GUILTY Australia - Jill Meagher, 29, Melbourne, 22 Sep 2012 #3

[LegallyBrunette]

I do believe I shall keep reading and posting until (if ever) that happens. Then I'll disqualify myself by explaining I've been on here....

You know it doesn't mean you couldn't bring an open mind to the case. It could be argued that you might be preferred as a juror having shown an interest and being informed. Being a contributor to a controlled forum such as WS is markedly different to the idiots creating FB pages and posting rubbish, wanting to take the law into their own hands.

If only they directed all that energy into something positive like making the streets safer you might take them seriously.

 

[LegallyBrunette]

Yes Underbelly wasnt shown in Vic or the books/dvd werent available there either

And there was one episode we couldn't see in NSW at first.

 

[truthound]

Underbelly.

Edit: Wasn't it that the show was about Melbourne crime and couldn't be shown in Victoria?

Yes it was, Fruity. I remember when it first went to air, and it was ridiculous, because they pixelated some guy's face.

Nevertheless, I'm sure they didn't want to jeopardise any pending legal proceedings or be in contempt.

But it is a strange system, huh?


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[BreakingNews]

I wonder if the reason some people are out walking the streets free to offend again is due to juries not being allowed to know about past offenses.

Maybe, but I think the judge has this information prior to sentencing - I could be wrong. Years ago I was on a murder trial where we did not know of his prior attempts to murder, but we said he was guilty anyway.

I think it is more likely our system that enables offenders out on the streets. Some offenders are not able to be rehabilitated, and should never be released. But of course some believe everyone can be rehabilitated and should be given a second chance. Jill was not given a second chance.

 

[mister2]

You gotta admire those radio and tv waves that stop dead at the border around Victoria, don't you? And that pesky interweb thingy that allows people to watch TV from interstate. Sheesh - that's about as silly as those court-ordered suppressions of names that only apply to one state. Yet the name is all over the internet!

I think that in some regards, the law needs to be brought up to 21st century realities. Not law enforcement - they're already well up there. I have the highest regard for the police savvy on those things. In fact, we have one of the best computer fraud squads in the country here in Brisbane, headed by the redoubtable Brian Hay - if you ever see him on TV, listen to every word - the man is a genius!

But the legal system of the courts etc is still stuck in the dark ages, I think.

One of the problems of state based courts.

Although even a suppression order in all states couldn't stop NZ media from discussing and it'd back here on the web immediately.

So you add international agreements and then it escapes on facebook, twitter, reddit, etc

No win situation unfortunately

 

[Blue Bottle]

Or that TV drama about a crime in Sydney that could be shown everywhere in the country but NSW? What was that called?

Underbelly. I thought it was Victoria where it was not shown and though it was base on fact, it was nevertheless fictionalised.


Underbelly is a 13 part Australian television mini series that retells the real events of the 1995–2004 gangland war in Melbourne.

Underbelly began screening on 13 February 2008 on the Nine Network in all states and territories except Victoria. An edited version of the series premiered in Victoria on 14 September 2008 after the injunction was partially lifted, although only the first five episodes were shown. In 2011, the injunction was partially lifted and the series was screened as 'Underbelly: Uncut'.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underbelly_(TV_series)

Edit: I see others have replied and yes, that's the show I was meaning. It's not as if Victorian's weren't able to get hold of it to see it anyway.

There must be some sort of state law in Victoria which allows for this to happen. Anyone know?

 

[revampz]

You gotta admire those radio and tv waves that stop dead at the border around Victoria, don't you? And that pesky interweb thingy that allows people to watch TV from interstate. Sheesh - that's about as silly as those court-ordered suppressions of names that only apply to one state. Yet the name is all over the internet!

I think that in some regards, the law needs to be brought up to 21st century realities. Not law enforcement - they're already well up there. I have the highest regard for the police savvy on those things. In fact, we have one of the best computer fraud squads in the country here in Brisbane, headed by the redoubtable Brian Hay - if you ever see him on TV, listen to every word - the man is a genius!

But the legal system of the courts etc is still stuck in the dark ages, I think.

Dr Watson, you just beat me to the post. I was just about to say how ludicrous it is that the legal system has not kept up with the modern world....ie the internet!!! and especially social media. I saw it with the boy is south australia ...Jason Downie I think his name was.......they were asking for his name to be suppressed and all hell was breaking loose on facebook because all of the young people were so angry and wanted the world to know that he had killed a young girl and her parents.

I can understand why they want to stop people talking on social media I really do, no one wants the crims (or more specifically their lawyers!) to have any cause to get them off these charges, however I think it is very very hard to police it....the laws need to be altered to fit in with this, dont know how though.

Also I just want to say what a wonderful job the police did on this!!!

Today is qld police rememberance day.......this is especially important to me....

My father was a policeman in country qld for 40 years and my brother has been a policeman in qld for nearly 30 years. My father received two commendations for bravery in his time.....one for rescuing people in a swollen river back in the seventies and another for saving an elderly couple who were being held hostage in an armed robbery.

I could tell you so many stories about life with a country cop...in fact we are trying to get dad to write a book.........most of them sad. The things my father has seen.....well.......anyone who has a relative as a policeperson, nurse, doc, ambo, fireperson etc can relate.

And I too remember the Mackay sisters........in fact that case was drummed into us by dad about being careful............and the that did it died an old man here in Townsville after molesting a huge amount of his own family members and being a suspect in a few of the famous child murder cases...


Anyhow once again....good work police!!!!

 

[aust amateur slueth]

like a couple of other posters I wouldn't be surprised if there are more arrests made.

the neighbours remarks about 2 cars arriving at the accuseds residence at 2am Sat worry me.

the time frame from Jills phone call to the 2 cars arriving at accuseds property is approx 17 mins (1.43am and 2am). Taking driving time into consideration

IMO the Police had information when the homicide squad took over, probably the footage from the pizza shop.

Robbos site made interesting reading, very similarities to other disappearances/murders

 

[LegallyBrunette]

I suppose the way it's seen is that a person in Vic can see the footage and get the info if they really want to make the effort, but it isn't in mainstream media prior to trial, so less chance of potential of prejudice by a juror.


Remember the Peter Falconio case, his girlfriend Joanne Lees had seen a photo of the accused, Bradley John Murdoch, online (she was back in UK) BEFORE she did ID parade.
Defence argued that ID was flawed, prosecution said 'oh she didn't really take much notice of it.

 

[msthinksalot]

IMO, I have absolutely no doubt in my mind now that the phone call to her brother and saying "I'm worried" was code because she felt she was in serious danger, and made the phone call to try and get him to go away but definitely may have felt too scared to actually say anything. By that point I feel it would have been clear to her that he wasn't going to leave her.

I've made those same sorts of phone calls, or even pretend phone calls, when I've noticed a man acting sketchy when I'm out alone at night. I consider myself lucky when I think about how many times I walked home alone -- because it was such a short distance -- when I was younger. Watching that CCTV video felt so awful... it just makes me so angry. Women should be able to walk home, go for a bike ride, etc., without having to have a male escort because there are creepers waiting to snatch us!! :banghead:

 

[LegallyBrunette]

like a couple of other posters I wouldn't be surprised if there are more arrests made.

the neighbours remarks about 2 cars arriving at the accuseds residence at 2am Sat worry me.

the time frame from Jills phone call to the 2 cars arriving at accuseds property is approx 17 mins (1.43am and 2am). Taking driving time into consideration

IMO the Police had information when the homicide squad took over, probably the footage from the pizza shop.

Robbos site made interesting reading, very similarities to other disappearances/murders

Article I posted in previous from Brisbane Courier Mail had interview with his landlady and she said she didn't hear cars. But the two other neighbours did.

 

[Blue Bottle]

Yes - this did happen before, iirc... it was the case where the guy killed a family with a machete, right? I can't recall the name at the moment, but I remember the case well.

No idea, it wasn't what I was thinking. Having said that, it doesn't surprise me that there are a number of cases from Victoria where this type of thing has happened.

It does my head in that type of thing.

 

[LegallyBrunette]

I've made those same sorts of phone calls, or even pretend phone calls, when I've noticed a man acting sketchy when I'm out alone at night. I consider myself lucky when I think about how many times I walked home alone -- because it was such a short distance -- when I was younger. Watching that CCTV video felt so awful... it just makes me so angry. Women should be able to walk home, go for a bike ride, etc., without having to have a male escort because there are creepers waiting to snatch us!! :banghead:

Haven't we all. This case, people who knew him said he was 'just an average bloke', pleasant etc, landlady gave him big rap. If same MO as Dutch girl was used (someone is following you, I'll take care of you) you can see how it could happen. That's what makes it so frightening.

 

[alj65]

Or that TV drama about a crime in Sydney that could be shown everywhere in the country but NSW? What was that called?

Someone else mentioned upthread the mini-series Blue Murder. It wasn't allowed to be shown in NSW or ACT for 6 years because of Neddy Smith's appeal against his life sentence.

 

[Aberline_1979]

like a couple of other posters I wouldn't be surprised if there are more arrests made.

the neighbours remarks about 2 cars arriving at the accuseds residence at 2am Sat worry me.

the time frame from Jills phone call to the 2 cars arriving at accuseds property is approx 17 mins (1.43am and 2am). Taking driving time into consideration

IMO the Police had information when the homicide squad took over, probably the footage from the pizza shop.

Robbos site made interesting reading, very similarities to other disappearances/murders

Agree 100%. If the neighbor's testimony is reliable, then there was almost certainly more than one person involved. As far as we know he didn't share his house with anybody apart from his wife, and it would be a bit of a coincidence if these two or more cars just happened to innocently arrive at his place at 2am, while he is off kidnapping/raping/murdering Jill.

I sure hope no one else was involved...but if the above bit of testimony IS reliable, then we'd better brace ourselves :-(

 

[truthound]

like a couple of other posters I wouldn't be surprised if there are more arrests made.

the neighbours remarks about 2 cars arriving at the accuseds residence at 2am Sat worry me.

the time frame from Jills phone call to the 2 cars arriving at accuseds property is approx 17 mins (1.43am and 2am). Taking driving time into consideration

IMO the Police had information when the homicide squad took over, probably the footage from the pizza shop.

Robbos site made interesting reading, very similarities to other disappearances/murders

That site sounds interesting. Do you have a link, aust amateur sleuth?


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[pudd]

Someone else mentioned upthread the mini-series Blue Murder. It wasn't allowed to be shown in NSW or ACT for 6 years because of Neddy Smith's appeal against his life sentence.

Yes, I was tying to recall Blue Murder but others have pointed ot similar cases (Underbelly) going the other way. Very confusing given such a small population (and now the extent of the internet joining us up across the miles).

 

[LegallyBrunette]

Meanwhile, the owner of the Coburg house, in Melbourne's north, in which Mr Bayley lived said he'd been a tenant there for six months.
She said he was a respectful and cooperative tenant.
"He's been very courteous in the house," the woman, who declined to be named, said.
She said she hadn't heard multiple cars pull up at the house early on Saturday morning.
Earlier, Coburg neighbour Dale Trotter said he saw at least two cars pull up outside the Coburg house at about 2am on Saturday morning.
"I saw some cars rock up. I didn't suspect anything of it," Mr Trotter said.
Another neighbour, Trish Murray, said she noticed up to four cars outside the house on Saturday.
Gym members at Fenix Fitness in Coburg say the 41-year-old man charged with murdering Jill Meagher was a casual member.
A Coburg local and current gym member said she last saw the man a year ago weight training on his own.
"He was pretty easy going, he was confident, but most of those boys are," the woman, who asked for her name not to be used, said.
"He seemed friendly, always had a smile on his face."
"He really just came across like your average Joe."

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...f-murder-hearing/story-fndo1wyv-1226482868669

 

[Strangeworld]

I'm really surprised the police stated that he didn't have a significant criminal history (or something to that effect - I know the link is somewhere in this thread or previous ones on Jill). He clearly does, based on reports that are coming up on MSM tonight. I can't understand the motivation for doing this - they already had him in custody.

Edit: I thought I'd better clarify this - just because it was reported in MSM, doesn't mean the police said it. So just wondering why it was reported (regardless who said it) that he didn't have significant criminal history.

 

[aust amateur slueth]

You know it doesn't mean you couldn't bring an open mind to the case. It could be argued that you might be preferred as a juror having shown an interest and being informed. Being a contributor to a controlled forum such as WS is markedly different to the idiots creating FB pages and posting rubbish, wanting to take the law into their own hands.

If only they directed all that energy into something positive like making the streets safer you might take them seriously.

IMO being a contributor here would be a valuable asset for anyone on a jury, we read, listen to, watch an incredible amount of information and often theres stuff that stands out like dogs balls to us and we want justice. someone who isn't interested in the case and is just doing their civic duty because they have to isn't going to care what happens either way, and IMO thats dangerous.

Lots of people complain about doing jury duty, but I'd like it if they employed suitable people as jury members on a permanent basis.