CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #12

[SheWhoMustNotBeNamed]

Please continue here.

Bob Harrod has been missing since July 27, 2009.
He was last seen at his residence by his son in law sometime after 10:00 am the morning of July 27.

Bobs disappearance is being investigated as a homicide and a 50,000 dollar reward is being offered for information about his disappearance.

Authorities are asking anyone with information about Harrod's disappearance to contact detective Dave Radomski at 714-993-8176, or contact the homicide hotline at 714-993-8166.


Bobs Charley Project page:
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/...od_robert.html

Bobs NamUs page:
https://www.findthemissing.org/cases/2706/0/


Links to previous threads:

#1

#2

#3

#4

#5

#6

#7

#8

#9

#10

#11


Timeline and Media links only

Forensic Astrology - ROBERT HARROD LastSeen 7/27/09 Placentia, CA - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

Links to individual posts containing court documents:

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #5

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #5

court document link: CA CA - Bob Harrod-Documents No discussion - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

Bob Harrod's SAR thread

 

[imamaze]

Please continue here...

 

[GrainneDhu]

Something unusual and it probably means nothing: looking closely at Bob's picture in post #1 in this thread, it looks to me like his left eye and the left corner of his mouth droop a bit. Which could mean that he experienced Bell's palsy and was one of those people who didn't recover full movement.

Bell's palsy is an inflammation of the nerve that serves the face. No one really knows what causes it but it is most likely to be auto-immune in origin. It is characterised by an inability to fully move the eyebrow, eyelid and corner of the mouth on that side of the face. In severe cases, the eyelid has to be taped shut during sleep to protect the eye. Also any superficial lines in the forehead tend to smooth out on that side.

Most people who are affected by Bell's palsy recover in 3-6 months. Most people recover fully but some people have lingering nerve damage; the most common symptom of lingering nerve damage is a crooked smile. Just like Bob's smile.

Now here's where I think there may be a possible connection to Bob's disappearance: uninformed lay people often mistake the symptoms of Bell's palsy as evidence of a stroke. There is a fairly easy way to differentiate, which I am not going to reveal here. And then there's the horrid way to differentiate which involves electrodes in the face and electrical stimulation of the muscles of the face. The second way is obviously invasive and I know from personal experience that it is far from pleasant to undergo; many doctors would rather use the first method which is fairly accurate and not unpleasant at all.

We know from Bob's neighbour that Bob went through a period of years where he didn't go to the doctor for himself and then he started going again. I'm absolutely certain that any competent family practice physician would want to check out that crooked smile and drooping eye. But would Bob even mention something like that to his offspring, considering how alienated they all seemed to be?

My point being: is it possible that someone in Bob's family did a little amateur diagnosing, came up with the wrong answer (stroke) and thought that Bob was most likely going to die relatively soon? And when Bob not only did not die but found a new lease on life via reconnecting with Fontelle, that person felt... threatened?

 

[zwiebel]

I noticed his crooked smile too. And I had a friend with Bell's palsy. You are absolutely right I think, that people could easily - most likely - mistake the symptoms for a stroke. My only worry would be that when it affects the mouth like that, doesn't it cause drooling? That might be enough to send even the most reluctant spirit - even me - to the doc!

Maybe the best way is to pull up some pics of the daughters too, to see if that crooked smile is a family thing? Worth a try, maybe. I'll give my failing search skills another trial run.......

 

[zwiebel]

Don't need to find family Grainne. Just click on this google link, then scroll down until you find two pictures with Bob and his first wife, on the right. No trace of the droop. Next to it, on the next line, is a pic of Bob older, complete with the dropped lip. Something had happened in that time.

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=ro...GJcW70QWL4oDICQ&ved=0CDEQsAQ&biw=1024&bih=644

 

[zwiebel]

That's a bit sad. We may just have sleuthed something that will enable certain people to start saying - again - that Bob wasn't in his right mind.

Still, balancing news is that even a person with no medical knowledge at all can google stroke and discover that people who have a first stroke, are at high risk of having a second, fatal stroke. So your theory could be absolutely correct, Grainne.

 

[zwiebel]

BBM

Something unusual and it probably means nothing: looking closely at Bob's picture in post #1 in this thread, it looks to me like his left eye and the left corner of his mouth droop a bit. Which could mean that he experienced Bell's palsy and was one of those people who didn't recover full movement.

Bell's palsy is an inflammation of the nerve that serves the face. No one really knows what causes it but it is most likely to be auto-immune in origin. It is characterised by an inability to fully move the eyebrow, eyelid and corner of the mouth on that side of the face. In severe cases, the eyelid has to be taped shut during sleep to protect the eye. Also any superficial lines in the forehead tend to smooth out on that side.

Most people who are affected by Bell's palsy recover in 3-6 months. Most people recover fully but some people have lingering nerve damage; the most common symptom of lingering nerve damage is a crooked smile. Just like Bob's smile.

Now here's where I think there may be a possible connection to Bob's disappearance: uninformed lay people often mistake the symptoms of Bell's palsy as evidence of a stroke. There is a fairly easy way to differentiate, which I am not going to reveal here. And then there's the horrid way to differentiate which involves electrodes in the face and electrical stimulation of the muscles of the face. The second way is obviously invasive and I know from personal experience that it is far from pleasant to undergo; many doctors would rather use the first method which is fairly accurate and not unpleasant at all.

We know from Bob's neighbour that Bob went through a period of years where he didn't go to the doctor for himself and then he started going again. I'm absolutely certain that any competent family practice physician would want to check out that crooked smile and drooping eye. But would Bob even mention something like that to his offspring, considering how alienated they all seemed to be?

My point being: is it possible that someone in Bob's family did a little amateur diagnosing, came up with the wrong answer (stroke) and thought that Bob was most likely going to die relatively soon? And when Bob not only did not die but found a new lease on life via reconnecting with Fontelle, that person felt... threatened?

Just another thought;

To prove that point of view, GrainneDhu, you'd have to prove a member of Bob's family liked researching things on the internet...................

 

[GrainneDhu]

I noticed his crooked smile too. And I had a friend with Bell's palsy. You are absolutely right I think, that people could easily - most likely - mistake the symptoms for a stroke. My only worry would be that when it affects the mouth like that, doesn't it cause drooling? That might be enough to send even the most reluctant spirit - even me - to the doc!

Maybe the best way is to pull up some pics of the daughters too, to see if that crooked smile is a family thing? Worth a try, maybe. I'll give my failing search skills another trial run.......

It depends on how badly the nerve is affected. The worst symptoms tend to be in the first few days of the attack; after the first few days, almost everyone experiences some improvement in the symptoms.

I didn't have Bell's palsy but I had nerve damage due to emergency surgery that mimics Bell's. In my case, I have a crooked smile and drooping eye, a little more severe than Bob's. During the day, drooling is not a problem but it is sometimes at night after I fall asleep.

Then again, my husband occasionally drools in his sleep and what's his excuse? <LOL> Especially if the symptoms were not particularly severe, Bob may not have bothered to tell his loving family about it.

 

[GrainneDhu]

That's a bit sad. We may just have sleuthed something that will enable certain people to start saying - again - that Bob wasn't in his right mind.

Still, balancing news is that even a person with no medical knowledge at all can google stroke and discover that people who have a first stroke, are at high risk of having a second, fatal stroke. So your theory could be absolutely correct, Grainne.

Except that Bell's palsy has no effect on the mind or on lifespan.

The easiest test to tell the difference between Bell's and a stroke takes less than 2 minutes in a doctor's office and no special equipment needed. A doctor that made house calls could make the differential, in fact.

As for the risks of strokes, I think that is common enough knowledge that there's no need to posit someone googling for it. Over the last 30 years, there have been many public service campaigns about the symptoms of stroke and the importance of getting medical attention to lower the risk of a second one.

I just quizzed Mr Grainne about it and he confirmed it (anything medical he knows is likely to be well known). It is handy living with my own test subject!

 

[believe09]

I guess at the end of the day, even if Bob wandered a way (which I disagree with), no one chose to look for him until many hours later. His knees prevented foot travel of any distance.

It perplexes me that his family on the ground in So CA didnt look for him sooner. His car was there. JeM didnt stick around-we have hashed that one over for sure. It was a super hot day, Bob could only walk short distances and his car was in the driveway. I am willing to take a leap and say the phantom SUV didnt exist-jmvho.

Not looking speaks volumes. The lack of concern speaks volumes. The insistence that Mrs Harrod file a MP report from out of state speaks volumes.

And then there is the changing clothing description...

JuM starts the time line between 12 and 1 in her interview the next day.

Angelo, is there a post shortly after the disappearance where she sets the disappearance for 28 hours prior which would start the timeline around 10AM??

 

[Seajay]

Are his kids trying to force is wife out of her home??? He was gone before he had a chance to change his Will. However, since he can't be declared dead for 5 years, she'll have been married to him for 5 years and California is a community property state so hopefully she'll come out of this with something and his kids won't get everything. Right now that is her home with her husband until he's declared dead.

 

[believe09]

As to assessment of Bob's physical health, I would think the family would have had to have been around him to determine what was what. I think there is compelling evidence, thanks to CA Exile, that none of them were around him much from the time Georgia died to the heated family meeting.

 

[believe09]

Are his kids trying to force is wife out of her home??? He was gone before he had a chance to change his Will. However, since he can't be declared dead for 5 years, she'll have been married to him for 5 years and California is a community property state so hopefully she'll come out of this with something and his kids won't get everything. Right now that is her home with her husband until he's declared dead.

It depends on how you look at it Seajay-they are having a trial next week to decide whether or not she should be compelled to pay rent for the privilege of living in her own marital home.

 

[GrainneDhu]

I guess at the end of the day, even if Bob wandered a way (which I disagree with), no one chose to look for him until many hours later. His knees prevented foot travel of any distance.

It perplexes me that his family on the ground in So CA didnt look for him sooner. His car was there. JeM didnt stick around-we have hashed that one over for sure. It was a super hot day, Bob could only walk short distances and his car was in the driveway. I am willing to take a leap and say the phantom SUV didnt exist-jmvho.

Not looking speaks volumes. The lack of concern speaks volumes. The insistence that Mrs Harrod file a MP report from out of state speaks volumes.

And then there is the changing clothing description...

JuM starts the time line between 12 and 1 in her interview the next day.

Angelo, is there a post shortly after the disappearance where she sets the disappearance for 28 hours prior which would start the timeline around 10AM??

I absolutely agree. The lack of urgency from his family is extremely telling.

My point about the Bell's palsy (I'm convinced he had it since Zweibel found the photo of Bob with Georgia where he did not have the eyelid droop and crooked smile) goes to motive. My guess is that someone in the family did something at some point before Bob disappeared on the assumption that Bob's health was compromised and he would not live much longer.

And then Bob not only continues to live, it sounds to me like he was getting more interested in life again and then he up and marries his first love!

If someone had taken an action before Bob disappeared on the assumption that Bob was not long for this world, well, that person must have been getting more and more uncomfortable. My impression of Bob is that he was frugal and wise with his money, that he understood his own financial position and was capable of administering his own affairs. If someone had engaged in some type of financial hanky-panky, they must have been getting more and more nervous.

And then there was the family fight on that Sunday. During which, I have a feeling Bob made it clear that he wasn't ready to hand over his money to his offspring and more than that, he intended to enjoy some of the fruits of his own labour.

It's one tiny step from there to wondering if someone said something that made Bob realise that he should probably do some checking of his financial records.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Are his kids trying to force is wife out of her home??? He was gone before he had a chance to change his Will. However, since he can't be declared dead for 5 years, she'll have been married to him for 5 years and California is a community property state so hopefully she'll come out of this with something and his kids won't get everything. Right now that is her home with her husband until he's declared dead.

Yes, Bob's family is trying to force Fontelle out of the house. At one point, they wanted to charge her rent (since when do spouses charge each other rent?).

In theory, while Bob is missing, his conservators are supposed to run his estate as if he were going to come back tomorrow. Unfortunately, what Bob would come back to is a house that was ransacked.

It really makes me wonder why his daughters were certain so soon that Bob would never come back.

 

[believe09]

Yes, Bob's family is trying to force Fontelle out of the house. At one point, they wanted to charge her rent (since when do spouses charge each other rent?).

In theory, while Bob is missing, his conservators are supposed to run his estate as if he were going to come back tomorrow. Unfortunately, what Bob would come back to is a house that was ransacked.

It really makes me wonder why his daughters were certain so soon that Bob would never come back.

Yup-they know perfectly well he isnt because he wouldnt stand for his house being raided and his beloved being mistreated.

In their defense, is it a reasonable assumption that he wasnt going to turn up alive?

I dont know that they thought about that-they seemed to be after everything pretty quickly, but from the outside looking in this was a family that clearly wasnt close after Georgia died. IMO.

In any case, it is probably reasonable to assume that an 81 year old man with bad knees doesnt disappear off the face of the planet typically if he doesnt have a documented history of alzheimers or the like.

However, the case is being investigated by Homicide. Speaks volumes to me too.

 

[zwiebel]

ETA: In answer to Grainne
And why JeM and AH immediately developed such an aversion to either going into Bob's home at all, or going into the home unaccompanied by an LE 'witness'.

I think you could be onto something though Grainne - I have known husbands/wives who haven't noticed the partner they see everyday has had a minor stroke affecting their face a little. But if you didn't see someone that often, it could well be more noticeable......and lead to thoughts that the person concerned might be nearing the end of their lifespan. Especially if that person was not seeing a doctor regularly, or looking after himself at the time.

That new lease of life that Fontell brought with her presence did seem to bring out a sense of panic, if not desperation, in some members of the family.

 

[believe09]

And why JeM and AH immediately developed such an aversion to either going into Bob's home at all, or going into unaccompanied by an LE 'witness'.

I think you could be onto something though Grainne - I have known husbands/wives who haven't noticed the partner they see everyday have had a minor stroke affecting their face a little. But if you didn't see someone that often, it could well be more noticeable......and lead to thoughts that the person concerned might be nearing the end of their lifespan. Especially if that person was not seeing a doctor regularly, or looking after himself at the time.

That new lease of life that Fontell brought with her presence did seem to bring out a sense of panic, if not desperation, in some members of the family.

I havent seen anything indicating that he wasnt seeing his Dr regularly. His DR made a statement to the media that seems to indicate he was confident he knew Bob well enough to be emphatic about his mental acuity.

Depression after the death of a loved one seems pretty normal, imo-and Bob had the emotional bump of returning to the arms of someone he had always loved.

 

[zwiebel]

I havent seen anything indicating that he wasnt seeing his Dr regularly. His DR made a statement to the media that seems to indicate he was confident he knew Bob well enough to be emphatic about his mental acuity.

Depression after the death of a loved one seems pretty normal, imo-and Bob had the emotional bump of returning to the arms of someone he had always loved.

I was going on one of PE's posts where I thought he said Bob had started to see his doctor again on a regular basis. I could be wrong though.

And agreed, any doctor, let alone a geriatric specialist, would be happy to confirm, I'm sure, that dementia and Alzheimers are stand alone conditions, and that Bob's coping and dealing with the loss of his long term - partner was completely normal. In fact, it seemed to me that he coped with his grief better than many people half his age would, - especially considering the special pressure he was under.

 

[zwiebel]

If we went for an emotional timeline, or maybe scaleline, it is definitely more defined than our regular one, but it kind of yo yos a little. Then it's downhill all the way.

Bob gets married without telling family beforehand.
Family are overjoyed and welcome new Mrs Harrod warmly, kindly.
Family descend on Bob when he's alone and have a heated meeting.
SIL caringly carries out last minute repairs.
SIL uncaringly runs away without searching for Bob/reporting him missing.
JuM uncaringly lets Mrs Harrod report Bob missing.
JuM caringly arranges new linens for Mrs Harrod.
Family tell Mrs Harrod she has no right to live in the family home.
Family ask for the sheets back. And the rest.
Family disputes Mrs Harrod's right to support from her husband's estate.
Family demands Mrs Harrod pays rent on her marital home.