Mystery couple murdered in South Carolina, 1976 - #6

[youshouldveknown]

I'm curious to know what criteria was used to determine that they had recent manis and pedis. Were her nails painted? Or were the nails all simply clean and clipped, similar to what most people do for maintenance? Was there something that points directly to a professional job?

I'm just curious because if someone saw my finger and toenails they might think I went to a salon, but I actually do them myself. I keep clippers and an emery board with me and I know a lot of women who care for their nails do.

 

[Alice Bernadette]

After rereading these threads yesterday, I was dreaming about them last night. Not sure if this has been mentioned before, but the lack of underwear on both persons, leads me to think they are of foreign origin (European). That is a common trait in countries other than the United States.

It is common practice to wear underwear in Europe and Australia (has been for generations). I can't vouch firsthand for other parts of the world but I'm pretty sure underwear is also worn in South American countries.

 

[carbuff]

I don't know about Europeans, but it was pretty common for hippies on the road to skip the underwear. There was a minor epidemic of crotch rot in the mid-70's.

 

[Bubblyone]

It is common practice to wear underwear in Europe and Australia (has been for generations). I can't vouch firsthand for other parts of the world but I'm pretty sure underwear is also worn in South American countries.

I have traveled extensively through Europe, there are lots who do not practice the art of wearing underwear..lots of French do not. It was also a custom to not shave legs once upon a time in Europe, that may have changed by now.

 

[Swamp Fox Trot]

Prime Suspect = Orlando Bosch: https://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=77563&relPageId=5

Miami-based terrorist Orlando Bosch admitted working for the Argentine Anticommunist Alliance (AAA), a paramilitary group, setting up contract killings: "Because of the contacts we made down there we set up the murder of two Cuban diplomats [in Buenos Aires]." They also conducted hits in Europe (Leighton) and America (Letelier).

The victims' clothing (Sebring T-shirt) and the road itself (I-95) lead to Miami. The murder weapon belonged to a paratrooper from North Carolina. The Cuban exiles are known to have recruited mercenaries from Fort Bragg.

Isn't it possible these were political exiles? Killed for political reasons? María Marta Vázquez de Ocampo was a diplomat's daughter, and she and her husband were politically active in their own right. They sure look like the Sumter County (SC) Does to me.

 

[liz b.]

Prime Suspect = Orlando Bosch: https://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=77563&relPageId=5

Miami-based terrorist Orlando Bosch admitted working for the Argentine Anticommunist Alliance (AAA), a paramilitary group, setting up contract killings: "Because of the contacts we made down there we set up the murder of two Cuban diplomats [in Buenos Aires]." They also conducted hits in Europe (Leighton) and America (Letelier).

The victims' clothing (Sebring T-shirt) and the road itself (I-95) lead to Miami. The murder weapon belonged to a paratrooper from North Carolina. The Cuban exiles are known to have recruited mercenaries from Fort Bragg.

Isn't it possible these were political exiles? Killed for political reasons? María Marta Vázquez de Ocampo was a diplomat's daughter, and she and her husband were politically active in their own right. They sure look like the Sumter County (SC) Does to me.

Anything's possible...but why not dump their bodies out in the 'glades.Where they would never have been found ? moo

 

[Swamp Fox Trot]

Anything's possible...but why not dump their bodies out in the 'glades.Where they would never have been found ? moo

Maybe for variety? Cuban exile terrorists conducted something like 200 assassinations and bombings within two years. They might have mixed it up to prevent investigators from linking the case to their other killings.

Driving victims hours out into the country and shooting them by the roadside was a standard practice in the Dirty War. There is another case off I-95 (near Yemassee, SC) where investigators believe the body was in a trunk for 12 hours---enough time to drive from Miami or New York.

Also the contractor might not have had a boat or might have been more familiar with SC than the Everglades, or may have been affected by weather (Hurricane Belle).

 

[websurfer]

This killer used a .357 magnum
All of his female victims had blonde hair.
He may have been killing before his capture in 1984 .
The MO he has though seems to be his obsession with the movie"FLASHDANCE"
according to the female he had as a victim/helper.
He cut a few of his victims hair .
The reason I am mentioning this serial killer is the connection he had with
Auto Racing in Miami.
I was thinking perhaps he did cross paths with this couple at some point?

Maybe he was surprised she had a male companion?
And shot them both[ he was known to steal his vicitms cars too]
Often killing then changing license plates and driving many miles and even backtracking.
He was in these staes and passed I am sure near SC and NC
Florida
Pennsylvania
Ohio
Utah
New York, Rochester
Boston, Massachusetts
Colebrook ,New Hamshire
Presscott, Az.
Indiana
Niagra falls , N.Y.
Page, AZ.
Las vegas
of course he got in trouble in Australia

what I am saying is this:
He did shoot, stab, suffocate his victims and with all his travels he may have killed this couple?

 

[SeaSpur]

Not that it may be very important, but have the ever released a photo of the matchbook from the Grants truck stop?

I found an image of what they look like online and wanted to cross reference to make sure it was the same truck stop chain. It won't prove they were at one of these locations, but it would add some clarity.

Which brings me to another question...was it ever identified that either of them were smokers? I'd imagine if you carried a matchbook, it was likely. And if so, and they were walking...maybe he had recently smoked a cigarette which could have been near the crime scene- giving an idea if they were there willingly or dropped at that location.

I've seen photos of the missing- but are there any large/good resolution photos of the crime scene? What about autopsy or crime report from the actual police? Once a crime has gone unsolved for this amount of time, I don't see the harm in releasing every bit you have...especially since this is a "identify" rather than "prosecute" case now.

Another thing that confuses me is the likely possibility that these two had accents...and in the South, we REALLY are able to spot them out and it would almost be something you'd be sure to remember (like a "you ain't from around here" type thing). I know I always remember when I meet a "foreigner" and I am sure during those times, it was even more rare. Surely they had conversation with people during the time they were in the area.

 

[Tear Drop]

They have not released a picture of the matchbook. Grants truck stop did have an unusual spelling, because it did not use an apostrophe before the "S". There were 3 Grants truck stops in the US; Nebraska, New Mexico and Idaho; A mechanic at the Grants truck stop in York, NE claimed to have worked on the Jane and John Doe's vehicle. He remembered the vehicle having Oregon or Washington plates. This was reported in the newspapers; however, there was no mention of the vehicle description. I am currently trying to track down this elusive mechanic. Detectives believe the couple was driving a van based on the wheel base. (The Mcminn's were from Oregon. See my other posts).

I have never heard any cigarettes being recovered from the crime scene. It would be interesting to know if they had. The John Doe tested positive for nicotine and the Jane Doe did not (This is true for the Mcminns as well).

The only witness to have reportedly talked to the John Doe was David Batson who had supposedly shot pool with the John Doe. His statement never mentioned an accent. His statement was that he had seen the couple in 1975 not 1976 which is a full year before their death. He also stated they were from Canada so that means either they went back to Canada(or somewhere else) in 1975 and came back in 1976, or they were in the Sumter area the entire year, or they were never there and he is mistaken about the couple he saw as being the couple in the photos. I tend to believe that he was mistaken. The first two seem very unlikely. I don't want to down Sumter, but it is not a place where I would think people go to vacation two years in a row considering they are from such a far distance away. Also, it took him 6 months after their death before he came forward with this info. This makes it even less likely that the information is reliable (see my previous posts about David Batson). On the other hand, what if they were in the area for some other reason criminal or otherwise and not on vacation. He might be with an IMSA racing team or a race fan. I think if they would have had an accent the police report would have contained that info..

Swamp Fox will appreciate this nugget. I have heard of an account of a lady who owned a supermarket having seen the couple, and she recalled seeing the couple with a Federal Agent, but could not remember the specific agency. She only recalled that they were polite and the Federal agent paid for everything with a federally issued credit card. Her account does not mention an accent either.

 

[Tear Drop]

They have not released a picture of the matchbook. Grants truck stop did have an unusual spelling, because it did not use an apostrophe before the "S". There were 3 Grants truck stops in the US; Nebraska, New Mexico and Idaho; A mechanic at the Grants truck stop in York, NE claimed to have worked on the Jane and John Doe's vehicle. He remembered the vehicle having Oregon or Washington plates. This was reported in the newspapers; however, there was no mention of the vehicle description. I am currently trying to track down this elusive mechanic. Detectives believe the couple was driving a van based on the wheel base. (The Mcminn's were from Oregon. See my other posts).

I have never heard any cigarettes being recovered from the crime scene. It would be interesting to know if they had. The John Doe tested positive for nicotine and the Jane Doe did not (This is true for the Mcminns as well).

The only witness to have reportedly talked to the John Doe was David Batson who had supposedly shot pool with the John Doe. His statement never mentioned an accent. His statement was that he had seen the couple in 1975 not 1976 which is a full year before their death. He also stated they were from Canada so that means either they went back to Canada(or somewhere else) in 1975 and came back in 1976, or they were in the Sumter area the entire year, or they were never there and he is mistaken about the couple he saw as being the couple in the photos. I tend to believe that he was mistaken. The first two seem very unlikely. I don't want to down Sumter, but it is not a place where I would think people go to vacation two years in a row considering they are from such a far distance away. Also, it took him 6 months after their death before he came forward with this info. This makes it even less likely that the information is reliable (see my previous posts about David Batson). On the other hand, what if they were in the area for some other reason criminal or otherwise and not on vacation. He might be with an IMSA racing team or a race fan. I think if they would have had an accent the police report would have contained that info..

Swamp Fox will appreciate this nugget. I have heard of an account of a lady who owned a supermarket having seen the couple, and she recalled seeing the couple with a Federal Agent, but could not remember the specific agency. She only recalled that they were polite and the Federal agent paid for everything with a federally issued credit card. Her account does not mention an accent either.

 

[Bubblyone]

They have not released a picture of the matchbook. Grants truck stop did have an unusual spelling, because it did not use an apostrophe before the "S". There were 3 Grants truck stops in the US; Nebraska, New Mexico and Idaho; A mechanic at the Grants truck stop in York, NE claimed to have worked on the Jane and John Doe's vehicle. He remembered the vehicle having Oregon or Washington plates. This was reported in the newspapers; however, there was no mention of the vehicle description. I am currently trying to track down this elusive mechanic. Detectives believe the couple was driving a van based on the wheel base. (The Mcminn's were from Oregon. See my other posts).

I have never heard any cigarettes being recovered from the crime scene. It would be interesting to know if they had. The John Doe tested positive for nicotine and the Jane Doe did not (This is true for the Mcminns as well).

The only witness to have reportedly talked to the John Doe was David Batson who had supposedly shot pool with the John Doe. His statement never mentioned an accent. His statement was that he had seen the couple in 1975 not 1976 which is a full year before their death. He also stated they were from Canada so that means either they went back to Canada(or somewhere else) in 1975 and came back in 1976, or they were in the Sumter area the entire year, or they were never there and he is mistaken about the couple he saw as being the couple in the photos. I tend to believe that he was mistaken. The first two seem very unlikely. I don't want to down Sumter, but it is not a place where I would think people go to vacation two years in a row considering they are from such a far distance away. Also, it took him 6 months after their death before he came forward with this info. This makes it even less likely that the information is reliable (see my previous posts about David Batson). On the other hand, what if they were in the area for some other reason criminal or otherwise and not on vacation. He might be with an IMSA racing team or a race fan. I think if they would have had an accent the police report would have contained that info..

Swamp Fox will appreciate this nugget. I have heard of an account of a lady who owned a supermarket having seen the couple, and she recalled seeing the couple with a Federal Agent, but could not remember the specific agency. She only recalled that they were polite and the Federal agent paid for everything with a federally issued credit card. Her account does not mention an accent either.

Thank you for this post. This last note to Swamp Fox is interesting, especially since the gun was found under the seat of a known informant, and I have to beleive that LE thought he was involved. Maybe LE was told to shut up and stay out of it. Perhaps this is why all these years later, these two people are still unidentified. What the US Govt corrupt? Surely you jest?

 

[Swamp Fox Trot]

I don't want to down Sumter, but it is not a place where I would think people go to vacation two years in a row considering they are from such a far distance away.

Just to clarify, the crime scene is closer to Florence than to the namesake seat of Sumter County. Florence is a mini-hub between I-95 and Myrtle Beach.

 

[Swamp Fox Trot]

Swamp Fox will appreciate this nugget. I have heard of an account of a lady who owned a supermarket having seen the couple, and she recalled seeing the couple with a Federal Agent, but could not remember the specific agency. She only recalled that they were polite and the Federal agent paid for everything with a federally issued credit card. Her account does not mention an accent either.

The FBI was looking for communist safe houses in the US, using addresses obtained from revolutionaries interrogated in South America. I wonder if this pair were brought along to identify them.

 

[Swamp Fox Trot]

A mechanic at the Grants truck stop in York, NE claimed to have worked on the Jane and John Doe's vehicle. He remembered the vehicle having Oregon or Washington plates. This was reported in the newspapers; however, there was no mention of the vehicle description.

Do you have a link for this? I did find a mechanic working on a van mentioned, but in Florence (see p. 2 "Slain Girl," The Item, August 16, 1976): http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=xUT3DyvLuJwC&dat=19760816&printsec=frontpage&hl=en

 

[STANDREID]

Forgive me if this has been mentioned but do we have DNA from this couple at least to eliminate the possibility that they could have been related like brother and sister?

Also, did anyone who thought they might have talked to the couple notice that they had a foreign accent?

 

[Swamp Fox Trot]

Did anyone track Hurricane Sandy as it made its way up the East Coast? There was a hurricane (Belle) off the coast of the Carolinas when these two were killed; it followed a similar track, making landfall at Long Island, NY.

 

[Tear Drop]

Do you have a link for this? I did find a mechanic working on a van mentioned, but in Florence (see p. 2 "Slain Girl," The Item, August 16, 1976): http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=xUT3DyvLuJwC&dat=19760816&printsec=frontpage&hl=en

I have not seen the article you added a link for. It was interesting to hear they had a lead to a garage in Florence. It would be nice to find out what prompted the lead and what made LE decide it was no good. Thanks for that.

I was referring to the first link, but after some more digging i found another article wher a VAN was actually mentioned as the vehicle the mechanic worked on. That sounds even more credible considering LE believe a van was at the crime scene. What happened to the van?

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/156/highpointnorthcarolinashs0.jpg/

http://news.google.com/newspapers?i...,8825923&dq=mechanic+sumter+murder+1976&hl=en

 

[Tear Drop]

Forgive me if this has been mentioned but do we have DNA from this couple at least to eliminate the possibility that they could have been related like brother and sister?

Also, did anyone who thought they might have talked to the couple notice that they had a foreign accent?

There has been NO mention that DNA has been used to determine if they are brother and sister.

There was NO report of them speaking with an accent. This makes me lean towards them being American.

 

[Tear Drop]

Thank you for this post. This last note to Swamp Fox is interesting, especially since the gun was found under the seat of a known informant, and I have to beleive that LE thought he was involved. Maybe LE was told to shut up and stay out of it. Perhaps this is why all these years later, these two people are still unidentified. What the US Govt corrupt? Surely you jest?

Do you have a link for Lonnie Henry being an informant? Also, i have heard you mention that he was a paratrooper. Could you add a link for that as well.