Sidebar for Caylee Anthony's forum #14

[jane the dood]

Protection against double jeopardy is indeed a right, and not one I would want to give up. However, a person's right to a jury of their peers is also a constitutional right...and one that for many would not be given up easily.

(snipped by me)

Casey Anthony's right to a jury of her peers was granted, and unfortunately that's what we ended up with....a jury of her peers. Just as Casey Anthony was mostly interested in partying and stealing and lying, the Pinellas 12 was mostly interested in what videos they got to watch and what The Dessert Lady was going to conjure up next. Neither Casey Anthony nor the Pinellas 12 seemed remotely interested in Caylee Marie Anthony. With both the child's birth mother and this jury, Caylee was apparently deemed of no importance. Just a nuisance to be disposed of as expediently as possible.

 

[momtective]

Wouldnt it be a bombshell if one of the jury members came out and admitted jury tampering? Wonder what the result of that would be? :what:

Wish one of them would at least talk and tell us the REAL story.

Indeed! Someone from the jury please tell us what took place the night they went to watch fireworks!

 

[Steely Dan]

Just a couple of quotes; [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackstone%27s_formulation"]Blackstone's formulation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]


...Sir John Fortescue's De Laudibus Legum Angliae (c. 1470) states that "one would much rather that twenty guilty persons should escape the punishment of death, than that one innocent person should be condemned and suffer capitally." Similarly, on 3 October 1692, while decrying the Salem witch trials, Increase Mather adapted Fortescue's statement and wrote, "It were better that Ten Suspected Witches should escape, than that the Innocent Person should be Condemned."

Other commentators have echoed the principle; Benjamin Franklin stated it as, "it is better [one hundred] guilty Persons should escape than that one innocent Person should suffer".[7]

John Adams also expanded upon the rationale behind Blackstone's Formulation when he wrote: "It is more important that innocence be protected than it is that guilt be punished, for guilt and crimes are so frequent in this world that they cannot all be punished. But if innocence itself is brought to the bar and condemned, perhaps to die, then the citizen will say, "whether I do good or whether I do evil is immaterial, for innocence itself is no protection," and if such an idea as that were to take hold in the mind of the citizen that would be the end of security whatsoever."...

I mostly agree with that.

 

[redheadedgal]

i have been given the opportunity to read baez's book and am reading through the thread of all the inconsistencies, and i just want to thank everyone who posted in that thread... y'all rock!!

looks like the book is a waste... a huge waste (of my time) :floorlaugh:

:seeya:

 

[HMSHood]

I think those people suffer from narcissism and the birth defect of psychopathy. JMO

No doubt they are. They also exhibit persecutory thoughts. It seems like narcissists and psychopaths are paranoid as well. Seung-Hui Cho was likely psychotic. Austin Renaud and Ashley Grills are likely disturbed, like Dylan Klebold or Susan Smith. As for the rest, there is no doubt in my mind that they are psychopaths, like Casey Anthony, Lori Drew, Jerry Sandusky, Osama bin Laden, and Pol Pot.

 

[krkrjx]

(snipped by me)

Casey Anthony's right to a jury of her peers was granted, and unfortunately that's what we ended up with....a jury of her peers. Just as Casey Anthony was mostly interested in partying and stealing and lying, the Pinellas 12 was mostly interested in what videos they got to watch and what The Dessert Lady was going to conjure up next. Neither Casey Anthony nor the Pinellas 12 seemed remotely interested in Caylee Marie Anthony. With both the child's birth mother and this jury, Caylee was apparently deemed of no importance. Just a nuisance to be disposed of as expediently as possible.

Yes, but to fix a broken system it has been suggested perhaps changing how juries are seated to some sort of professional jury system. And that would need a constitutional amendment since now a jury of one's peers is mandated.

I think major changes could happen without major overhaul of the constitution. Jury instructions could be more clear for one thing. Most people (especially professionals) do not realize that the average reading comprehension level in this country is around 8th grade, so when speaking (as in HHJP giving the jury instructions) or writing (as in the written form of the instructions) everything needs to be at a level that the aforementioned "one's peers" can be expected to understand.

Given some of the nonsense I've read posted (on various forums) about how successful JB's tactic was, I would dare to venture a guess that many citizens outside of that jury were/are also under the impression that JB could say and do whatever he wanted in court and the jury did not have the option of ignoring any of what he said--it's a problem with level of understanding, IMO. Otherwise, there is no plausible explanation for why JB was taken seriously by the jurors. None. Nada. And the problem with level of understanding goes beyond that to people misinterpreting much of what the Constitution means.

All JMO of course.

 

[Tuffy]

I like the idea of a jury class. When I go in for jury duty they always show a video that explains things but I don't think that many pay much attention to it. So I think that participates should have to take a test upon completion to prove that they were paying attention and retained what they learned. The only problem I see is the cost of doing this.

The problem I see with it, is too many people already try pulling a lot of carp to get out of jury duty now. If all they had to do was fail a jury test, the courts would really get bogged down waiting for a decent jury pool.

 

[RANCH]

Yes, but to fix a broken system it has been suggested perhaps changing how juries are seated to some sort of professional jury system. And that would need a constitutional amendment since now a jury of one's peers is mandated.

I think major changes could happen without major overhaul of the constitution. Jury instructions could be more clear for one thing. Most people (especially professionals) do not realize that the average reading comprehension level in this country is around 8th grade, so when speaking (as in HHJP giving the jury instructions) or writing (as in the written form of the instructions) everything needs to be at a level that the aforementioned "one's peers" can be expected to understand.

Given some of the nonsense I've read posted (on various forums) about how successful JB's tactic was, I would dare to venture a guess that many citizens outside of that jury were/are also under the impression that JB could say and do whatever he wanted in court and the jury did not have the option of ignoring any of what he said--it's a problem with level of understanding, IMO. Otherwise, there is no plausible explanation for why JB was taken seriously by the jurors. None. Nada. And the problem with level of understanding goes beyond that to people misinterpreting much of what the Constitution means.

All JMO of course.

I'm not following your interpretation of "ones peers". You seem to be saying that the educational level of the jury must match the defendant and the judge needs to instruct the jury at whatever that level is. What if the defendant is a PhD. Does that mean that a jury his peers must all be PhD's?

 

[Desdemona]

There were no "suicide" searches. The only interesting search on June 16 was for "fool-proof suffication."

And IMO George's suicide attempt was not staged to explain the search--if it were, it would have been an attempt involving suffocation.

Well... of course WE know there were no suicide searches, but that is exactly how JB tried to sell it in his book!

Remember, in the book JB propounds that these searches were done by a guilt-ridden George; one 'proof' being that George was the only one with access to the computer who later proved himself to be suicidal. He implies that George was looking up ways to off himself; not necessarily that he discovered and decided upon a method that day.

Incidentally, the fact that GA's suicide attempt did not involve a foolproof suffocation method could be considered an argument for it's being staged -- if the attempt were meant to protect FCA from the taint of these searches by making George look suicidal -- in other words if the attempt were only for show -- he would certainly not have chosen a foolproof method of any kind, KWIM?

JMO

 

[Tuffy]

Just a couple of quotes; Blackstone's formulation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


...Sir John Fortescue's De Laudibus Legum Angliae (c. 1470) states that "one would much rather that twenty guilty persons should escape the punishment of death, than that one innocent person should be condemned and suffer capitally." Similarly, on 3 October 1692, while decrying the Salem witch trials, Increase Mather adapted Fortescue's statement and wrote, "It were better that Ten Suspected Witches should escape, than that the Innocent Person should be Condemned."

Other commentators have echoed the principle; Benjamin Franklin stated it as, "it is better [one hundred] guilty Persons should escape than that one innocent Person should suffer".[7]

John Adams also expanded upon the rationale behind Blackstone's Formulation when he wrote: "It is more important that innocence be protected than it is that guilt be punished, for guilt and crimes are so frequent in this world that they cannot all be punished. But if innocence itself is brought to the bar and condemned, perhaps to die, then the citizen will say, "whether I do good or whether I do evil is immaterial, for innocence itself is no protection," and if such an idea as that were to take hold in the mind of the citizen that would be the end of security whatsoever."...

I mostly agree with that.

:goodpost: As much as the Anthony verdict bothered me (and bothered it putting it lightly) I would not want to live under any other justice system.

This case really captured me, and I sincerely believed all along that I would be watching the trial that would see justice served for little Caylee. I was emotionally down in the dumps after it. I won't let this case cloud my feelings about the foundation of our system though.

 

[RANCH]

The problem I see with it, is too many people already try pulling a lot of carp to get out of jury duty now. If all they had to do was fail a jury test, the courts would really get bogged down waiting for a decent jury pool.

True. But I don't think that forcing people to be on jury's makes sense at all. You end up with a P12 jury who could care less about the victim or protecting society and just want to go home and watch American Idol.

This is were a professional jury may work better. MOO.

 

[LolaMoon08]

I was just reading on one of those 'Where is Casey Anthony now' sites, where it is reported that she is working at a dental clinic in Acworth Ga....
I have no idea if this is true or not...... but isn't that where Rosalie Bolin was from - the convicted killer's wife who acted as mitigation 'specialist' on the defense, for a while...? Anyone remember?

Working in a dental office? I hope they keep good inventory on whatever it is they use to knock people out during dental procedures.

In all honesty, I do not think Casey has a job other than doing google/twitter/facebook searches for her name all day and online shopping on Dr. Phil's dime.

 

[HMSHood]

I was just reading on one of those 'Where is Casey Anthony now' sites, where it is reported that she is working at a dental clinic in Acworth Ga....
I have no idea if this is true or not...... but isn't that where Rosalie Bolin was from - the convicted killer's wife who acted as mitigation 'specialist' on the defense, for a while...? Anyone remember?

Not likely in my opinion. I am thinking she wants to go to Pennsylvania to have conjugal visits with Jerry Sandusky. :floorlaugh: :crazy:

 

[chefmom]

(snipped by me)

Casey Anthony's right to a jury of her peers was granted, and unfortunately that's what we ended up with....a jury of her peers. Just as Casey Anthony was mostly interested in partying and stealing and lying, the Pinellas 12 was mostly interested in what videos they got to watch and what The Dessert Lady was going to conjure up next. Neither Casey Anthony nor the Pinellas 12 seemed remotely interested in Caylee Marie Anthony. With both the child's birth mother and this jury, Caylee was apparently deemed of no importance. Just a nuisance to be disposed of as expediently as possible.

Excellent post! I agree 100%!

 

[ZsaZsa]

:goodpost: As much as the Anthony verdict bothered me (and bothered it putting it lightly) I would not want to live under any other justice system.

This case really captured me, and I sincerely believed all along that I would be watching the trial that would see justice served for little Caylee. I was emotionally down in the dumps after it. I won't let this case cloud my feelings about the foundation of our system though.

I might feel a bit better about the system if people like Cindy
Anthony who commit perjury during a murder trial, actually suffered some penalty for it.
What is the point of the swearing in at the start of a person's testimony?
She made a laughing stock of that court and no one had the guts to do anything about it. They just let her spit on Caylee's grave again.
She should be serving time IMO ..

 

[Steely Dan]

Working in a dental office? I hope they keep good inventory on whatever it is they use to knock people out during dental procedures.

In all honesty, I do not think Casey has a job other than doing google/twitter/facebook searches for her name all day and online shopping on Dr. Phil's dime.

BBM

Oh, my, God! I never thought of that!!!

I might feel a bit better about the system if people like Cindy
Anthony who commit perjury during a murder trial, actually suffered some penalty for it.
What is the point of the swearing in at the start of a person's testimony?
She made a laughing stock of that court and no one had the guts to do anything about it. They just let her spit on Caylee's grave again.
She should be serving time IMO ..

I wouldn't mind the prosecution getting a do over if they can prove a witness perjured themselves. JMO

 

[ZsaZsa]

The idea behind Double Jeopardy is to prevent the State from trying someone over and over until they get what they want. How often does an acquittal happen with as strong of a case as this one? Not very often in my opinion. I think that removing this very important protection from the US Constitution to remedy a few injustices would be overkill.

The problem in this case wasn't so much that Jose Baez lied and fabricated things during the trial, but the fact that the jury went along with his ideas without solid evidence to support them. So in my opinion the problem lies with the jury and not so much the defense.

I think that it would be more beneficial if we look at ways to get better juries before we give up our rights. Changes in jury selection rules? A professional jury? MOO

http://www.revolutionary-war-and-beyond.com/double-jeopardy-clause.html

I don't see the harm in revisiting a case where evidence comes to light after the original accquittal that the accused is absolutely guilty. It makes a mockery of the word justice to let those decisions stand IMO.
I think the Scots are way ahead of us- they wisely changed their laws to enable further prosecution. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-15905139

 

[PrincessSezMe]

I was just reading on one of those 'Where is Casey Anthony now' sites, where it is reported that she is working at a dental clinic in Acworth Ga....
I have no idea if this is true or not...... but isn't that where Rosalie Bolin was from - the convicted killer's wife who acted as mitigation 'specialist' on the defense, for a while...? Anyone remember?

Casey Anthony working? LoL, I'd believe that like I'd believe Cindy is currently filling her time doing volunteer work for Texas Equusearch. :floorlaugh:

I can't seem to find any info on where Rosalie Bolin is from, but I found this interesting article when I went looking for some background http://articles.orlandosentinel.com..._casey-anthony-todd-macaluso-death-row-inmate. Baez sure had some pretty "colorful" and controversial people on his team. I had never heard all of this dirt on Macaluso before. I guess birds of a feather flock together LoL. :giggle:

When you think about all of the lawyers involved in this travesty of justice, it's enough to make you sick. Did any one of them have any scruples? Cheney Mason (enough said), Linda Kenny-Baden (enough said), Todd Macaluso (MORE than enough said), Dottie Sims (who adopted KC as her "pet"..lots of stroking and petting), and the king of fools himself Jose Baez. They all gained notoriety, unfortunately. But the bright side is......it's for all the wrong reasons. The stink of this case will likely follow them for the rest of their careers. I guess they'll still benefit from it though. Guilty people will think hiring one of them is a guaranteed "get out of jail free" card. :aktion1:

 

[RANCH]

I don't see the harm in revisiting a case where evidence comes to light after the original accquittal that the accused is absolutely guilty. It makes a mockery of the word justice to let those decisions stand IMO.
I think the Scots are way ahead of us- they wisely changed their laws to enable further prosecution. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-15905139

I agree that it's something that can be looked at. Do you think that we are in the same situation here in the Caylee Anthony case as in the case in your link? What I'm saying is do we have "compelling new evidence" that proves KC's guilt, or do we have another piece of circumstantial evidence in what was already a strong circumstantial evidence case.

 

[Gnatcatcher]

I was just reading on one of those 'Where is Casey Anthony now' sites, where it is reported that she is working at a dental clinic in Acworth Ga....
I have no idea if this is true or not...... but isn't that where Rosalie Bolin was from - the convicted killer's wife who acted as mitigation 'specialist' on the defense, for a while...? Anyone remember?

I see 6 dental clinics in Acworth, GA on yellowpages.com
http://www.yellowpages.com/acworth-ga/dental-clinics