Relatives fed and on their way back home, and Internet back and running.
Hope you all had a happy Thanksgiving.
Glow, here's the response I promised once I could type on something bigger than my phone...
Originally Posted by PoirotryInMotion
For me, profiling a 'type' of killer and then trying to match it with someone who’s been arrested doesn’t work.)
I am not aware of anyone trying to profile JH. Speaking for myself, I am attempting to "understand the why (triggers, motivations etc) behind the what ( his murdering Whitney). Most people would like to feel that they do not fall neatly into well defined categories but the facts are - we do. People are pretty easy to categorize in fact.
I was aware of it; some posters had been offering comments regarding whether or not JH might fit the profile of an anger-retaliatory rapist. I don’t believe people are as easily ‘categorized’ as you do. I do believe people are inherently inclined to try to categorize others; others actively try to avoid doing that, knowing that surface knowledge, over-generalization, and faulty assumptions lead to error.
Originally Posted by PoirotryInMotion:
In considering this crime, now that there is a suspect, it helps to keep focus on the evidence at hand, IMO. Based on the evidence—not the ‘maybes’ from unsubstantiated people leaving comments in news articles, or theoretical profiles. ...
JH – seeming character traits based on testimony in pdf and news account interviews:
• Quiet, and not known to have been a trouble maker—in fact, the last person several would have thought would have been involved in this (news interviews with neighbors and childhood friends)
Agreed. Just need to note that the same is said about nearly every killer after he murders for the first time. Thus the popular joke about where is the safest place to live? Next door to a serial killer because they always interview the neighbors saying what a quiet and nice guy he was....
Yes, though it would be faulty logic, of course, to assume that since he was known as a quiet, nice guy, he must therefore be a serial killer in the making. That would be an exaggerated example of how categorizing can cause problems when combined with faulty logic.
Originally Posted by PoirotryInMotion
• Anxious/tentative, about marriage, pleasing his wife, job security and pleasing his boss, personal financial situation, religious faith, social interactions with others (news accounts, his testimony as corroborated by Amanda’s and others’
Most people who are having severe financial problems are anxious. That is IMO more situational than character. As far as "tentative" I think stealing that phone from Clint's dresser is anything but "tentative" as was kidnapping, murder, throwing a gun in the police parking lot and so on.
But if you’ll read that whole paragraph, what I’m illustrating is someone who was NOT just anxious about finances. He was anxious about his marriage, his wife’s disapproval, his social interactions, his religious faith, and his boss’s approval and job security. In psychological terms, such a person is referred to as having generalized, or ‘free-floating anxiety.’ And these observations were made by others about him—this is not based just on his own testimony.
The 'tentative' trait was based on his personality characteristics and general anxiety, not at all on the alleged actions he's been arrested for or confessed to doing (I don't believe his confession 100%).
Originally Posted by PoirotryInMotion
• Passive by nature, resistant to violence, possibly to the point of being considered weak or a ‘pushover’– (bullied in school)
It may be hasty to label him as "passive by nature" as their is no proof of that so far. As for bullied in school, there is a lot of anecdotal evidence that experiencing that tends to create a bully in and of itself
Kids who are bullied as children
are those with the more quiet and passive nature; bullies pick up on that like a magnet, and these kids become the targets. If the bullying is prolonged, and causes someone to snap later in life (and I’m not saying that is the case here), the person’s original nature still hasn’t changed—though his mental stability has, in all likelihood. Your personality and nature are pretty much formed by older childhood.
Originally Posted by PoirotryInMotion
• People-pleaser to those he cared about (converted to JW faith in order to marry longtime sweetheart Amanda in 2010)
• Willing to lie as a result of all of the above, but not very good at it (changing stories to LE during interviews); not a skilled or smooth liar, so likely not a habitual one. Preferring to be avoidant of people and conflict altogether, keeping thoughts and fears to himself (Amanda’s testimony).
• Generally a loner (likely as a result of the above), though he had some friends; close to his family, particularly his younger brother who he frequently hung out with (news interviews with neighbors and school friends)
• Reasonably intelligent & industrious (2006 high school GPA 3.35; trained for and received 2010 Certified Emergency Medical Technician; has held several low-to-moderate paying jobs since then, with trouble keeping jobs since his marriage in 2010; has made the effort to drive 45 min. each way in his current low-paying job and was anxious about being late)
This brings up a good point. I have wondered why he wouldnt want to work in the field he trained in? If he had diligently tried to find work and use his training, wouldnt that have been mentioned? By Amanda perhaps?
Good question, and something I’ve been curious about, also. I’m pretty sure if anyone would know, it’d be Amanda.
Originally Posted by PoirotryInMotion
• Frequent loss of job since conversion and marriage in 2010; frequent changing of low-cost living quarters in two years of marriage (her folks’ house in 2010 after marriage, another apt in Gresham August 2011 to 2012, Heatherwood Apts., August 2012—per news accounts and pdf)
• Escalating marital tensions and increasing personal insecurity (testimony by wife, record of gun purchase in June 2012, two months prior to move to Heatherwood Apts.)
• Depressive, low self-esteem personality type (wife’s corroborating testimony he felt like a failure; his wearing a suicide jacket, weeping visible tears, looking down, mumbling one-word answers in court appearance video)
Traits of the crime on October 16:
• WH killed by 4 gunshots while in the car in what is known as the double-tap method of killing favored by hired hit-men. Double tap killing originated as a military maneuver of one shot to the head and one shot to the heart, which made ‘double’ certain the enemy would be left dead. (Early news accounts related she was shot twice in the face/head, and twice in chest/torso. Accounts have been pulled and LE and ME keeping mum now on the details.)
The concept of "double tap"' has worked its way into mainstream pop culture. Shooting zombies with a double tap is one of the rules in the movie Zombieland. In the game Payday: The Heist is the phrase "Double tap! Triple tap! Just keep tapping!" after the players have taken many hits and still stand. I wanted to add this as it lends support to anyone who watches movies or plays video games of this nature being familiar with this term.
Though familiar with the term in pop culture, it’d be my guess the people who’d actually do this in real life (and who also deal with the bodies, crime scene clean up, and evidence arrangement) are still those who are the professionals. At least the ones who can coolly clean up the blood and biologic evidence, drive around a victim’s hometown area using her ATM card at multiple stops, drop her body and selective evidence around the area, and abandon the crime scene car at a 24-hr Walmart without getting caught on surveillance tape. The cold-blooded hit AND the actions afterward indicate ‘pro’ to me, in other words.
Originally Posted by PoirotryInMotion
• First shot quite likely through her front passenger closed window--possibly with her facing the window while keeping the door locked against entry--this break of the window would gain access for the other 3 shots. (PDF: account of biological evidence on front windshield, car seat and console, earring back on back seat floor, pile of glass shards on floor between passenger front seat and window; single bullet casing found ‘on top of the pile,’ which would not have rolled up there with car movement. Other three bullet casings also found on the floor of the car.)
• Unknown form of DNA found on steering wheel of car implicating JH.
• WH likely killed prior to Shell station video showing front passenger window ‘gone’ (pdf: shattered glass on floor by door with bullet casing implies this).
• Cursory clean up of car was not to prevent LE from finding blood (2’x3’ pool left on back seat floor); clean up was only a cursory, “casual-glance” clean up, of the seats and front windshield area; (gas attendants did not mention seeing blood through the open passenger window, though one attendant reported to police he thought he saw someone who looked like Whitney sitting there).
• License plate purposefully left on the mountain during the trip up to leave her body there. (No loose screws also found, no broken plastic mounting also found to indicate it broke off, no loose plate dangling in the Shell video to suggest it fell off, no dirty or damaged front end of car to suggest it was pulled off in the brush.)
• Killer was aware that front plate was missing after coming back down the mountain and leaving car at Walmart (took pains to park the car by backing into the space).
Traits of WH’s Killer:
*As we don’t know the particular sexual evidence left at the scene, I’m leaving that area out, for now, since the only specific reference in the pdf is Holt’s own unreliable testimony. To complicate matters, a sociopathic, professional killer also has the inclination and the skills to purposefully plant certain types of evidence, so I’m trying to describe “the Killer” simply using the evidence that is well-documented at this point.
• Whitney’s survival and testimony was ‘not an option’ to her perp (shot 4x in vital areas of body)
• Absolute cold-blooded and callous disregard for human life (coolness and steady action under pressure; a hit man style of kill— <snipped>
Staying within your defined parameters that I underlined in your first bullet point, this needs to be amended to reflect all gamers and horror movie watchers as well as "hit men.
(See the above response.)
Originally Posted by PoirotryInMotion
• Physically aggressive, with no fear of violence (overly aggressive kill with 4 shots/bullet casings; two guns implicated and retrieved for evidence)
Again going with your underlined frame above, we have no evidence of how (or how not) physically aggressive the killer was. It doesn't take a lot of physical aggression to pull a trigger. Just a mental or emotional decision to do so.
True—not tons of brute strength in this particular hit, though it’d take some human strength to dispose of a 120-lb. dead body afterward. Physical aggression starts in the mind—that is the first step toward being a ‘physically aggressive’ person, in my opinion. The physically aggressive personality has no fear or reluctance about solving his problems in a physically aggressive manner. Whether it involves punching someone out, knifing them, or shooting them—the result is still considered physical aggression (at least from the standpoint of the victim).
Originally Posted by PoirotryInMotion
• Methodical, and capable of inordinate planning for what he wants (abduction, assault/murder; license plate removal/positional parking of car; some evidence clean up/some evidence drops all around the area. *Note: A professional, experienced killer would be careful to only leave evidence that wouldn’t implicate himself.)
I don't see anything methodical or capable in the evidence so far. Abduction, assault and murder can all occur on a whim. Take for example Alejandro Avila. He wasn't even after his victim. He was after someone else and just took her on a whim. So I cannot say there is any evidence to support "methodical and capable". In fact it seems the opposite to me.
That is where we’ll have to remain in disagreement. I see a LOT of method and planning (along with some giveaway ‘mistakes’
in this particular crime. TOS (and other reasons) prevent me from going further about that in here.
Originally Posted by PoirotryInMotion
• Manipulates a crime scene for desired effect on people’s reactions or lack of reactions (cursory blood clean up, dropping license plate on mountain)
• Sociopathic narcissist (manner of kill, manipulates situations and people for personal gain)
*Note: A sociopathic narcissist would NEVER be suicidal. His world revolves around himself, and all of his actions are designed to further Self. The rest of the world, however, is completely dispensable, to be used for the purposes of Self. (Two psychological professionals in my family.)
We don't have any evidence that JH is suicidal really. His saying he was wouldn't count (by your above parameters that we don't take anything he says seriously) As far as LE putting that vest on him, they would have to do that for liability reasons if JH uttered or displayed ANY suicidal words or actions. Or even if they "thought" due to the violent activity he involved himself in that he "might" attempt suicide as a remorse gesture for that matter. I think (yes this is just my opinion) that a weak little wuss who is brain soaked with video games and gun lore would be able to indulge his fantasies and then cry crocodile tears ala O.J. Simpson style. That still wouldn't mean he was suicidal, right?
The way I’m presently seeing it, there are two possible scenarios:
1)He IS suicidal, which would explain the suicide jacket and 24-hr round the clock watch. Oregon law requires that all inmates undergo intelligence and personality assessment (including mental health) exams during intake. The psych exams are conducted by mental health professionals. In other words, JH isn’t wearing a suicide jacket because he’s crying and whining and ‘trying to act suicidal.’ I have some familiarity with these tests; they are more sophisticated than that, and will catch ‘fakes.’
Here’s an excerpt from the Suicide Prevention portion of the OARs (Oregon Administrative Rules) that lists some things the mental health people also look for in inmates, even prior to the completion of formal testing:
Suicide Warning Signs: The following list provides some of the indicators of suicide potential:
(a) Talk of suicide, threats of suicide;
(b) Extreme sadness or crying;
(c) Apathy, loss of interest in all or almost all people and activities;
(d) Loss of appetite or weight;
(e) Walking or completing tasks at an unusually slow speed;
(f) Difficulty concentrating or thinking;
(g) Sleep disturbances;
(h) Emotional flatness; seems numb, non-reactive;
(i) Difficulty carrying out routine tasks; e.g., eating, dressing, etc.;
(j) Tension and agitation; inability to relax or sit still, pacing, hand wringing;
(k) Withdrawal, silent, uncommunicative;
(l) Pessimistic attitude about the future;
(m) Emotional outbursts, sudden expression of anger for no apparent reason; or
(n) Feeling of hopelessness and helplessness.
(7) Suicide Watch: In high risk situations, continuous and unobstructed one-to-one view of the inmate is required at all times with recorded observation within each 15-minute interval.
http://arcweb.sos.state.or.us/pages/rules/oars_200/oar_291/291_076.html
OR,
2)He is being presented as suicidal by LE and is in “24-hour watch” custody for another, undisclosed reason.
Personally, I don’t have a problem believing the first, given his tentative, depressive personality traits (several of those traits listed above have been observed by others in LE interviews), his recent life events and probable “life stress” score, and his mental instability a year ago. I haven’t written off the second one, though, and consider it also possible. Oregon state law requires an inmate who is deemed suicidal for more than 48 consecutive hrs. to be transferred to a mental facility for inmates—and to my knowledge, that hasn’t yet happened (same link, half way down, see 5d):
“(d) If the mental health provider decides to maintain an inmate on suicide watch past 48 hours, the officer-in-charge will be notified and arrangements will be made for the transportation of the inmate to the nearest Mental Health Infirmary. It is the responsibility of the mental health provider to communicate to the Mental Health Infirmary receiving staff of the impending admission.”
