NC - MacDonald family murders at Fort Bragg, 1970 - Jeffrey MacDonald innocent?

[borndem]

An ice pick that never injured him.

That's correct - and all of the weapons used were found in the master or found neatly placed just outside the back door of their house, and they were all traced back to the MacD home.

His wounds were very slight. He had a punctured lung that was quickly repaired at the hospital, and he had a slight abrasion on the left side of his forehead -- the medicos that attended his injuries did not even put a BandAid on his forehead. The wounds were nowhere close to being a danger to his life.

He said he was fighting with one of the intruders when he was in the living room -- his said it looked like an icepick, and stated that the cuts in his pj top were when it was around his hands (his words to account for the many holes in his pj top), but he had no puncture injuries from that "attack."

Guilty then. Guilty now. Period. JMHO.

 

[Sonya610]

This is happening in Georgia too. A man who confessed to killing a store clerk in 1974 wants a new trial. He not only confessed but his family hid the loot from the robbery for him.

He finally got a new trial but now his lawyers want the charges DISMISSED not because they claim he is innocent, but because most of the evidence is now gone and key witnesses have either died or are now senile, even the lead investigator has since died.

I wonder if this will be a new trend for murderers convicted ages ago?

Article on Georgia new trial scam:

During a hearing Thursday in which bond was denied for Johnson, Stacey F. Morris argued “almost every piece of evidence” in the case is no longer in existence and a key witness has died.

http://www.macon.com/2012/09/21/2186017/warner-robins-woman-floated-purchases.html

 

[sandybeach1267]

Ok, so after re-familiarizing myself with the details of this case I believe that there are enough questions to at least give the man another trial. Why is it possible to believe that Charles Manson could get people to commit murder for him and in such a horrible way but unbelievable that there may be another group of "crazies" that would do something similar? There are copy cat killers all the time. The crime scene was completely contaminated, witnesses were not listened to, evidence "disappeared", and the man has consistently maintained his innocence for 40 years. I always have questions when important evidence is conveniently gone. It is easier for us to believe that a previously high functioning member of society would suddenly "freak out" and kill his own family than to believe that a group of people using drugs known to cause violence would break in and do something so heinous. It helps us sleep at night. As for the "lie" about which child wet the bed, who knows what kind of chaos would be in your mind after such an event. Do we really expect that anyone is humanly capable of remembering an event such as this in complete detail? IF he had been caught molesting his daughter, that may explain the reason for killing his family, however, why would he molest her in the same bed that his wife were sleeping in? I have been a victim of this myself and believe that it would have been done in the child's room where no one else would be but the two of them. I have heard that his reaction to this accusation was noticeable. There have been way too many innocent people convicted simply because the first responders assumed it was them and chose to ignore evidence to the contrary. All the evidence that points away from them somehow disappears. We have a problem in this country and IMO it's time to face it instead of continuing to believe that people simply "snap" and kill their own families. Not that they don't but again, I feel that we are quicker to believe this because we don't want to think that some stranger could enter our homes and do the same. How many parents have to lose their children and then go through the horror of being falsely blamed and imprisoned for it before we accept that the alternative often happens?

 

[believe09]

After reading McGuiness's current testimony about being present when Helena was interviewed by the defense team, this one is going to die a pretty quick death imo.

http://www.fayobserver.com/articles/2012/09/21/1205722?sac=fo.local

Please, let it be the last we hear of this man until his obit.

 

[believe09]

I wish someone would write a book about the horrible harassment & crimes committed against an incapacitated woman, with a history of mental illness dating back to high school, all to secure the freedom of a narcissistic killer who has lost countless appeals and case reviews over the past 30 years.

Color me sappy.

I loved this post. You should write it-I will buy it for sure. :blowkiss:

 

[SoBeCzar]

It has been a very long time since I read about this case so forgive me if I'm asking a dumb question. Can't the board used have DNA testing done to check the end where someone would hold it to wield it? Has it been checked? Even if LE did a sloppy investigation it would not place Macdonalds dna on the end of the board.
I read where a killers dna was found many many yrs later on the shirt sleeves of a woman who's body was dumped. The theory was a killer would have drug her by her arms thus leaving dna on her long sleeves.

 

[Madeleine74]

If the board is still in evidence and chain-of-custody has been maintained, sure it can be DNA tested. Anything can be tested as long as permission is given by the court and someone pays for the testing.

Since MacDonald was convicted of 3 murders the burden is no longer on the state to prove his guilt (since they already did that in 1979), the burden shifts to MacDonald to prove his innocence and/or find a legal reason his conviction should be overturned.

 

[SLM]

It's been many, many years since I've read or seen anything on this case but, if memory serves, his account of the events always seemed very contrived. From the minimal signs of struggle in the living room, to the matching up of the stab wounds in his pyjama top to the wounds on his wife's torso, and why leave him alive when they so brutally killed every other member of the family. It just doesn't make any sense.

 

[SoBeCzar]

If the board is still in evidence and chain-of-custody has been maintained, sure it can be DNA tested. Anything can be tested as long as permission is given by the court and someone pays for the testing.

Since MacDonald was convicted of 3 murders the burden is no longer on the state to prove his guilt (since they already did that in 1979), the burden shifts to MacDonald to prove his innocence and/or find a legal reason his conviction should be overturned.

Thank you. I was thinking in terms of a new trial. If anyone has doubts it might be definitive evidence to convince them. I have no doubts.

 

[LaMer]

Ok, so after re-familiarizing myself with the details of this case I believe that there are enough questions to at least give the man another trial. Why is it possible to believe that Charles Manson could get people to commit murder for him and in such a horrible way but unbelievable that there may be another group of "crazies" that would do something similar? There are copy cat killers all the time. The crime scene was completely contaminated, witnesses were not listened to, evidence "disappeared", and the man has consistently maintained his innocence for 40 years. I always have questions when important evidence is conveniently gone. It is easier for us to believe that a previously high functioning member of society would suddenly "freak out" and kill his own family than to believe that a group of people using drugs known to cause violence would break in and do something so heinous. It helps us sleep at night. As for the "lie" about which child wet the bed, who knows what kind of chaos would be in your mind after such an event. Do we really expect that anyone is humanly capable of remembering an event such as this in complete detail? IF he had been caught molesting his daughter, that may explain the reason for killing his family, however, why would he molest her in the same bed that his wife were sleeping in? I have been a victim of this myself and believe that it would have been done in the child's room where no one else would be but the two of them. I have heard that his reaction to this accusation was noticeable. There have been way too many innocent people convicted simply because the first responders assumed it was them and chose to ignore evidence to the contrary. All the evidence that points away from them somehow disappears. We have a problem in this country and IMO it's time to face it instead of continuing to believe that people simply "snap" and kill their own families. Not that they don't but again, I feel that we are quicker to believe this because we don't want to think that some stranger could enter our homes and do the same. How many parents have to lose their children and then go through the horror of being falsely blamed and imprisoned for it before we accept that the alternative often happens?

I agree, a new trail would be warranted, especially after reading Errol Morris's book, A Wilderness of Error.

I am curious to know if any one here had read the book.

 

[JulieR]

I agree, a new trail would be warranted, especially after reading Errol Morris's book, A Wilderness of Error.

I am curious to know if any one here had read the book.

No didn't read the book. I have been studying the material on all the web sites. I agree he should get a new trial. To read his accounts of what happened, I believe he is guilty!! However there are things I question things like the PJ, top that was a joke, how they made that match. Then his PJ bottoms were lost. I also think its strange he didn't have much injuries to his hands like you would expect after stabbing someone, or any scratch marks. If there really was 3 hairs found that don't match the Macdonald family they were found on and near the body......that makes you question. I also believe skin from under some one's finger nail was lost. In cases like this it always makes me question since they didn't seem to have enough to put him away the first time, then what 9 years later they do? IDK I am still reading and tend to believe it deserves to be looked at again, then on the flip side you could say he sure covered his tracks, by saying I removed the knife, I checked and rechecked the kids, I washed my hands. Macdonald maintaining his innocents don't mean much to me, really he isn't going to get out by saying he did it. I just think at this point it should all be put before a jury and let them decide and any and all evidence that's left should be tested !!!!

 

[JulieR]

It's been many, many years since I've read or seen anything on this case but, if memory serves, his account of the events always seemed very contrived. From the minimal signs of struggle in the living room, to the matching up of the stab wounds in his pyjama top to the wounds on his wife's torso, and why leave him alive when they so brutally killed every other member of the family. It just doesn't make any sense.

Aw I know however remember the Dr. Petit family killings, had the two guys not been caught right away it could have looked like the Dr. was involved.

 

[katydid23]

Aw I know however remember the Dr. Petit family killings, had the two guys not been caught right away it could have looked like the Dr. was involved.

But they thought Dr. Petit was tied up in the basement unconscious. Then they set the house on fire. So they did not leave him expecting he was going to survive, imo.

Why would 'hippies', trippin on LSD and chanting about killing the 'pigs', viciously murder two little girls and barely touch an Army captain?

 

[borndem]

But just because they found three hairs in the home, that does not mean they were the killers. I am sure the kids had friends over and there were housekeepers or workers and neighbors and others who entered the home that week.

Very good point, katydid -- JM liked to have a couple of folks over for drinks, regardless of the strain it may have put on Collette who would be trying to get dinner organized & done -- heaven knows he was no help. Anyway, those hairs could be from cocktail-time guests, some Green Beret buddy or two, a baby sitter (the hair under Kristen's fingernail), or anyone who may have visited and held Kristen or given her a bottle or some little playmate of Kim's or Kristen's, etc., etc. I just don't think those hairs are that big a deal. That they weren't found initially is understandable or it could be a bit worrisome for a couple of even nefarious reasons.

On another subject, as has been said previously, the walls in those duplexes is apparently quite thin -- our neighbors, a retired Army Colonel and his wife, who had lived in just the same type duplex years ago in Ft. Bragg -- near Castle Drive -- said you could hear the commode flush or someone sneeze in the apt. next door. They agreed that there was no way a band of anybody could come in and do that type of crime without waking up everyone in the next door apt. And they added that the master bedroom in the apts. shared a wall.

Guilty then. Guilty now. Period.

 

[TorisMom003]

JM has lied about many things that he claims occured that night. There is plenty of reason why the MPs and LE thought that he was the one who killed his family. JM claimed that he did mouth to mouth on both the girls and Collette, however, there is no way that he actually performed mouth to mouth on either one of the girls. One need only look at the crime scene photos to understand that is a lie. There was no struggle of life or death in the living room area, the proof of that is the cards still being upright on the cabinet. A group of "hippies" on acid is not going to be together enough to commit and clean up a crime in the manner in which this was done. It's pretty amazing that they (the 4 or maybe it was 6) were able to find a home of a Dr that had the back door unlocked. So many lies that have been proven to be lies.

Personally I don't see the point of another trial. It would be a waste of money when the verdict would remain the same.

MOO

 

[borndem]

This site has lots of case information, and input from Colette's brother.

http://www.thejeffreymacdonaldcase.com/html/transcripts.html

A lot of reading -- but it's a must for any follower of this case. Very interesting. I've seen & read it before, but it's very much worth another review.

Thanks, KathrynL for providing.

 

[JulieR]

But they thought Dr. Petit was tied up in the basement unconscious. Then they set the house on fire. So they did not leave him expecting he was going to survive, imo.

Why would 'hippies', trippin on LSD and chanting about killing the 'pigs', viciously murder two little girls and barely touch an Army captain?

Why kill the children well because they could ID the killer. Maybe they thought Macdonald was dead.

My point was IF the guys weren't caught right away, since Dr. Petit lived they would have looked at him as having involvement in his families deaths.
I do for the most part believe Macdonald is guilty, but there is still them little things that nag me, that's why I am trying to come to my own conclusions from the material available. However I am the first to admit I always give people the benefit I would be the worst person to be on a jury.......really.

 

[borndem]

Helena Stoeckly was a drug abuser who changed her story about a dozen times. Sometimes she was there, sometimes not, sometimes she couldn't remember. She was determined to be an unreliable witness because she was so impaired she couldn't figure out what day it was most of the time. She was a heroin addict, an alcoholic, and couldn't determine reality.

What hippies walk into someone's home, don't have any weapons on them, go searching and find an icepick and a knife and also take a slat of wood matching one daughter's bed and go on a rampage on a 2 yr old, a 5 yr old and a helpless sleeping pregnant woman? Not even Charlie Manson would allow the hurting of a child (though I guess he didn't care about pregnant women).

You have to look at the evidence to see how ridiculous JM's claims are and how they don't match the crime scene.

Absolutely, Madeleine! Not only that -- if these 4 people were on acid during this break-in/murder (with not a murder weapon among them), they would not be in a murderous rage, they would not have the power of organized thought to plan such a thing, & they would have a heyell of a time finding a specific address, and remembering & carrying out their initial plan and strategy would be impossible.

It just didn't happen -- not a chance. LSD just does not affect people in that way, ever. It's very difficult just to drive a car out of a driveway. And that's all I'm going to say about that.

 

[LinasK]

JM has lied about many things that he claims occured that night. There is plenty of reason why the MPs and LE thought that he was the one who killed his family. JM claimed that he did mouth to mouth on both the girls and Collette, however, there is no way that he actually performed mouth to mouth on either one of the girls. One need only look at the crime scene photos to understand that is a lie. There was no struggle of life or death in the living room area, the proof of that is the cards still being upright on the cabinet. A group of "hippies" on acid is not going to be together enough to commit and clean up a crime in the manner in which this was done. It's pretty amazing that they (the 4 or maybe it was 6) were able to find a home of a Dr that had the back door unlocked. So many lies that have been proven to be lies.

Personally I don't see the point of another trial. It would be a waste of money when the verdict would remain the same.

MOO

I agree!

 

[LinasK]

Don't know if anyone posted this before, just came upon it now:

Author: Jeffrey MacDonald confession needs court hearing

A Charlotte couple’s assertion this week that they heard an acquaintance confess to the murder of Jeffrey MacDonald’s family is the latest proof that MacDonald deserves a new trial, writer Errol Morris said Thursday.

Morris is the author of “A Wilderness of Error,” a new and critical look at MacDonald’s 1979 conviction for murder. The writer and filmmaker was in Wilmington for much of the week, sitting in on a federal court hearing in which MacDonald sought a new trial.


http://www.thestate.com/2012/09/21/2450187/author-jeffrey-macdonald-confession.html#.UF31po1lRqE

The thing is- false confessions happen more frequently than one would think. Just look at John Mark Karr in the JonBenet Ramsey case. He got the DA to fly him over free of charge from Thailand and released him here in the United States when he is a pedophile, but none of the evidence linked him to the case in the slightest!!! Some people just want their 15 min. of fame.