TN TN - Chloie Leverette, 9, & Gage Daniel, 7, Unionville, 23 Sept 2012

[LittleMissContrary]

The one fact about this case that keeps bugging me is the fact that one of the children stayed home from school that day.

Was the child sick? If so, I can't imagine that the two children would have been feeling well enough to play together. If the one child was in bed, maybe the other child was bored and could have been playing with matches, but it doesn't seem likely.

The time of the fire also seems like a strange time for a fire to be started as an accident by a child, or by anyone.
I would think that the household would be settling down for the night, watching a movie or tv, just lounging together.
I also don't understand why both adults would have been in the basement.
The other odd thing is why someone would have 30 propane tanks in the basement.
I don't know about you, but those tanks aren't cheap, and most people just have them refilled when they are empty. I can understand having one or two for backup, but 30? Maybe they were being collected for recycling, but I find it hard to imagine that anyone would store them in the house.
If those tanks were empty, would they still have contributed to the fire?
I would think since they are pressurized, they might contribute to the initial combustion, but the way those marks were described, its sounds like there was some kind of fuel interacting with the flames.

This is all very confusing. I ask the universe to please protect these beautiful children, and to bring them home.

 

[chinacat67]

The one fact about this case that keeps bugging me is the fact that one of the children stayed home from school that day.

Was the child sick? If so, I can't imagine that the two children would have been feeling well enough to play together. If the one child was in bed, maybe the other child was bored and could have been playing with matches, but it doesn't seem likely.

IIRC, Gage didn't go to school on Friday but the fire was on Sunday night.

 

[GrainneDhu]

but a space heater fire moving with what appears to be such ferocity?

Depends on what materials there were in the house.

Hardwood floors that have a relatively fresh coat of polyurethane finish can burn incredibly hot and leave a line of intermittent smoke/char cones along a wall. It looks like arson with an accelerant but isn't.

So it isn't just the point of ignition that matters, it also depends on the materials and contents of the house. And, for some of those materials, how long they have been in place.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Maybe they haven't searched hard enough through the rubble of the house? I don't know, this is goosebumps style stuff.

They've got the international experts, the Tennessee Anthropological Research Facility, on site. It doesn't look like they were lacking in trained personnel to process the site.

If that particular team of experts is saying they haven't found any children's remains, I'm inclined to believe them.

Recent photos of those children should be widely disseminated so the public can keep an eye out for them.

 

[GrainneDhu]

BBM When I read about the 20 propane tanks, I wondered the same thing. That explains the intensity of the fire. If the children were in the basement and accidentally started the fire near the tanks, then the grandparents may have died when they rushed into the basement and tried desperately to rescue the children. By then, the basement was probably engulfed in flames.

I hope forensics will determine whether the children perished in the fire. It's terrible not knowing either way! I hate to think Chloie and Gage could been in the hands of some deranged SO!

It is puzzling. Particularly since every news story I've read says that the remains of the grandparents were located in the basement.

 

[Straitfan]

I live about 30 miles away and was discussing with a woman today whose husband had worked with the G'pa for years & they socialized with the Grandparents. She said the Grandpa is bio (his daug is the childrens mom) and his wife is the step gma. They have been raising kids for approx 5 yrs (think this was on news) but she wasnt sure what caused them to take custody. She said they adored the children. Also she said in addition to finding the dog, they also found their bird in the rubble so definatly would think if the children were there they would have found them.

 

[Considering]

The family posted some pictures that (amazingly) survived the fire on the McClaran's memorial page.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Leon-bubba-an-mollie-mcclaran-memorial-page/142594729219751

 

[peeples]

I live about 30 miles away and was discussing with a woman today whose husband had worked with the G'pa for years & they socialized with the Grandparents. She said the Grandpa is bio (his daug is the childrens mom) and his wife is the step gma. They have been raising kids for approx 5 yrs (think this was on news) but she wasnt sure what caused them to take custody. She said they adored the children. Also she said in addition to finding the dog, they also found their bird in the rubble so definatly would think if the children were there they would have found them.

Birds bones are hollow, so a person would think they would burn easier than humans.... so if they found the bird... maybe the kids really aren't there....

 

[Indy Anna]

Birds bones are hollow, so a person would think they would burn easier than humans.... so if they found the bird... maybe the kids really aren't there....

On the other hand, it could be that the children were at the center of the fire. I doubt the bird would've been kept in the basement. Small domesticated birds (parakeets, canaries, finches) have fragile respiratory systems, so would not thrive in a cool, damp environment. If photos were salvaged, it sounds as though the fire department arrived before some parts of the house were completely engulfed. The bird likely died from smoke inhalation.

 

[Indy Anna]

http://abcnews.go.com/US/chloie-lev...issued-missing/story?id=17354883#.UGdqdK6J1qA
~snipped~

"Their mother has been spoken to, she does not have the children," Helm told ABC News. "There are other family members that we are looking to speak with today."

BBM

 

[writer7]

The amount of propane tanks can go both ways, imho. On one hand, that could certainly cause an accidental fire, but on the other, folks may know that the couple kept so many tanks because it's bound to be something someone would comment on/about. That would be an arsonist's dream, wouldn't it? Shoot; it opens up the possibilities even more, I think

 

[TxLady2]

BBM When I read about the 20 propane tanks, I wondered the same thing. That explains the intensity of the fire. If the children were in the basement and accidentally started the fire near the tanks, then the grandparents may have died when they rushed into the basement and tried desperately to rescue the children. By then, the basement was probably engulfed in flames.

I hope forensics will determine whether the children perished in the fire. It's terrible not knowing either way! I hate to think Chloie and Gage could been in the hands of some deranged SO!

I asked my husband about this, and he says unless the valves on the tanks had a leak in them, or were opened up, then the fire wouldn't have affected them. He says you can light a match around them and as long as the valves are closed and they don't have a leak, it won't cause an explosion or a fire. We have a 250 gallon tank about 20 feet from our back door.

 

[palaminodee]

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/09/29/amber-alert-issued-for-2-children-missing-after-tennessee-fire/

how did this meet Amber Alert requirements? Am I missing some info?

 

[palaminodee]

AMBER Alert Criteria
TBI will issue an AMBER Alert when requested by a law enforcement agency when the following conditions are met:
1) Accurate information on at least one of the following:
1) Description of child
2) Description of suspect
3) Description of vehicle
2) Child must be 17 years of age or younger
3) A belief that the child is in imminent danger of bodily injury or death.

Guess I should have read this first! Sorry, I thought a vehicle description was required, guess not.

Are the requirements different per state since none was issued for the IA girls?

 

[LietKynes]

"..how did this meet Amber Alert requirements? Am I missing some info? "
sbm

I wondered that as well...don't they have to have a vehicle description or poi ?

Your post supercedes mine !

 

[Considering]

Each state has their own criteria for issuing an AMBER Alert.

http://www.amberalert.gov/faqs.htm

TBI will issue an AMBER Alert when requested by a law enforcement agency when the following conditions are met:

1) Accurate information on at least one of the following:
1) Description of child
2) Description of suspect
3) Description of vehicle

2) Child must be 17 years of age or younger

3) A belief that the child is in imminent danger of bodily injury or death.

http://www.tbi.state.tn.us/missing_children/amber_alert.shtml

 

[GrainneDhu]

AMBER Alert Criteria
TBI will issue an AMBER Alert when requested by a law enforcement agency when the following conditions are met:
1) Accurate information on at least one of the following:
1) Description of child
2) Description of suspect
3) Description of vehicle
2) Child must be 17 years of age or younger
3) A belief that the child is in imminent danger of bodily injury or death.

Guess I should have read this first! Sorry, I thought a vehicle description was required, guess not.

Are the requirements different per state since none was issued for the IA girls?

The requirements are different from state to state.

 

[TripleA]

This reminds me of the Sodder children. It has never been determined if they actually died in the fire or if they were abducted.

I do hope that these babies are alive somehow, somewhere.

 

[debirlfan]

Pure speculation... Kids were playing in the basement sometime earlier in the day (and likely not supposed to be down there.) One of the kids turns the valve on a tank just slightly (or opens it, then closes it again but not tightly enough.) There is a very slight gas leak.

Kids get called to dinner, maybe yelled at for being downstairs. Evening progresses. Tank continues to leak, and gas begins to build up in basement.

Later that night, someone finally thinks they smell gas. Maybe kids are told to go outside (at any rate, they're not in basement.) Adults go down to investigate. One of them switches on basement light or otherwise causes a spark, and fumes explode/ignite.

Kids panic and flee - possibly feeling that they are responsible for fire and will be punished.

I hope that local outbuildings/sheds/barns etc have been searched, as the kids might be hiding and afraid to return.

 

[TGIRecovered]

I wonder if investigators have spoken with any friends or family members who can confirm that the propane tanks were there before the fire.

Why would anyone need that many? Was the home in an area that was known to lose power for extended periods of time? Did the family keep other supplies stockpiled such as food and water, medical supplies, etc?

Did any of the propane tanks blow up?