GUILTY OR - Whitney Heichel, 21, Gresham, 16 Oct 2012 #3

[PoirotryInMotion]

Was CH "off" Oct 16th or was he home sick that day?

I have seen it reported both ways.


If he was sick that day the I have two points.

That makes more sense about Whitney's boss asking if she "decided to be sick today"
(or however it was worded)

It also makes me wonder if Clint's "illness" could have been a part oF JH's "plan"
knowing Clint was sick helped give him opportunity to nab WH

I've seen it reported both ways (home sick being explained as recovering from the flu). It's also reported that he didn't stay home after the call from her boss, but drove around to her folks' house (who live locally) and to an area hospital and also called friends before calling police:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2221422/Whitney-Heichel-Husband-speaks-murder-wife.html (scroll about 2 inches down):

'(At) about 8:15 her boss called me and said, "Hey, I was just curious, did Whitney decide to be sick or not feeling well? Have you seen her or talked to her?"' he told KATU.

Mr Heichel tried calling and texting her, but she did not respond.

Worried, he drove to her parents' home and then to a hospital in the area, as well as calling family and friends to see if anyone knew of her whereabouts.

When they could provide no further information, he called police to report her missing at 9.56am, and friends and family began distributing flyers and searching for her.

I am a little curious (being lazy myself ) why he didn't just also call her folks and the hospital instead of driving around--seems it'd be a faster way to see if she were there. I suppose panic knows no reason sometimes.

 

[gngr~snap]

I've seen it reported both ways (home sick being explained as recovering from the flu). It's also reported that he didn't stay home after the call from her boss, but drove around to her folks' house (who live locally) and to an area hospital and also called friends before calling police:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2221422/Whitney-Heichel-Husband-speaks-murder-wife.html (scroll about 2 inches down):

I am a little curious (being lazy myself ) why he didn't just also call her folks and the hospital instead of driving around--seems it'd be a faster way to see if she were there

.

I wondered the same and decided the parents must have been at work... no one home , so he went to make sure she was not at her parents?

Not sure why...


:moo: I'm reallly not picking on CH! I have questions/concerns that I am trying to resolve with a little "help from my friends" ~ :twocents:

 

[Ashfox]

I've seen it reported both ways (home sick being explained as recovering from the flu). It's also reported that he didn't stay home after the call from her boss, but drove around to her folks' house (who live locally) and to an area hospital and also called friends before calling police:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2221422/Whitney-Heichel-Husband-speaks-murder-wife.html (scroll about 2 inches down):


I am a little curious (being lazy myself ) why he didn't just also call her folks and the hospital instead of driving around--seems it'd be a faster way to see if she were there.

I am glad you posted this I had meant to ask how many cars were in the household and forgot so there were 2.

Speaking personally if someone was missing I dont think I could sit in the house I have a better feeling if I am out and about I have had issues where my mom wasnt answering her phone and instead of just trying to call I showed up at her door... lol although after joining WS I call my mother every single day now or at least send a goodnight txt to make sure she was okay and shes 60 soooo lol

 

[Ronso]

I am a little curious (being lazy myself ) why he didn't just also call her folks and the hospital instead of driving around--seems it'd be a faster way to see if she were there.

The hospital could not release information to him over the phone so he would've had to drive there. (Due to HIPAA laws)

And yes, the parents may have been at work, or didn't answer the phone when he called, so he drove over.

 

[over-thinker]

I have a question for the JW's on this thread. I am not trying to step on toes or come across as disrespectful, but I have a question about the rules in the religion. In the article I just read it sounds as if she voluntarily LET him in the vehicle, but then things went South rather quickly.

My question is does the religion take any kind of stance on her going against the rules. If she truly did let him in the vehicle, is it frowned upon or a sin of the religion? Is it sort of a "this is why" thing? I guess I'm just trying to understand.

http://www.kndu.com/story/19893010/oregon-man-admits-to-barista-killing

 

[msthinksalot]

When he has his court date on Friday what will most likely happen? He has confessed is this pretty cut and dry? I am not familiar with the process.

As of yesterday, JH did not have an attorney and during his arraignment the judge stated that he would be appointed one in the next 48-72 hours.

His next court appearance could be what is called a preliminary hearing, where the DA presents the State's case, although he could waive his right to a preliminary hearing (a lot do) and proceed directly to grand jury. He will have the option to enter a plea after the preliminary hearing (if they have one), but will definitely do so after the grand jury.

From then on they will begin pretrial negotiations, where the DA and the defense attorney will discuss the case and determine whether or not they will be able to settle out of court. They will discuss the defendant's prior criminal history (if they have one), they will examine evidence, etc. They will make status reports to the court on the progress/status of any negotiations. If they work out a deal they will have a pre-trial conference where they present the deal to the court, etc.

If they do not achieve a deal, they will proceed to trial. A defendant has a right to a jury trial but could waive that right and ask for their trial to be heard by a judge instead.

Sentencing is the final step, after a defendant enters a plea agreement (guilty) or is found guilty via trial.

ETA/FWIW: something like 95% of cases settle without going to trial.

 

[Ashfox]

thanks so much msthinksalot!!

 

[Melancholy]

<snip>
My question is does the religion take any kind of stance on her going against the rules. If she truly did let him in the vehicle, is it frowned upon or a sin of the religion? Is it sort of a "this is why" thing? I guess I'm just trying to understand.

Again, to reiterate...it's not a 'rule', it's a precaution...there's no RULE against it.

For instance, if I saw my married friend get into the car with her best friends' husband to go pick up a pizza, my reaction would be "ohhhh girl, bad idea...that's how rumors start"....it would NOT be "Ohhhh girl, she is going to be in BIG TROUBLE if she gets tattled on".

It doesn't work that way.

My *only reason for bringing it up in the first place (as another JW previously had pointed out) that it would be highly unlikely she'd willingly go into a car alone with him because from a religious standpoint she (and he!) would know that it's a situation most JW's would avoid to spare the temptation to commit adultery, to leave no room for people to speculate on what you are up to, etc. It's not a rule, just a way to protect the sanctity of marriage/protect against rumors of impropriety, etc.

Would our religion 'take a stance' against her? My word, no.


EDIT TO ADD:
and honestly, if I saw the NEIGHBORS that I don't know, and the husband and wife of two separate couples got into a car to go somewhere alone I'd be like "oh, what's up with THAT?" ahahaha, so I'm not trying to sound persnickety or anything...but the kind of reaction that I would have to our pretend neighbor scenario, is the kind of thing we avoid when we try not to go of alone with a person of the opposite sex that we aren't married to.

 

[Melancholy]

I know there's a lot we don't know, and facts that haven't added up yet. There are speculations and assumptions. There are gut feelings across the board.

BUT

Operating under the assumption that they 'got the guy' and there's nothing else to have to look for (yes I know some thing he didn't act alone, some think he may have confessed under duress, etc.) but just assuming there's no more to know....



I really REALLY hope that he can just let this wrap up, give them all the details, let them have all the closure they need, and let the CH, WH's family and friends, JH's wife and family, and his shocked friends begin to HEAL and not put them through trial after trial and appeals, etc.etc.etc.

 

[Knox]

No time to read back. Yesterday a reporter tweeted about a call from JH's wife to the police last year. A member here, said it was to report him missing. Has anything else been disclosed on this?

 

[sweetpeas]

I have a question for the JW's on this thread. I am not trying to step on toes or come across as disrespectful, but I have a question about the rules in the religion. In the article I just read it sounds as if she voluntarily LET him in the vehicle, but then things went South rather quickly.

My question is does the religion take any kind of stance on her going against the rules. If she truly did let him in the vehicle, is it frowned upon or a sin of the religion? Is it sort of a "this is why" thing? I guess I'm just trying to understand.

http://www.kndu.com/story/19893010/oregon-man-admits-to-barista-killing

There's no rules against that! It's a precaution. She is not looking upon as bad for doing that. She simply trusted the wrong person.

And yesterday I read a question as to why was it that the volunteers found things so quickly. It wasn't only one set of volunteers, it was many of them checking everywhere they could think of. If he had confessed to anybody they would've turned him in to LE asap. We respect the authorities completely and wouldn't do anything to jeopardize any case.

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

The hospital could not release information to him over the phone so he would've had to drive there. (Due to HIPAA laws)

And yes, the parents may have been at work, or didn't answer the phone when he called, so he drove over.

The hospital will tell an immediate relative of a person if that person is in the ER or has been admitted; just not any other info. (We've gone through that twice.)

 

[gngr~snap]

Again, to reiterate...it's not a 'rule', it's a precaution...there's no RULE against it.

For instance, if I saw my married friend get into the car with her best friends' husband to go pick up a pizza, my reaction would be "ohhhh girl, bad idea...that's how rumors start"....it would NOT be "Ohhhh girl, she is going to be in BIG TROUBLE if she gets tattled on".

It doesn't work that way.

My *only reason for bringing it up in the first place (as another JW previously had pointed out) that it would be highly unlikely she'd willingly go into a car alone with him because from a religious standpoint she (and he!) would know that it's a situation most JW's would avoid to spare the temptation to commit adultery, to leave no room for people to speculate on what you are up to, etc. It's not a rule, just a way to protect the sanctity of marriage/protect against rumors of impropriety, etc.

Would our religion 'take a stance' against her? My word, no.


EDIT TO ADD:
and honestly, if I saw the NEIGHBORS that I don't know, and the husband and wife of two separate couples got into a car to go somewhere alone I'd be like "oh, what's up with THAT?" ahahaha, so I'm not trying to sound persnickety or anything...but the kind of reaction that I would have to our pretend neighbor scenario, is the kind of thing we avoid when we try not to go of alone with a person of the opposite sex that we aren't married to.

One Choice Can Save Your Life...

Joyce Meyers preaches the same. FWIW

One bad decision can alter your destiny
The power of wisdom.

*Being married and in a "carpool"... for instance...

*I think she means "affair proof" the marriage,
not that you will end up dead...
BUT as we have seen it can happen.
moo

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&...ap9oR5&sig=AHIEtbS86NUBFOUM1KfXsZp0GdCwbpIusg

 

[Elainera]

Pigs are fascinating and extremely smart animals. I'm not seeing the connection between pigs to Jonathan Holt. I know it's just a figure of speech but language defines an enormous part of who we are. It always bothers me when sick criminals get called by this wonderful creatures' name. Unfortunately, most pigs would identify much more with the victim in this crime, than the perp. Sorry - the advocacy nature I was born with applies to victims of all stripes. In particular, the animals. I know you didn't mean any harm to them.

Thank you for that CaringCitizen! Love animals too very much and have a huge respect for them!

No time to read back. Yesterday a reporter tweeted about a call from JH's wife to the police last year. A member here, said it was to report him missing. Has anything else been disclosed on this?

Not to my knowledge.

 

[Knox]

I know there's a lot we don't know, and facts that haven't added up yet. There are speculations and assumptions. There are gut feelings across the board.

BUT

Operating under the assumption that they 'got the guy' and there's nothing else to have to look for (yes I know some thing he didn't act alone, some think he may have confessed under duress, etc.) but just assuming there's no more to know....



I really REALLY hope that he can just let this wrap up, give them all the details, let them have all the closure they need, and let the CH, WH's family and friends, JH's wife and family, and his shocked friends begin to HEAL and not put them through trial after trial and appeals, etc.etc.etc.

I won't be surprised if Holt works out a plea deal.

As to all the discussion regarding two people being alone together and whether that is appropriate. None of that is unique to the JW faith. Our Pastor has preached on this subject too. Without getting into a lot of details, it boils down to this; the flesh is weak, don't put yourself in situations where something can happen. Sound advice :moo:

 

[msthinksalot]

As to all the discussion regarding two people being alone together and whether that is appropriate. None of that is unique to the JW faith. Our Pastor has preached on this subject too. Without getting into a lot of details, it boils down to this; the flesh is weak, don't put yourself in situations where something can happen. Sound advice :moo:

Yes, I have religious Jewish, Christian and Buddhist friends who believe/practice the same thing.

 

[Ronso]

The hospital will tell an immediate relative of a person if that person is in the ER or has been admitted; just not any other info. (We've gone through that twice.)

Here, they will not give out info about patients over the phone. It just doesn't happen. I know from experience and my husband (who is a nurse) says the same. Maybe it's different where you are, but here, you cannot call in a hospital and ask if somebody is there. They will not give you that information (How would they know you were actually their spouse over the phone, KWIM?).

 

[OldSteve]

Heichel, who knew Holt, obliged. About five minutes into the ride, police said Holt pulled out a handgun and forced Heichel to drive to Roslyn Lake in Clackamas County. -
http://www.katu.com/news/local/Repo...d-from-multiple-gunshot-wounds-175262191.html

But that's his side of the story - I don't believe she went with him willing! Seen so many cases where the perp/ will say his victim willing went with him...

 

[Solariis]

As a few others have said, there are just a few things that do not add up here.

1.) If WH left at 6:45am to get to work before 7:00am, where did he supposedly ask her to give him a ride to exactly that would take so little time, she could still arrive to work before 7 and if it was that short of a distance, why would he need a ride in the first place?

2.) If JH waited 5 minutes after 6:45am to pull the gun on her and forced her to go straight to Roslyn Lake to force her to perform oral sex on him, how is it possible that he killed her then showed up at gas stations NORTH of where the lake was at a later time in the morning? It is only 14 miles from their apartment complex (Heatherwood Apartments) to the address listed on the probable cause document. Here is a map showing the driving directions from the apartments to the lake where he supposedly did the deed: http://goo.gl/maps/a9ZB2

And here is another map showing where the items were located throughout the areas north of the apartments:
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/10/22/article-2221422-1594F5E7000005DC-644_634x416.jpg

Based on where they found her cell phone and her vehicle north of Gresham, and he really did force her to drive them to the lake right around 7:00-7:15am that morning, it would seem that he committed the crimes at the lake, dumps his cell phone there, goes back north and stops at the gas station at 9:14am when her card was used (was WH still in the vehicle at that time, after he shot her?), drove to the mountain to dump the body (while also dumping the license plate), then on his way back, threw her cell phone out into some bushes while driving the SUV shortly before finally stopping at the WalMart to dump the vehicle.

3.) If JH shot WH after the sexual abuse, it is not clear how the police have not found a single drop of blood either in the vehicle or at the location JH told LE he committed the murder. Not only that, but how could he transport her bleeding body after 4 gunshot wounds all the way to the mountain without any blood getting anywhere in the car? He brought plastic bags or a blanket or cover or something with him? If so, how would that not have seemed very suspicious to WH when he asked for a ride?

None of this is adding up to what JH told LE. It seems there are just too many details missing right now for any sort of conclusive findings.

 

[Ashfox]

<modsnip>

<modsnip>? With the WH I see just the opposite, authorities were alerted right away...


<modsnip>