Mystery couple murdered in South Carolina, 1976 - #6

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Swamp Fox Trot said:
I wonder if the dental records were specifically examined for signs of torture. Electric shocks can leave calcifications. Extraction was another torture method. John Doe does seem to be missing a few teeth; I wonder if they knew how recently they were pulled.

John Doe dental X-ray: http://z10.invisionfree.com/usedtobedoe/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=22012791
John Doe dental chart: http://z10.invisionfree.com/usedtobedoe/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=22012790
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There are little white dots on the front teeth---calcifications? Has anyone read the journal articles about these teeth?
 
What do we know about Cesar A. Lugones, DMD? A dentist based in Miami who is 95-years-old if he's still alive. His dentistry license is expired but it looks like he was practicing with a Roberto Lugones.

If this is Jock Doe's dad, it would explain many things: the dental work, the Sebring T-shirt, maybe even the KOA story.

I haven't been able to find out his middle name. Anybody have any idea what César Amadeo Lugones's parents and siblings were called?
 
Swamp Fox Trot said:
What do we know about Cesar A. Lugones, DMD? A dentist based in Miami who is 95-years-old if he's still alive. His dentistry license is expired but it looks like he was practicing with a Roberto Lugones.

If this is Jock Doe's dad, it would explain many things: the dental work, the Sebring T-shirt, maybe even the KOA story.

I haven't been able to find out his middle name. Anybody have any idea what César Amadeo Lugones's parents and siblings were called?
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I believe I read that César's brother was named Eugenio. I don't know if he had other siblings apart from the brother.
 
Cesar Lugones DMD was born 1917. César Amadeo Lugones born around 1956. Maybe a grandpa?
 
I am done with this case. I feel like I'm talking to a wall and frankly I worry the CIA might want to "alter my health."
 
No offense, but I see the Argentinian connection to be improbable. But mostly I feel like we can't get anywhere without some more info from LE, like DNA results etc.
 
Swamp Fox Trot said:
How do they know it was a van and not a truck? How do they know it was only one assailant? Also, I think they revised the ages up after their initial estimate . . . I'll have to look that up.
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Police believe it was a van due to the wheelbase measurements.

They do not know how many assailants there were. I personally believe this probably took two assailants. Assuming the mechanic in York, NE really did see the John Doe, then i would say they were most likely still in a vehicle when they meet the killer. This would require the car to have been disposed of later which would require two people. One to drive the victims' car, and another to drive the assailants' car. The fact that there were no defensive wounds or binding marks also suggests that this most likely involved multiple assailants.

I does appear that as the time went along the age estimate for the John Doe went up to 30 and the age estimate for Jane Doe went up to the mid 20's. After talking to different experts, it becomes appearant that age estimation is not an exact science. It is easier to pin point ages for children or up to the age of 18, but after that i can be very difficult. That is why i don't pay too much attention to this characteristic. I think we should be looking at any missing persons from 18-early 30's.
 
Swamp Fox Trot said:
Baden & Foss, Inc. is still listed as an active corporation by New York State, though in 1982 it was acquired by the late Hans G. Clapper's American Gemsmiths, now defunct. The contact listed for B&F is an international law firm, Morgan Lews & Bockius (http://www.morganlewis.com/). [American Gemsmiths also owned A. Jaffe (engagement rings) and Robert S. Fischer (gold chains etc.), both brands still active.]

In 1983 Clapper acquired wedding band manufacturer Wright & Lato Inc (800 Springdale Ave East Orange, New Jersey 07017-1226 USA tel: +1 9736748700, http://www.wrightandlato.com/), which was in 2006 acquired by Novell Design Studio (http://novelldesignstudio.com/; https://www.facebook.com/NovellWeddingBands).
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I called these numbers with no luck. This company is too old. No-one knows about it anymore. The only real shot this lead has would be to talk to family members of the owners of the business. I think this is the only real lead that could possibly lead to a name on paper that could identify this couple, assuming the ring was not bought used, which is a very real possibility. Even if it was a gift it still could be tracked back to the original owner. Can someone help me with this lead? Does anyone have access to ancestry info.? If someone can find the phone numbers to any of these family members, I will call them. Although I believe there is only a remote chance that the records still exist, this could turn out to be the lead that broke the case. I think I have mentioned before that I have seen a case solved by this exact type of lead. The victim had no ID. They did have a piece of jewelry that was bought as a gift and the initials were added to the jewelry at the store where it was bought; therefore, the order for the item had the personalized engraving message written on the order. There might be an order with "JPF" written on it somewhere I someone's attic?
 
Bobby, this looks just as intriguing abrick wall as Johnnie.
Swamp, you know too much about modern Latin American politics to be safe. Which is why I sent you a pm.
As a Spaniard, I'm weighing in on this couple. Looking at morgue photos keeps me up at night....so I don't.
In my not always humble opinion, they're absolutamente Latino. My best guess is Argentine or Venezuelan. Although it'd take me a few hours took come up w/ a reasonable explanation of why my gut tells me that.

That dental work? Can't it be traced? If they're Latino, then upper class (of course, there used to be only two classes in Latin America, upper & the rest of you pobres) b/c dental work was too expensive for anyone else. I wish I had the stamina & emotional fortitude to look at the other photos. Lo siento. I know nothing of the man's ring. What do they cost?

Oh, sorry, I'm the loudmouth from the Mickey Shunick case, my first. I'm just tracking another of Bobby's hound dog cases. :-/
 
Sorry, I should have read the Wiki first.
Latino, upper class.
What in the hell were they doing in that part of the US??
Sorry, I'll read th rest of th thread tonight.
 
1976 was the US bicentennial celebration and also the Summer Olympics in Montreal. Many tourists came from all over the world to spend time in North America that summer.
 
After rereading these threads yesterday, I was dreaming about them last night. Not sure if this has been mentioned before, but the lack of underwear on both persons, leads me to think they are of foreign origin (European). That is a common trait in countries other than the United States.
 
Donamena said:
Bobby, this looks just as intriguing abrick wall as Johnnie.
Swamp, you know too much about modern Latin American politics to be safe. Which is why I sent you a pm.
As a Spaniard, I'm weighing in on this couple. Looking at morgue photos keeps me up at night....so I don't.
In my not always humble opinion, they're absolutamente Latino. My best guess is Argentine or Venezuelan. Although it'd take me a few hours took come up w/ a reasonable explanation of why my gut tells me that.

That dental work? Can't it be traced? If they're Latino, then upper class (of course, there used to be only two classes in Latin America, upper & the rest of you pobres) b/c dental work was too expensive for anyone else. I wish I had the stamina & emotional fortitude to look at the other photos. Lo siento. I know nothing of the man's ring. What do they cost?

Oh, sorry, I'm the loudmouth from the Mickey Shunick case, my first. I'm just tracking another of Bobby's hound dog cases. :-/
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Linde Star Rings were not that expensive 500.00 would be max I would think. The range could be anywhere from 200-500 at best. As I recall, gold was not all that expensive back then either.
 
I am just thinking out loud here. I was up during the night thinking about this, and realized something is really not right. I have camped in my lifetime, and know lots of people who still camp. While camping, I have never gone and gotten a manicure or pedicure. Could it be that they really were not camping but encountered the person from the KOA someplace else? Could the person from the KOA just be a "smoking gun." (No pun intended)

The next thing I thought was well, back in the 1970's my parents had a camper that was on the back of a truck. There was a little door on it that you stepped up through, and it slept about 4-6 people. Perhaps they were camping in something like that, and instead of a van that they stepped out of (according to the police report) maybe it was their own camper, and that is why none of their belongings were found...someone drove off with their possessions including the camper??

Seems that if somone had just had a pedicuure, the person who gave it might have come forward.
 
Bubblyone said:
I am just thinking out loud here. I was up during the night thinking about this, and realized something is really not right. I have camped in my lifetime, and know lots of people who still camp. While camping, I have never gone and gotten a manicure or pedicure. Could it be that they really were not camping but encountered the person from the KOA someplace else? Could the person from the KOA just be a "smoking gun." (No pun intended)

The next thing I thought was well, back in the 1970's my parents had a camper that was on the back of a truck. There was a little door on it that you stepped up through, and it slept about 4-6 people. Perhaps they were camping in something like that, and instead of a van that they stepped out of (according to the police report) maybe it was their own camper, and that is why none of their belongings were found...someone drove off with their possessions including the camper??

Seems that if somone had just had a pedicuure, the person who gave it might have come forward.
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She had a recent manicure, but she wore shorts & her legs were unshaven?
Interesting.
 
Bubblyone said:
I am just thinking out loud here. I was up during the night thinking about this, and realized something is really not right. I have camped in my lifetime, and know lots of people who still camp. While camping, I have never gone and gotten a manicure or pedicure. Could it be that they really were not camping but encountered the person from the KOA someplace else? Could the person from the KOA just be a "smoking gun." (No pun intended)

The next thing I thought was well, back in the 1970's my parents had a camper that was on the back of a truck. There was a little door on it that you stepped up through, and it slept about 4-6 people. Perhaps they were camping in something like that, and instead of a van that they stepped out of (according to the police report) maybe it was their own camper, and that is why none of their belongings were found...someone drove off with their possessions including the camper??

Seems that if somone had just had a pedicuure, the person who gave it might have come forward.
Click to expand...

It's not uncommon for hikers, or campers who plan to do a lot of walking, to have a pedicure before they leave. It makes sure toenails and calluses are smoothed and greatly reduces the chance of getting blisters. Some hikers even give themselves regular pedicures on long hikes, for the same reason.

I won't say it's routine, but it's not surprising, either.
 
It would mean rather than think "THEY" are the hitch hikers, it means they probably picked up a KILLER hitch hiker?

Who not only killed them , but also stole everything they had.
So? wonder if at any time in any town was an abandoned car or truck or camper found and just junked?Or possibly burned to conceal evidence?
 
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