GUILTY OR - Whitney Heichel, 21, Gresham, 16 Oct 2012 #4

[recyclops]

I thought the charged term was "sodomy" not "rape"? Maybe I missed some new info.

ur correct. it is sodomy...i wonder why sodomy and not rape

 

[nikb]

I believe robbery, kidnapping and rape were additional charges added on Friday.

That's what I recall as well. I wonder if the "rape" charge is the same as, or part of, the "sodomy" charge. I initially didn't realize that at least in some cases oral sex is considered "sodomy." I would assume it could be considered rape also. There are several counts of murder all related to killing of one person, so it makes sense to me that multiple charges could be filed for a single sex offense too.

 

[nikb]

That's what I recall as well. I wonder if the "rape" charge is the same as, or part of, the "sodomy" charge. I initially didn't realize that at least in some cases oral sex is considered "sodomy." I would assume it could be considered rape also. There are several counts of murder all related to killing of one person, so it makes sense to me that multiple charges could be filed for a single sex offense too.

Oh oops! Sorry, I was a little behind. I swore there was a rape charge initially but maybe not. I thought the sodomy charge was there from the beginning, so I'm confused seeing that article about it being a new charge. Hmmm.

 

[Solariis]

A few questions that have remained unanswered and still stick out in my mind after reviewing the arrest affidavit:

1.) JH stated he had two identical Smith & Wesson 9mm and a Keltec 9mm. He said he sold all of them to his dad except one of the Smith & Wessons (we know this is not true since LE observed him ditching 2 of them and both were as described). We also learned that he purchased one of these Smith & Wessons from Keith's Sporting Goods in Gresham on June 26th which is only about 4 months prior. So why did he take Two guns with him for this murder and did he use both of them or were all of the 4 shell casings found inside the vehicle from the same gun? And where is the 3rd gun he spoke of? I believe the number of guns he had (especially knowing his wife did not like guns as stated in the document) and prior unknown whereabouts (August 2011) and his getting caught peeping by their next door neighbor's wife further implicate that this could potentially not be his first attempt.

2.) Does the white utility vehicle have anything to do with JH leaving the WalMart parking lot after dumping the Explorer? I believe this is completely a coincidence of timing and no evidence has pointed to a 2nd person being involved in this crime as of yet so we have to assume he acted alone unless something better than "A white utility vehicle was seen on video entering and crossing the parking lot and leaving about 20 minutes later".

3.) August 2011, Jonathan Holt disappeared for 12+ hours with the stolen rental car. He told family, friends and LE that he just needed to "Clear his head" and his statement during that time missing over 1 year ago was almost identical to what he told Amanda & Evan Judd (friends from their church) when they found him walking on SW 257th Ave & Stark Street (roughly right at the Regal Stark Street Stadium 10 Movie Theater). He told them that he had been robbed that morning so he spent the day "walking around trying to clear his head". Very suspicious since that's nearly the same thing he said in August last year when he went missing.

Also, this appears to be roughly 2.8 miles from the Walmart. This further leads me to believe he walked away from Walmart rather than being picked up by an accomplice. Here's a map from Walmart to where the Judd's found him:

http://goo.gl/maps/g8507

4.) Bottom of page 6 and top of page 7 out of 44 on the affidavit: "While the search warrant was being executed Jonathan Holt continued to be interviewed by Sergeant Harrington and Detective Seymour, Jonathan Holt admitted that his iPad, Asus gaming laptop and several external (computer) drives and flash drives were in his backpack and that he has a lot of *advertiser censored* that he had been collecting on his laptop and external drives and there would be some child *advertiser censored* on them. Jonathan Holt told them it was all the stuff that he had downloaded. The interview of Jonathan Holt continued and he disclosed that he had entered Whitney and Clinton Heiche's apartment and stole an iPhone 3G from a dresser drawer. Jonathan Holt told them that he took the stolen cell phone and had a new SIM card put in it and then used it as his own."

Why is he just gushing information to LE and admitting all of these crimes outright when LE probably had no idea of these other issues outside of the murder? It's very odd that he is admitting to additional felonies that do not seem to relate directly to the murder? You really think they accused him of breaking and entering the Heichel's apartment to steal a phone and also of downloading illegal material during the interview of a murder investigation? It just doesn't make sense why he's volunteering these additional details, was he overwhelmed with guilt during the interview?

_________________________________________________

On another note, based on all of these details in the affidavit, it's clearly obvious that the entire story to provide an alibi of his whereabouts from the morning through 6:50pm on the day of WH's murder was completely made up with details changed constantly (which is what led LE to believe he was a suspect).

As far as how smart or dumb JH is, I'm not sure you could quantify his intelligence from a GPA but I do know you couldn't be any more careless about the "cleanup" he attempted. He left the shell casings in the SUV along with a ton of other evidence including copious amounts of blood spots and pooling and brain spatter along with skull fragments and clumps of hair. He left the front license plate at a place near the body which ultimately led to them finding it. He could have burned the empty boxes of ammo he left in a dumpster, burned the cloth and garments stained with blood he threw in the Walmart dumpster, gotten rid of the guns way before the time he scheduled to go to the police station for another interview, NOT brought his laptop and external drives with illegal material on it with him to the station, and this list goes on...He just seems all around extremely careless when scattering the evidence all over the place.

It's almost like he wanted her body to be found but he didn't expect to get tied to the murder? I simply can't understand how anyone could be this obvious and careless if they were going to take the time to attempt a cover up or cleanup at all.

 

[Quester]

Great post Solariis!

I think the whole “robbers”, abduction, sex act, killing (4 bullets, maybe from 2 guns), strewing about of evidence, etc – all of it was probably carefully planned to appear like a robbery of JH and a subsequent, targeted abduction/murder of WH by the "robbers".

"Robbers" who just happened to cherry pick through JH’s backpack and return the backpack to JH and "robbers" who just happened to toss JH’s cell phone at the place of the murder so that it would be found and whatever photos were on it would be revealed.

It appears to me that the perp wanted the abduction/murder/evidence discarding to look sloppy and stupid because the perp probably was hoping it would reflect on the “robbers” not on the perp.

 

[Desdemona]

I'm not claiming the guy was gifted. But it's also true that he was not a moron, having maintained a 3.75 to 3.35 range all through high school. This is just one of many reasons I am questioning this case...it's another thing that doesn't add up for me.

And Desdemona, that just my opinion.

BBM

Well, since you are calling me out by name while replying to someone else's post, I'll go ahead and weigh in here.

I'm interpreting your opinion as (my words):

Holt managed to maintain a B average in high school, therefore he is not a moron, therefore this is a reason to question LE's case against him for abducting, torturing, terrorizing, sexually assaulting, murdering, and abusing after death Whitney Heichel and attempting to cover up his crimes.​

Is that close?

BTW, ICBW, but I believe many U.S. high schools use a 4.5 GPA system, as opposed to a 4.0 system used by most colleges... Do you know whether he managed this non-moronic B average in Honors classes? Advanced Placement? College Prep? Remedial? And what were his SAT scores? His IQ score?

Sorry, but I'm not getting why the issue of Holt's high school grades or whether he is a certifiable "moron" have anything to do with the case against him for the abduction and murder of Whitney Heichel.

LE has a detailed confession and partial timeline directly from the suspect's own mouth, plus tons of physical evidence that corroborate that confession, video evidence, DNA evidence, weapons, evidence from the body of the victim, evidence from the crime scenes, witness evidence, evidence from suspect's past behavior and history. And probably more that has not been made public at this point.

Are you suggesting that the evidence we've seen so far indicates that only a total moron could have killed Whitney, therefore LE will have to prove Holt is a moron with poor high school grades in order to prove the case?

Or that LE has falsified the case against Holt, who could not have killed Whitney because he had decent grades in high school?

Or that LE are simply morons themselves who have gotten the wrong guy?

Help me out here. Like your comments about questioning LE's case because you don't think Holt was a moron, I've found many of your statements puzzling and thought-provoking, possibly intentionally abstruse (JMO). Well okay. My thoughts are puzzled and provoked. So what are you getting at?

Would you care to elucidate?

 

[Boodles]

A few questions that have remained unanswered and still stick out in my mind after reviewing the arrest affidavit:

1.) JH stated he had two identical Smith & Wesson 9mm and a Keltec 9mm. He said he sold all of them to his dad except one of the Smith & Wessons (we know this is not true since LE observed him ditching 2 of them and both were as described). We also learned that he purchased one of these Smith & Wessons from Keith's Sporting Goods in Gresham on June 26th which is only about 4 months prior. So why did he take Two guns with him for this murder and did he use both of them or were all of the 4 shell casings found inside the vehicle from the same gun? And where is the 3rd gun he spoke of? I believe the number of guns he had (especially knowing his wife did not like guns as stated in the document) and prior unknown whereabouts (August 2011) and his getting caught peeping by their next door neighbor's wife further implicate that this could potentially not be his first attempt.

2.) Does the white utility vehicle have anything to do with JH leaving the WalMart parking lot after dumping the Explorer? I believe this is completely a coincidence of timing and no evidence has pointed to a 2nd person being involved in this crime as of yet so we have to assume he acted alone unless something better than "A white utility vehicle was seen on video entering and crossing the parking lot and leaving about 20 minutes later".

3.) August 2011, Jonathan Holt disappeared for 12+ hours with the stolen rental car. He told family, friends and LE that he just needed to "Clear his head" and his statement during that time missing over 1 year ago was almost identical to what he told Amanda & Evan Judd (friends from their church) when they found him walking on SW 257th Ave & Stark Street (roughly right at the Regal Stark Street Stadium 10 Movie Theater). He told them that he had been robbed that morning so he spent the day "walking around trying to clear his head". Very suspicious since that's nearly the same thing he said in August last year when he went missing.

Also, this appears to be roughly 2.8 miles from the Walmart. This further leads me to believe he walked away from Walmart rather than being picked up by an accomplice. Here's a map from Walmart to where the Judd's found him:

http://goo.gl/maps/g8507

4.) Bottom of page 6 and top of page 7 out of 44 on the affidavit: "While the search warrant was being executed Jonathan Holt continued to be interviewed by Sergeant Harrington and Detective Seymour, Jonathan Holt admitted that his iPad, Asus gaming laptop and several external (computer) drives and flash drives were in his backpack and that he has a lot of *advertiser censored* that he had been collecting on his laptop and external drives and there would be some child *advertiser censored* on them. Jonathan Holt told them it was all the stuff that he had downloaded. The interview of Jonathan Holt continued and he disclosed that he had entered Whitney and Clinton Heiche's apartment and stole an iPhone 3G from a dresser drawer. Jonathan Holt told them that he took the stolen cell phone and had a new SIM card put in it and then used it as his own."

Why is he just gushing information to LE and admitting all of these crimes outright when LE probably had no idea of these other issues outside of the murder? It's very odd that he is admitting to additional felonies that do not seem to relate directly to the murder? You really think they accused him of breaking and entering the Heichel's apartment to steal a phone and also of downloading illegal material during the interview of a murder investigation? It just doesn't make sense why he's volunteering these additional details, was he overwhelmed with guilt during the interview?

_________________________________________________

On another note, based on all of these details in the affidavit, it's clearly obvious that the entire story to provide an alibi of his whereabouts from the morning through 6:50pm on the day of WH's murder was completely made up with details changed constantly (which is what led LE to believe he was a suspect).

As far as how smart or dumb JH is, I'm not sure you could quantify his intelligence from a GPA but I do know you couldn't be any more careless about the "cleanup" he attempted. He left the shell casings in the SUV along with a ton of other evidence including copious amounts of blood spots and pooling and brain spatter along with skull fragments and clumps of hair. He left the front license plate at a place near the body which ultimately led to them finding it. He could have burned the empty boxes of ammo he left in a dumpster, burned the cloth and garments stained with blood he threw in the Walmart dumpster, gotten rid of the guns way before the time he scheduled to go to the police station for another interview, NOT brought his laptop and external drives with illegal material on it with him to the station, and this list goes on...He just seems all around extremely careless when scattering the evidence all over the place.

It's almost like he wanted her body to be found but he didn't expect to get tied to the murder? I simply can't understand how anyone could be this obvious and careless if they were going to take the time to attempt a cover up or cleanup at all.

Yep. He cleans the seats using Febreze, but leaves shell casings in the front. Go figure! Something's very hinky about this crime explanation.

 

[Desdemona]

I think you've got it.

Interesting they mentioned that white utility vehicle in the affidavit. Good catch, I hadn't seen that. It could be how he left, but it conflicts somewhat with the other quote I just posted from another article about him getting a ride from another couple. I hope they find or have found the utility vehicle to at least figure out if it's linked or not.

Just wanted to point out that the wording in the affidavit could be specific and intentional. A "utility vehicle" is not necessarily a "sport utility vehicle," i.e. SUV or pickup truck.

A "utility vehicle" is often a term used for a golf cart and/or modified golf cart, such as the kind used by security employees at a business. We see them patrolling at the local super-grocery store parking lot, and in our local Wal-Mart parking lot.

Examples of "Utility Vehicle," i.e. golf cart, used for security:

http://www.eastern-golfcarts.com/Pages/SecurityVehicles.aspx

Wiki definition of "utility vehicle"
Utility vehicle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[nikb]

Just wanted to point out that the wording in the affidavit could be specific and intentional. A "utility vehicle" is not necessarily a "sport utility vehicle," i.e. SUV or pickup truck.

A "utility vehicle" is often a term used for a golf cart and/or modified golf cart, such as the kind used by security employees at a business. We see them patrolling at the local super-grocery store parking lot, and in our local Wal-Mart parking lot.

Examples of "Utility Vehicle," i.e. golf cart, used for security:

http://www.eastern-golfcarts.com/Pages/SecurityVehicles.aspx

Wiki definition of "utility vehicle"
Utility vehicle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Huh, interesting, thank you for the link. I definitely wasn't picturing an SUV type vehicle - funny how the word "sport" makes such a difference! - but hadn't thought about the golf-cart type of vehicle. I was picturing more of a heavy-duty truck, large toolboxes in back kind of thing. What you said makes complete sense though. Now I'm really curious which type of vehicle it was.

 

[Tennlyn]

Huh, interesting, thank you for the link. I definitely wasn't picturing an SUV type vehicle - funny how the word "sport" makes such a difference! - but hadn't thought about the golf-cart type of vehicle. I was picturing more of a heavy-duty truck, large toolboxes in back kind of thing. What you said makes complete sense though. Now I'm really curious which type of vehicle it was.

I was also picturing the utility trucks that the local electric/gas folks drive. My DH drives a work van with ladders on top. He frequently stops at Walmart to use the restroom and get a snack between his customer stops, and he parks way out in the lot because the van is oversized.

Is it possible that JH parked near the truck thinking it would provide additional cover from any security cameras as he got out of the SUV and walked off?

 

[Elainera]

Oh oops! Sorry, I was a little behind. I swore there was a rape charge initially but maybe not. I thought the sodomy charge was there from the beginning, so I'm confused seeing that article about it being a new charge. Hmmm.

They were as far as I can remember.

snipped for space

4.) Bottom of page 6 and top of page 7 out of 44 on the affidavit: "While the search warrant was being executed Jonathan Holt continued to be interviewed by Sergeant Harrington and Detective Seymour, Jonathan Holt admitted that his iPad, Asus gaming laptop and several external (computer) drives and flash drives were in his backpack and that he has a lot of *advertiser censored* that he had been collecting on his laptop and external drives and there would be some child *advertiser censored* on them. Jonathan Holt told them it was all the stuff that he had downloaded. The interview of Jonathan Holt continued and he disclosed that he had entered Whitney and Clinton Heiche's apartment and stole an iPhone 3G from a dresser drawer. Jonathan Holt told them that he took the stolen cell phone and had a new SIM card put in it and then used it as his own."

Why is he just gushing information to LE and admitting all of these crimes outright when LE probably had no idea of these other issues outside of the murder? It's very odd that he is admitting to additional felonies that do not seem to relate directly to the murder? You really think they accused him of breaking and entering the Heichel's apartment to steal a phone and also of downloading illegal material during the interview of a murder investigation? It just doesn't make sense why he's volunteering these additional details, was he overwhelmed with guilt during the interview?


It's almost like he wanted her body to be found but he didn't expect to get tied to the murder? I simply can't understand how anyone could be this obvious and careless if they were going to take the time to attempt a cover up or cleanup at all.

I'm thinking, maybe the messy clean up job was not intended to hide the crime from LE or hide evidence linking him to the crime, but an attempt to "erase" the crime from reality, out of regret, out of sheer panic and horror over what he'd done, to make it all go away. There is a possibility, I think, that he didn't intend to kill but his pent up emotions, his frustration and rage got the better of him, and once he calmed down a little he was horrified by what just happened. This would explain the tears and the deeply troubled face at his arraignment, the suicide watch, and yes, he might just tell everyting now to get it off his chest, believing he should be punished.

I've said it before, and I still think so: the guy snapped. He had accumulated too much anger, rage and frustration within him, and it all exploded that morning. I think that he deeply believes that he's utterly worthless, before the crime and now even more so. I think he's in inner hell right now, and has been for some time. He's not the cocky, arrogant criminal without remorse. He's a complete loser and he knows it.

Moo and none of this is an excuse of course for what he's done. Just possibly an explanation.

 

[Desdemona]

We have different approaches, I guess, as well as different usages for the word moron. You've already tried and convicted the guy before the trial, where a lot of evidence and unexpected lines of questioning could come out. Not sure if you saw my earlier post, but even if a guy confesses to a crime, it doesn't mean he by necessity DID do it. Even if a guy confesses to doing it, the court has to prove/agree he did it by a careful examination of the evidence at trial.

Just an aside: I am more apt to lean towards believing a confession from someone who comes across as a hardened case; I'm much less apt to take without question a confession from someone who is clearly emotionally broken and confused.

IMO a hardened case is considerably less likely to confess the truth to police than an emotional and confused perp. JMO

And so far, the evidence we've seen appears to corroborate the details of Holt's confession. Looks pretty solid to me so far. JMO

 

[sissylala]

I think a couple of people might be giving JH too much credit.

I don't think JH counted on WH being found so quickly. From some of the news reports, it sounded like she was found in a remote area and if they hadn't had so many people out looking for her, they might have not found her for a while, if at all.

Other than having the gun, he didn't seem that prepared. He was lucky that those wedding linens happened to be in the car.

I also doubt he brought along the febreeze, I think if he had the choice he would have brought a more effective cleaner. I also have febreeze, as well as an emergency kit in my car at all times. Now that I think about it, my emergency kit contains several items that might help someone cover up my murder :-( blankets, mini-shovel, matches, hygiene items, change of clothes, etc... but I digress.

It seems like he just did a rush job at everything. Cleaned the car just enough so a passerby might not be immediately suspicious. Disposing of evidence in public places. The guy lived in an apartment, so I think it would be hard for him to burn it. We have a fireplace but I don't think that's the best place to burn evidence. It seems like he was just trying to get it out of his possession.

 

[nursebeeme]

folks agree to disagree and move on. Attack the post and not the postER. Let's get back to business here.

:nurse:

 

[Quester]

What had JH planned to do with his backpack full of electronics and a gun when he was scheduled for work at 6am that fateful morning? Did he need all those electronics for work? Did he regularly carry a gun? Did he regularly call Starbucks at 6:08 in the morning when he should have already been at work, and about 45 minutes before running into WH to ask for a ride? Why didn’t he call WH’s home or cell phone? Oh right – because he didn’t immediately confess to seeing WH that morning - the “robbers” got him before 6am and he was MIA for the rest of the day.

I say thoroughly planned. JMVHO.

 

[iamnotagolem]

His sloppy clean up of the vehicle makes me think he's just a guy. Wipe off the seats and call it good. Not to pick on guys, but most of them aren't the most meticulous cleaners. Either he sucks at cleaning and thought he did a good job. OR he just wanted the bulk of the blood off the seats so it wouldn't be so obvious to someone walking by the vehicle.

 

[Indy Anna]

His sloppy clean up of the vehicle makes me think he's just a guy. Wipe off the seats and call it good. Not to pick on guys, but most of them aren't the most meticulous cleaners. Either he sucks at cleaning and thought he did a good job. OR he just wanted the bulk of the blood off the seats so it wouldn't be so obvious to someone walking by the vehicle.

Probably too busy downloading and viewing *advertiser censored*, too, to watch shows like CSI or read on WS. So, maybe he didn't realize how easy it is for LE to collect DNA evidence, surveillance footage, etc. What seems so obvious to us, LE and many career criminals may not have been so obvious to JH. Once he realized so much evidence was being collected and LE was beginning to narrow in on him, I think that's when he really panicked. He thought he was being cautious in his cover-up attempt only because he wasn't thinking from LE's point of view. IMO

 

[Xavier]

My first post, so please be gentle.

Anyone else wondering if JH might be bipolar?

Yes I thought the exact bi polar disorder Holt might have...or even the Personality Disorder....

Since our brother's completely schizo-affective, that is hearing things, telling peple he's Attorney General, or a billionaire ( yeah, that's true).....Bi Polar, the experts told our family has more subtle manic/depressive stages, heightened exuberance, there's a more normalcy about bi polar sufferers than schizo's....I think holt's bi polar, which you wonder if this is true, his attorney by knowing this, claim Not Guilty by Reason Of Insanity...

 

[Xavier]

Totally absolutely OT but my team just won the World Series!!! Woot Woot!!!

Well Congrats to the San Fran Giants 2 World Series titles in 3 years, not shabby at all....I'm from Cincinnati, our REDS will be back....

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

I just have to weigh-in on why JH chose WH to victimize. IMO, he saw WH as weak and he knew he could manipulate her. And she was close by and available. My experience as a woman is that a lot of men see a woman that smiles & is polite as weak - and, IMO, the lower the social staus of the man, the more he sees it this way.

An example of a woman that doesn't "feed the beast" (the press in this case) is Victoria Beckham. She doesn't deign to smile or show any personality. She chooses to stay stum.

Many women in WH's situation would drive into a pole rather than be taken hostage.

I know I would. But...I got the impression since LE lifted prints off the steering wheel that they think Whitney was no longer driving (also since the right passenger window was shattered; sounds like she was shot in the right front passenger seat).