...acts and looks normal (whatever that is) but has deep dark perverted issues. I don't know why I think that, but the bike trail seems to be a reflection of that to me. This person cares about what he/she did, because he/she went out of the way to not get caught. This is not a stupid person...just really deranged on some level and that level is a secret "vice". I think this person can compartmentalize their feelings..and compartmentalize stuff..like in containers...maybe a hoarder...maybe a teacher. This person lives a normal life because he/she can live in the denial compartment while functioning in the outside world. MOO

ETA: If this person has killed these girls, then I suspect the person has no problem taking any kind of a life. Could be someone who enjoys shooting Bambi so to speak. MOO
 
GrainneDhu: Found a link for ya.

http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/p...ent-bulletin/march_2011/human_sex_trafficking

"Human sex trafficking is the most common form of modern-day slavery. Estimates place the number of its domestic and international victims in the millions, mostly females and children enslaved in the commercial sex industry for little or no money.1 The terms human trafficking and sex slavery usually conjure up images of young girls beaten and abused in faraway places, like Eastern Europe, Asia, or Africa. Actually, human sex trafficking and sex slavery happen locally in cities and towns, both large and small, throughout the United States, right in citizens' backyards."

Quote from the same article:

The majority of these victims are runaway or thrown-away youths who live on the streets and become victims of prostitution.7 These children generally come from homes where they have been abused or from families who have abandoned them. Often, they become involved in prostitution to support themselves financially or to get the things they feel they need or want (like drugs).

Which is exactly what I have been saying in my posts to these threads.

What I was looking for was evidence that there are wealthy people all over the world who are buying children and that there are people who are abducting children to fill that demand.
 
Sorry I missed that part of the discussion. I wouldn't imagine anyone would attempt to ride a bike on a tank, but I was thinking rather of the possibility of them playing and possibly getting stuck inside.
In my experience living here in Iowa, people can't get into tanks that have been placed at public parks. All the hatches are welded shut.
 
:banghead: :banghead: :banghead::pullhair:

I am Trying to remain calm.

When ever LE is in a massive undercover investigation they do not go around broadcasting it and posting it all over the in-ter-net. Other wise the criminals involved would know the FBI and other LE were on to them.

And people who have Relatives and other close friends who are LE do find out more information then just the average Joe/Jane.
And just because in you can't find it on the in-ter-net.... Doesn't mean it doesn't exists.
:deadhorse:

It is the small mindedness of America that sticks their head in the sand and that makes it harder to get funding and answers,
.
This is the same thing that happen way back before there was a Missing and Exploited Fondation and Website and all the other organization that are out there now,

People would say,

Doh, ah.......... NO they ain't Abducted there just lost or run off" I didn't hear it on MY radio or read it in MY newspaper therfore it ain't happening....

:ziplip:


I had put my self in a self imposed Time -out on this thread, and now it looks like I am going to have to do it again.

I am going, Nursebeeme :nurse: ... I am Going....:runaway:To the self imposed....Time Out / Naughty chair
 
:banghead: :banghead: :banghead::pullhair:

I am Trying to remain calm.

When ever LE is in a massive undercover investigation they do not go around broadcasting it and posting it all over the in-ter-net. Other wise the criminals involved would know the FBI and other LE were on to them.

And people who have Relatives and other close friends who are LE do find out more information then just the average Joe/Jane.
And just because in you can't find it on the in-ter-net.... Doesn't mean it doesn't exists.
:deadhorse:

It is the small mindedness of America that sticks their head in the sand and that makes it harder to get funding and answers,
.
This is the same thing that happen way back before there was a Missing and Exploited Fondation and Website and all the other organization that are out there now,

People would say,

Doh, ah.......... NO they ain't Abducted there just lost or run off" I didn't hear it on MY radio or read it in MY newspaper therfore it ain't happening....

:ziplip:


I had put my self in a self imposed Time -out on this thread, and now it looks like I am going to have to do it again.

I am going, Nursebeeme :nurse: ... I am Going....:runaway:To the self imposed....Time Out / Naughty chair

I don't really know what you are saying, but I can't stop laughing at those hilarious smilies you have going on in your post. http://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/smilies/ffj/rocker.gif
 
:banghead: :banghead: :banghead::pullhair:

I am Trying to remain calm.

When ever LE is in a massive undercover investigation they do not go around broadcasting it and posting it all over the in-ter-net. Other wise the criminals involved would know the FBI and other LE were on to them.

And people who have Relatives and other close friends who are LE do find out more information then just the average Joe/Jane.
And just because in you can't find it on the in-ter-net.... Doesn't mean it doesn't exists.
:deadhorse:

It is the small mindedness of America that sticks their head in the sand and that makes it harder to get funding and answers,
.
This is the same thing that happen way back before there was a Missing and Exploited Fondation and Website and all the other organization that are out there now,

People would say,

Doh, ah.......... NO they ain't Abducted there just lost or run off" I didn't hear it on MY radio or read it in MY newspaper therfore it ain't happening....

:ziplip:

I had put my self in a self imposed Time -out on this thread, and now it looks like I am going to have to do it again.

I am going, Nursebeeme :nurse: ... I am Going....:runaway:To the self imposed....Time Out / Naughty chair


Ummm... huh?? Clearly I'm missing something and it's also pretty clear you can't elaborate on it (due to TOS), but this post threw me. I guess I'm one of those small minded Americans... maybe that's why I don't get it. I just want these girls found, and I appreciate the fact that we can look at all different angles and ideas. I also know that LE knows far more than we do, I know no one here is going to "solve" this case, but you never know when the right tip or idea might help IMO.
 
As many times as I have turned this case over and over in my mind...Even with all of the unsavory drug-related characters and theories involving human-trafficking; I still come up with a lone abductor that groomed at least one of the girls...perhaps over the summer..perhaps in Waterloo at the park, pool, Lake George Wyeth...something like that. I think that the abductor 1) knows the area well, 2) is a person who lives with shame, 3) has deviant sexual tastes, 4) a need to feel powerful...perhaps this person has a degree of delusion that needs to be on medication. I don't know.

I don't see a non-local abductor, snatching 2 kids off the street and then going to try to find a secluded place to stage or dump their bikes risking leaving evidence. They generally don't act that way. This person most likely lured them to the bike trail and tricked them into either getting into a vehicle or they got in willingly at the bike trail. The actual abduction may have begun at the main park area by the bathrooms and water and then progressed from there with the girls willingly biking to the other side of the lake via Gilbert and on down to Arbutus with the perp following them.

I do not believe any member of the family staged this in order to profit. I don't think any member of the family was involved, but I think someone in the family may have had an inkling that someone was trying to connect with either the girls or one of their other cousins in Waterloo or something like that. I think TB is right on the money.

I think LE has at least one real suspect in mind and perhaps looking at someone else. JMHO

ETA: One of my other thoughts is that they are actually in the lake or got trapped or locked in something...and that there was no abduction at all. MOO

Interesting your idea about the lake, can LE be 100% sure they are not in the lake, I presume being a small body of water in the warm weather bodies would rise? The 'locked in something' you mention is interesting, I keep thinking someone may have taken them and have them locked in something like an old bomb shelter or root cellar, a basement room, or a secluded house. Is there anything, I wonder, like an old homesite near the lake, maybe from when the highway was built, and the girls went exploring and fell in an old cellar or became trapped somehow. That thought crossed my mind a few weeks ago when I was back in my hometown and saw the rubble of a friend`s cute little home sitting behind a stripmall. Put that in a less busy area where kids go.... Are there remains of old homes and buildings near the lake, along secluded and treed Maiden Lane maybe, and were they searched. I don`t know if a person can tell from above what is under a canopy of trees, I was shocked at how Graceland looks from the air.
 
Ummm... huh?? Clearly I'm missing something and it's also pretty clear you can't elaborate on it (due to TOS), but this post threw me. I guess I'm one of those small minded Americans... maybe that's why I don't get it. I just want these girls found, and I appreciate the fact that we can look at all different angles and ideas. I also know that LE knows far more than we do, I know no one here is going to "solve" this case, but you never know when the right tip or idea might help IMO.

I haven't been posting much either because it's become increasingly clear that what we DON'T know outweighs what we do.

In view of this and a lot of stuff that is pretty much still rumour yet "common knowledge" locally, any discussions we can have on WS are becoming kind of circular...by which I mean, we are chasing our tails.

Until LE releases some POI's, search warrants or other solid information we are pretty much reduced to discussing what sort of crockery they had on the Titanic... a mildly interesting detail but not really relevant in the bigger picture.

I have thought for a while that the case may be "solved" just not "proven" and I think C2 may be getting at the same thing.

It's clear that everyone genuinely cares about these two little girls and the frustration levels are high...especially in view of the lack of "progress" we perceive in the investigation. It doesn't mean there isn't any, however.

:please:
 
Which is exactly what I have been saying in my posts to these threads.

What I was looking for was evidence that there are wealthy people all over the world who are buying children and that there are people who are abducting children to fill that demand.

SBM

I agree, GrainneDhu.

I know there is human trafficking, child *advertiser censored*, and all other kinds of vile things that take place. It is beyond despicable, without a doubt.

The idea about wealthy people all over the world purchasing children, who are supplied by people who abduct children just to fill this need, isn't anything I've seen documented in MSM. I've never seen anything to support the idea that this is a thriving "industry".

I think this is a story that has been circulated so widely that it has come to be accepted as truth.

If anyone has a link to a source where this specific "industry" (not human trafficking in general) is discussed, please post it here. TIA
 
After reading that post 10 times, it concerns me when C2 says "massive investigation" and puts self in naughty chair. I'm really hoping I don't understand what is meant, but..I think I might. MOO
 
There is an industry, always has been - but the victims are generally not little white girls from Iowa.

The victims of human trafficking are generally children from third world countries whose parents have knowingly sold them into prostitution. There are no missing children reports for such events. The trafficking is intentional, widespread, unreported.

There is no need to "steal" children. There is an excess of unwanted children in poor countries freely available for every need, at the right price.

All you need to do is read the missing child reports, say here on WS, appreciate the investigations into those reports, how many turn out to be victims in their own homes by their own loved ones, such as Caylee and Jon Benet (arguably), countless others.

There is no organised, steal-to-order market for first world children...or if there is, it is extremely small, isolated, and one off in nature, not organised, wide spread, and lurking on every street corner.

The overwhelming risk to children in first world countries remains at the hands of immediate family, in their own homes.

Statistics tell us this. The rest is just urban legend. Thank God.
 
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