GUILTY OR - Whitney Heichel, 21, Gresham, 16 Oct 2012 #5

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http://www.katu.com/news/local/Sear...-first-clue-found-by-searchers-175893161.html

"Bob Weaver coordinated the search. He was a Portland firefighter for nearly 30 years and a para-rescueman in the Air Force Reserve."

This man is why they were able to get organized so quickly.

Thank you for the clarification. I misread the document, and corrected my statement above, to reflect the local account of events.
It now reads "The document went on to mention that the uncle was in the search party that went up to Larch Mountain." You are correct, Bob Weaver coordinated the search. The document states that the uncle was an Elder and part of the JW Larch Mountain search team.
 
Do NOT bring the blog posts here, please. Stick to MSM.

Salem
 
I agree that there is not a clear-cut categorizing in this case. For me, profiling a 'type' of killer and then trying to match it with someone who’s been arrested doesn’t work. If you have a suspect, you have one due to the evidence; profiling is just a tool initially used in considering possible suspects. Profiling helps LE to try to envision who might be a likely suspect, and if the crime could be related to other unsolved crimes. And not all characteristics are always present in the person finally arrested for a particular crime. A profile is just that—a composite collection of general traits, that statistically correlate, but not a description of one specific person.

In considering this crime, now that there is a suspect, it helps to keep focus on the evidence at hand, IMO. Based on the evidence—not the ‘maybes’ from unsubstantiated people leaving comments in news articles, or theoretical profiles—here is some alternative characteristic trait listing. I’ve left off traits in this list concerning anything Holt confessed to concerning the crime, as one of his seeming indisputable traits is that he is prone to changing his story—so what he says is not a reliable source of ‘evidence’ to back up this list, IMO. I’ve put the back up evidence for each trait in parentheses.

I’ve put off writing this, as I’m generally not fond of dissecting other’s traits online, so I write this with the caveat that this is simply my own opinion, not put forth as factual about JH’s nature and being. I’ve never met him, and I’m sure there are more things I don’t know about him than things I might think I do. These impressions have been gleaned simply based on what the evidence in this case so far suggests to me:

JH – seeming character traits based on testimony in pdf and news account interviews:

• Quiet, and not known to have been a trouble maker—in fact, the last person several would have thought would have been involved in this (news interviews with neighbors and childhood friends)

• Anxious/tentative, about marriage, pleasing his wife, job security and pleasing his boss, personal financial situation, religious faith, social interactions with others (news accounts, his testimony as corroborated by Amanda’s and others’)

• Passive by nature, resistant to violence, possibly to the point of being considered weak or a ‘pushover’– (bullied in school)

• People-pleaser to those he cared about (converted to JW faith in order to marry longtime sweetheart Amanda in 2010)

• Willing to lie as a result of all of the above, but not very good at it (changing stories to LE during interviews); not a skilled or smooth liar, so likely not a habitual one. Preferring to be avoidant of people and conflict altogether, keeping thoughts and fears to himself (Amanda’s testimony).

• Generally a loner (likely as a result of the above), though he had some friends; close to his family, particularly his younger brother who he frequently hung out with (news interviews with neighbors and school friends)

• Reasonably intelligent & industrious (2006 high school GPA 3.35; trained for and received 2010 Certified Emergency Medical Technician; has held several low-to-moderate paying jobs since then, with trouble keeping jobs since his marriage in 2010; has made the effort to drive 45 min. each way in his current low-paying job and was anxious about being late)

• Frequent loss of job since conversion and marriage in 2010; frequent changing of low-cost living quarters in two years of marriage (her folks’ house in 2010 after marriage, another apt in Gresham August 2011 to 2012, Heatherwood Apts., August 2012—per news accounts and pdf)

• Escalating marital tensions and increasing personal insecurity (testimony by wife, record of gun purchase in June 2012, two months prior to move to Heatherwood Apts.)

• Depressive, low self-esteem personality type (wife’s corroborating testimony he felt like a failure; his wearing a suicide jacket, weeping visible tears, looking down, mumbling one-word answers in court appearance video)


Traits of the crime on October 16:


• WH killed by 4 gunshots while in the car in what is known as the double-tap method of killing favored by hired hit-men. Double tap killing originated as a military maneuver of one shot to the head and one shot to the heart, which made ‘double’ certain the enemy would be left dead. (Early news accounts related she was shot twice in the face/head, and twice in chest/torso. Accounts have been pulled and LE and ME keeping mum now on the details.)

• First shot quite likely through her front passenger closed window--possibly with her facing the window while keeping the door locked against entry--this break of the window would gain access for the other 3 shots. (PDF: account of biological evidence on front windshield, car seat and console, earring back on back seat floor, pile of glass shards on floor between passenger front seat and window; single bullet casing found ‘on top of the pile,’ which would not have rolled up there with car movement. Other three bullet casings also found on the floor of the car.)

• Unknown form of DNA found on steering wheel of car implicating JH.

• WH likely killed prior to Shell station video showing front passenger window ‘gone’ (pdf: shattered glass on floor by door with bullet casing implies this).

• Cursory clean up of car was not to prevent LE from finding blood (2’x3’ pool left on back seat floor); clean up was only a cursory, “casual-glance” clean up, of the seats and front windshield area; (gas attendants did not mention seeing blood through the open passenger window, though one attendant reported to police he thought he saw someone who looked like Whitney sitting there).

• License plate purposefully left on the mountain during the trip up to leave her body there. (No loose screws also found, no broken plastic mounting also found to indicate it broke off, no loose plate dangling in the Shell video to suggest it fell off, no dirty or damaged front end of car to suggest it was pulled off in the brush.)

• Killer was aware that front plate was missing after coming back down the mountain and leaving car at Walmart (took pains to park the car by backing into the space).

Traits of WH’s Killer:

*As we don’t know the particular sexual evidence left at the scene, I’m leaving that area out, for now, since the only specific reference in the pdf is Holt’s own unreliable testimony. To complicate matters, a sociopathic, professional killer also has the inclination and the skills to purposefully plant certain types of evidence, so I’m trying to describe “the Killer” simply using the evidence that is well-documented at this point.

• Whitney’s survival and testimony was ‘not an option’ to her perp (shot 4x in vital areas of body)

• Absolute cold-blooded and callous disregard for human life (coolness and steady action under pressure; a hit man style of kill—able to shoot a terrified, beautiful woman in the face, head and chest 4x and then throw her body onto the back floor; hasty clean up of blood/biologic evidence before driving the death scene and body around her home turf over a period of time for gas, disposal of body on mountain and car in parking lot….all within a tight timeframe)

• Physically aggressive, with no fear of violence (overly aggressive kill with 4 shots/bullet casings; two guns implicated and retrieved for evidence)

• Methodical, and capable of inordinate planning for what he wants (abduction, assault/murder; license plate removal/positional parking of car; some evidence clean up/some evidence drops all around the area. *Note: A professional, experienced killer would be careful to only leave evidence that wouldn’t implicate himself.)

• Manipulates a crime scene for desired effect on people’s reactions or lack of reactions (cursory blood clean up, dropping license plate on mountain)

• Sociopathic narcissist (manner of kill, manipulates situations and people for personal gain)

*Note:
A sociopathic narcissist would NEVER be suicidal. His world revolves around himself, and all of his actions are designed to further Self. The rest of the world, however, is completely dispensable, to be used for the purposes of Self. (Two psychological professionals in my family.)

Thank you for organizing such a wonderful detailed list and for your insight! It is great to see all of this useful information in one place!
 
For me, profiling a 'type' of killer and then trying to match it with someone who’s been arrested doesn’t work.)


I am not aware of anyone trying to profile JH. Speaking for myself, I am attempting to "understand the why (triggers, motivations etc) behind the what ( his murdering Whitney). Most people would like to feel that they do not fall neatly into well defined categories but the facts are - we do. People are pretty easy to categorize in fact.


In considering this crime, now that there is a suspect, it helps to keep focus on the evidence at hand, IMO. Based on the evidence—not the ‘maybes’ from unsubstantiated people leaving comments in news articles, or theoretical profiles


JH – seeming character traits based on testimony in pdf and news account interviews:

• Quiet, and not known to have been a trouble maker—in fact, the last person several would have thought would have been involved in this (news interviews with neighbors and childhood friends)

Agreed. Just need to note that the same is said about nearly every killer after he murders for the first time. Thus the popular joke about where is the safest place to live? Next door to a serial killer because they always interview the neighbors saying what a quiet and nice guy he was....

• Anxious/tentative, about marriage, pleasing his wife, job security and pleasing his boss, personal financial situation, religious faith, social interactions with others (news accounts, his testimony as corroborated by Amanda’s and others’)

Most people who are having severe financial problems are anxious. That is IMO more situational than character. As far as "tentative" I think stealing that phone from Clint's dresser is anything but "tentative" as was kidnapping, murder, throwing a gun in the police parking lot and so on.



• Passive by nature, resistant to violence, possibly to the point of being considered weak or a ‘pushover’– (bullied in school)

It may be hasty to label him as "passive by nature" as their is no proof of that so far. As for bullied in school, there is a lot of anecdotal evidence that experiencing that tends to create a bully in and of itself

• People-pleaser to those he cared about (converted to JW faith in order to marry longtime sweetheart Amanda in 2010)

• Willing to lie as a result of all of the above, but not very good at it (changing stories to LE during interviews); not a skilled or smooth liar, so likely not a habitual one. Preferring to be avoidant of people and conflict altogether, keeping thoughts and fears to himself (Amanda’s testimony).

• Generally a loner (likely as a result of the above), though he had some friends; close to his family, particularly his younger brother who he frequently hung out with (news interviews with neighbors and school friends)

• Reasonably intelligent & industrious (2006 high school GPA 3.35; trained for and received 2010 Certified Emergency Medical Technician; has held several low-to-moderate paying jobs since then, with trouble keeping jobs since his marriage in 2010; has made the effort to drive 45 min. each way in his current low-paying job and was anxious about being late)

This brings up a good point. I have wondered why he wouldnt want to work in the field he trained in? If he had diligently tried to find work and use his training, wouldnt that have been mentioned? By Amanda perhaps?

• Frequent loss of job since conversion and marriage in 2010; frequent changing of low-cost living quarters in two years of marriage (her folks’ house in 2010 after marriage, another apt in Gresham August 2011 to 2012, Heatherwood Apts., August 2012—per news accounts and pdf)

• Escalating marital tensions and increasing personal insecurity (testimony by wife, record of gun purchase in June 2012, two months prior to move to Heatherwood Apts.)

• Depressive, low self-esteem personality type (wife’s corroborating testimony he felt like a failure; his wearing a suicide jacket, weeping visible tears, looking down, mumbling one-word answers in court appearance video)


Traits of the crime on October 16:


• WH killed by 4 gunshots while in the car in what is known as the double-tap method of killing favored by hired hit-men. Double tap killing originated as a military maneuver of one shot to the head and one shot to the heart, which made ‘double’ certain the enemy would be left dead. (Early news accounts related she was shot twice in the face/head, and twice in chest/torso. Accounts have been pulled and LE and ME keeping mum now on the details.)

The concept of "double tap"' has worked its way into mainstream pop culture. Shooting zombies with a double tap is one of the rules in the movie Zombieland. In the game Payday: The Heist is the phrase "Double tap! Triple tap! Just keep tapping!" after the players have taken many hits and still stand. I wanted to add this as it lends support to anyone who watches movies or plays video games of this nature being familiar with this term.


• First shot quite likely through her front passenger closed window--possibly with her facing the window while keeping the door locked against entry--this break of the window would gain access for the other 3 shots. (PDF: account of biological evidence on front windshield, car seat and console, earring back on back seat floor, pile of glass shards on floor between passenger front seat and window; single bullet casing found ‘on top of the pile,’ which would not have rolled up there with car movement. Other three bullet casings also found on the floor of the car.)

• Unknown form of DNA found on steering wheel of car implicating JH.

• WH likely killed prior to Shell station video showing front passenger window ‘gone’ (pdf: shattered glass on floor by door with bullet casing implies this).

• Cursory clean up of car was not to prevent LE from finding blood (2’x3’ pool left on back seat floor); clean up was only a cursory, “casual-glance” clean up, of the seats and front windshield area; (gas attendants did not mention seeing blood through the open passenger window, though one attendant reported to police he thought he saw someone who looked like Whitney sitting there).

• License plate purposefully left on the mountain during the trip up to leave her body there. (No loose screws also found, no broken plastic mounting also found to indicate it broke off, no loose plate dangling in the Shell video to suggest it fell off, no dirty or damaged front end of car to suggest it was pulled off in the brush.)

• Killer was aware that front plate was missing after coming back down the mountain and leaving car at Walmart (took pains to park the car by backing into the space).

Traits of WH’s Killer:

*As we don’t know the particular sexual evidence left at the scene, I’m leaving that area out, for now, since the only specific reference in the pdf is Holt’s own unreliable testimony. To complicate matters, a sociopathic, professional killer also has the inclination and the skills to purposefully plant certain types of evidence, so I’m trying to describe “the Killer” simply using the evidence that is well-documented at this point.
• Whitney’s survival and testimony was ‘not an option’ to her perp (shot 4x in vital areas of body)

• Absolute cold-blooded and callous disregard for human life (coolness and steady action under pressure; a hit man style of kill—


Staying within your defined parameters that I underlined in your first bullet point, this needs to be amended to reflect all gamers and horror movie watchers as well as "hit men.

• Physically aggressive, with no fear of violence (overly aggressive kill with 4 shots/bullet casings; two guns implicated and retrieved for evidence)

Again going with your underlined frame above, we have no evidence of how (or how not) physically aggressive the killer was. It doesn't take a lot of physical aggression to pull a trigger. Just a mental or emotional decision to do so.


• Methodical, and capable of inordinate planning for what he wants (abduction, assault/murder; license plate removal/positional parking of car; some evidence clean up/some evidence drops all around the area. *Note: A professional, experienced killer would be careful to only leave evidence that wouldn’t implicate himself.)

I don't see anything methodical or capable in the evidence so far. Abduction, assault and murder can all occur on a whim. Take for example Alejandro Avila. He wasn't even after his victim. He was after someone else and just took her on a whim. So I cannot say there is any evidence to support "methodical and capable". In fact it seems the opposite to me.


• Manipulates a crime scene for desired effect on people’s reactions or lack of reactions (cursory blood clean up, dropping license plate on mountain)

• Sociopathic narcissist (manner of kill, manipulates situations and people for personal gain)

*Note:
A sociopathic narcissist would NEVER be suicidal. His world revolves around himself, and all of his actions are designed to further Self. The rest of the world, however, is completely dispensable, to be used for the purposes of Self. (Two psychological professionals in my family.)

We don't have any evidence that JH is suicidal really. His saying he was wouldn't count (by your above parameters that we don't take anything he says seriously) As far as LE putting that vest on him, they would have to do that for liability reasons if JH uttered or displayed ANY suicidal words or actions. Or even if they "thought" due to the violent activity he involved himself in that he "might" attempt suicide as a remorse gesture for that matter. I think (yes this is just my opinion) that a weak little wuss who is brain soaked with video games and gun lore would be able to indulge his fantasies and then cry crocodile tears ala O.J. Simpson style. That still wouldn't mean he was suicidal, right?
 
Thank you for organizing such a wonderful detailed list and for your insight! It is great to see all of this useful information in one place!

You're welcome, Sasquatch! Sometimes getting it all down helps me get a new perspective or see something I might have missed. I appreciate your taking the time to read it through, and your gracious comment. :)
 
Glow, I appreciate your long reply to my post--my server is down this morning and I'm on my phone so will answer it later today when (hopefully!) my server is up and running.
 
"a weak little wuss who is brain soaked with video games and gun lore would be able to indulge his fantasies and then cry crocodile tears ala O.J. Simpson style"

Right on sister! This is a profile description I can even understand. I always liked the line "explain it to me like I'm a six year old".
 
"a weak little wuss who is brain soaked with video games and gun lore would be able to indulge his fantasies and then cry crocodile tears ala O.J. Simpson style"

Right on sister! This is a profile description I can even understand. I always liked the line "explain it to me like I'm a six year old".

:floorlaugh: Thanks!

I got to thinking though, now that the "O.J." case has been raked back up in the news, maybe I should amend that to good ole Scott Peterson instead? The point is the same, all murderers are not cold with a deadly rattlesnake stare....they can and do display emotion.
 
:floorlaugh: Thanks!

I got to thinking though, now that the "O.J." case has been raked back up in the news, maybe I should amend that to good ole Scott Peterson instead? The point is the same, all murderers are not cold with a deadly rattlesnake stare....they can and do display emotion.

Especially when they get caught!
I'd cry big old tears too, if I had to appear on the big screen in a suicide smock and be paraded through jail in one.

Seriously though, this reminds me of a child who lies and lies to cover another lie, gets caught in the final lie and cries because they got caught.
 
I am not aware of anyone trying to profile JH. Speaking for myself, I am attempting to "understand the why (triggers, motivations etc) behind the what ( his murdering Whitney). Most people would like to feel that they do not fall neatly into well defined categories but the facts are - we do. People are pretty easy to categorize in fact.


Agreed. Just need to note that the same is said about nearly every killer after he murders for the first time. Thus the popular joke about where is the safest place to live? Next door to a serial killer because they always interview the neighbors saying what a quiet and nice guy he was....


Most people who are having severe financial problems are anxious. That is IMO more situational than character. As far as "tentative" I think stealing that phone from Clint's dresser is anything but "tentative" as was kidnapping, murder, throwing a gun in the police parking lot and so on.


It may be hasty to label him as "passive by nature" as their is no proof of that so far. As for bullied in school, there is a lot of anecdotal evidence that experiencing that tends to create a bully in and of itself



This brings up a good point. I have wondered why he wouldnt want to work in the field he trained in? If he had diligently tried to find work and use his training, wouldnt that have been mentioned? By Amanda perhaps?


The concept of "double tap"' has worked its way into mainstream pop culture. Shooting zombies with a double tap is one of the rules in the movie Zombieland. In the game Payday: The Heist is the phrase "Double tap! Triple tap! Just keep tapping!" after the players have taken many hits and still stand. I wanted to add this as it lends support to anyone who watches movies or plays video games of this nature being familiar with this term.


Staying within your defined parameters that I underlined in your first bullet point, this needs to be amended to reflect all gamers and horror movie watchers as well as "hit men.


Again going with your underlined frame above, we have no evidence of how (or how not) physically aggressive the killer was. It doesn't take a lot of physical aggression to pull a trigger. Just a mental or emotional decision to do so.


I don't see anything methodical or capable in the evidence so far. Abduction, assault and murder can all occur on a whim. Take for example Alejandro Avila. He wasn't even after his victim. He was after someone else and just took her on a whim. So I cannot say there is any evidence to support "methodical and capable". In fact it seems the opposite to me.


We don't have any evidence that JH is suicidal really. His saying he was wouldn't count (by your above parameters that we don't take anything he says seriously)As far as LE putting that vest on him, they would have to do that for liability reasons if JH uttered or displayed ANY suicidal words or actions. Or even if they "thought" due to the violent activity he involved himself in that he "might" attempt suicide as a remorse gesture for that matter. I think (yes this is just my opinion) that a weak little wuss who is brain soaked with video games and gun lore would be able to indulge his fantasies and then cry crocodile tears ala O.J. Simpson style. That still wouldn't mean he was suicidal, right?
:blowkiss:
Glow. You are amazing.

And I believe the 'anti-suicide smock' is indeed normal preventive protocol.

Here is news item from 2011 which specifies that placing a prisoner on suicide watch in Clackamas County is standard procedure, based on the type of charges against the prisoner. This case was also a gun murder, and the suspect also confessed.

http://www.oregonlive.com/clackamascounty/index.ssf/2011/06/woman_charged_in_death_of_glad.html

Woman charged in death of Gladstone beautician placed on suicide watch
Published: Tuesday, June 07, 2011, 4:08 PM
Updated: Wednesday, June 08, 2011, 3:26 PM
Molly Young, The Oregonian By Molly Young, The Oregonian

The woman accused of killing a Gladstone beautician has been placed under suicide watch as a precaution in Clackamas County Jail, officials said Tuesday.

Detectives arrested 53-year-old Susan Ellen Campbell on Friday, six days after authorities discovered the body of Debbie Lee Higbee Benton in her Gladstone beauty shop.

Lt. Lee Eby said guards are closely watching Campbell, which he described as normal protocol based on the charges against her.

Court documents show Campbell, also of Gladstone, confessed "to participating in intentionally causing the death of the victim" and told police where to find the weapon, which was the "same caliber as the one used in the murder of the victim," the statement said.

:cool: Back to lurkerdom.
 
:blowkiss:
I believe the 'anti-suicide smock' is indeed normal preventive protocol.

Here is news item from 2011 which specifies that placing a prisoner on suicide watch in Clackamas County is standard procedure, based on the type of charges against the prisoner. This case was also a gun murder, and the suspect also confessed.

http://www.oregonlive.com/clackamascounty/index.ssf/2011/06/woman_charged_in_death_of_glad.html

Woman charged in death of Gladstone beautician placed on suicide watch
Published: Tuesday, June 07, 2011, 4:08 PM
Updated: Wednesday, June 08, 2011, 3:26 PM
Molly Young, The Oregonian By Molly Young, The Oregonian

The woman accused of killing a Gladstone beautician has been placed under suicide watch as a precaution in Clackamas County Jail, officials said Tuesday.

Detectives arrested 53-year-old Susan Ellen Campbell on Friday, six days after authorities discovered the body of Debbie Lee Higbee Benton in her Gladstone beauty shop.

Lt. Lee Eby said guards are closely watching Campbell, which he described as normal protocol based on the charges against her.

Court documents show Campbell, also of Gladstone, confessed "to participating in intentionally causing the death of the victim" and told police where to find the weapon, which was the "same caliber as the one used in the murder of the victim," the statement said.

:cool: Back to lurkerdom.

I appreciate those links! And yes, I think it is becoming more of a "preventative protocol" as you said.

I'm sure it makes the job of LE easier and lessens their liability.
 
Especially when they get caught!
I'd cry big old tears too, if I had to appear on the big screen in a suicide smock and be paraded through jail in one.

Seriously though, this reminds me of a child who lies and lies to cover another lie, gets caught in the final lie and cries because they got caught.

Good point, Not tears of remorse but of self pity. :furious:
 
:floorlaugh: Thanks!

I got to thinking though, now that the "O.J." case has been raked back up in the news, maybe I should amend that to good ole Scott Peterson instead? The point is the same, all murderers are not cold with a deadly rattlesnake stare....they can and do display emotion.


GLOW--- A Side Bar Comment

Anyone interested in the current theories and verifiable evidence pointing to OJ's son Jason as the killer go read, watch Detective William Dear, PI on google.com & Youtube.com ...
Very believable theory...
 
Very interesting post Sasquatch!

I am very interested in the why aspect of this crime. I read one of the links you posted and have run out of time. I will read the other as soon as I can get back here but TIA for posting them. Loads of material to digest and think about there.

In the meantime, some of us had been making a list of traits JH posesses. I have compiled everyones contributions in to one list so that it will be in one place to refer to in conjunction with the links Sasquatch has provided.

I can already say (having just read one of the links) that it is puzzling me how JH seems to veer between one category and then the other....

ok, here is a list of what we all came up with concerning traits of JH:


High School Graduate 3.35 overall grade point average (2006)

Certified Emergency Medical Technician (EMT 2010)

Loner, Quiet, Shy

Uncommunicative with his wife--keeps things bottled up then explodes

Felt like a failure

Low paying jobs

Parents recently divorced

Working class background
Holt's wife was THEE authority figure in thei rhousehold.

habitual liar

*advertiser censored* addict

struggling with his faith(?)

He seems quite immature to me. He was so concerned about their finances, but couldn't seem to keep a job, and yet they had not only 2 laptops, but an iPad, as well.

gun fascination

thief
bullied in school

played football maybe(?)

peeping tom (?)

stalker perhaps? (when plowing through their desk and dresser drawers and stealing the phone)

kidnapper

sexual assaulter


murderer

attempted hiding of crime


my intent was to include everyone who posted on this. If anyone sees something has been left out, let me know and I will add it to the list.

Since Day 1 I've the WHY of this crime.

From the profiles the posters, PIM, Sasq, Glow and others, it seems the driving force to commit this crime was Jealousy, Envy.

Holt had self esteem problems, that seemed to have never left him from childhood, youth. Holt, now married to his high school friend, is faced living with someone who sees his flaws hourly , probably exposing them to him constructively and that might take some getting used to for him to hear these things.

IMO Holt's view of Whit and Clint's marriage, life together as easy, positive, fun, loving, moving forward with goals of family, adventures. Plus, it sounds like to me the Heichels had respect from their church, socially and had a large circle of family, friends. IMO The Heichels had the respect, admiration from those in their social circle as an attractive, successful couple, successful individuals.

Note: Success in Life for me personally does not mean necessarily Financial Success or Wealth

So Holt probably wondered why can't he have what the Heichels have?

Holt wanted to have some of the good things the Heichels had.

Unable to climb out of the never ending "Hole of Constant Sorrow" Holt's boiling point made him go ballistic and commit this crime.

Holt probably needed a "Signficant Achievement" (and I hate to use this wording) to rectify himself, prop up his self respect, self esteem, that he could "do something" in a big way, even if it meant taking someone's life.
 
Xavier, I agree with most of what you said. What is really sad and most will not understand this but knowing the group of people they all were around (trying to avoid religion topic here) all JH would have had to do was reach out and tell someone his feelings or ask for help and he would have had open arms all around him. This was something JH was taught from childhood to reach out. Instead he withdrew from everyone (including his wife) and went into his own world. I don't think any one can say for sure what caused him to do what he did, I don't think he knows. Its just sad for everyone, I think about his parents and feel very sad for them. I don't know what would be worse to be the parents of Whitney or the parents of JH?
 
I don't know what would be worse to be the parents of Whitney or the parents of JH?

Your thought provoking question has stayed with me since you posted it. In between the busyness of the day, it kept running through my mind.

On the one side my mind argued that Whitney is dead and that cant be easy in any way for her family even with strong faith.

But then you have the parents of JH and their child is beyond their ability (as parents) to "fix" him,

I finally came to the conclusion that I would prefer to be Whitney's parents.

Let me tell you why.

Whitney died as she lived. Open and loving and being loved. She created rather than destroyed. She added to rather than "subtract from" this world. True, her family is without her physical presence but they have as a compensation all she was about.

For the parents of JH, there is the horror of Whitney's death but there is the much greater horror of knowing what their son did. They cant mourn with pride as Whitney's family can. They have to instead mourn with added shame heaped on their lives.

So while Whitney's family can move on and heal, the family of JH will have to wake up each day to the knowledge of what he did.

I guess it boils down to is there something worse than death?

I believe there is. To live dishonorably, to shame your family, those things are worse to me.

I would rather (for me) lose my child physically than have them be lost to me through their own heinous behavior.

Its just beyond sad either way though isn't it? One child lost through murder and the other is lost to the judicial system.
 
Xavier, I agree with most of what you said. What is really sad and most will not understand this but knowing the group of people they all were around (trying to avoid religion topic here) all JH would have had to do was reach out and tell someone his feelings or ask for help and he would have had open arms all around him. This was something JH was taught from childhood to reach out. Instead he withdrew from everyone (including his wife) and went into his own world. I don't think any one can say for sure what caused him to do what he did, I don't think he knows. Its just sad for everyone, I think about his parents and feel very sad for them. I don't know what would be worse to be the parents of Whitney or the parents of JH?


I agree JULIE R.

I think Holt's marriage was eroding, and maybe the days before the crime, things could've escalated to a point where Holt had to act out or release his angers. And WH was who he was going to "take out" his frustrations on.
 
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