AK, NY Israel Keyes - Who are all of his victims???

[Betty P]

Keyes funeral will be held this Sunday in Deer Park, WA.

A few new statements about him from the family, relayed through their Pastor.

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/12/07/3131168/israel-keyes-rejected-religion.html

The pastor sounds very strange. Reporting on a wedding Keyes attended just prior to his arrest

It was at the wedding the next day or the day after, northeast of Wells in the city of Nacogdoches, that Keyes caused a bigger stir among the congregation, Gardner said. The wedding was outdoors, with 50 to 100 people in attendance, he said. Keyes' outburst came after 45 minutes of sermon, the marriage ceremony and more preaching, at least some of which was directed at Keyes, the pastor said.

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/12/07/3131168_p2/israel-keyes-rejected-religion.html#storylink=cpy

A wedding ceremony with 45 minutes of preaching beforehand, then the ceremony, then more preaching? No sympathy for Keyes, but that sounds like a cray cray kind of "wedding".

Gardner said Keyes' mother heard "bits and pieces" of her son's alleged crimes in the weeks and months that followed. She was now willing to let Gardner (the preacher) share his stories about the earlier encounters with Keyes, because she thought people were too fearful and focused on her son as a serial killer, not fearful of the "eternal" consequences of living a life without seeking Christian salvation.

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/12/07/3131168_p2/israel-keyes-rejected-religion.html#storylink=cpy

If this preacher knew something of what Keyes was up to, why didn't he turn him in, instead of just sermonizing?

Now the preacher is traveling to WA to preach at Keyes' funeral.

Keyes had a whole lot of things wrong, in his head, his soul, and in the environment he lived in.

 

[geojeffrey]

hey--what do you guys think about this perp? look at the sketch, but especially look at the ATM teller pics. some notable similarities...meticulous, organized and pure evil.

http://www.amw.com/fugitives/case.cfm?id=37694

http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/vicap/homicides-and-sexual-assaults/victim-oakey-al-kite-jr/view

 

[Claudette]

I grew up not far from John Wayne Gacy's home. I became fascinated by serial killers at a young age, went into college studying Psychology with hopes of doing something with criminals but then went elsewhere with my life. I have always been so fascinated by SKs, but I don't tell people because really, it IS kind of strange and morbid but I know you all get what I mean.

That being said -

What we know about Israel goes against what I personally know about SKs (my official studies ended around 2003 and lots happens in 10 years). To me, SKs usually have similar types of victims or stay within a defined area. There is always a "method to the madness".

Not only did Israel not stick with similar types of victims - age ranges all over the map, both genders AND couples and non-couples - but he traveled all over the place, possibly into other countries. AND he planned years ahead, planting his weapons!

Have we EVER heard of anything like this before?

In terms of criminal psychology this is SO fascinating. I mean this purely from a factual and informative POV and I don't mean to undermine the horror the victims went through.

This is really big.

 

[ConnectedSuitor]

The pastor sounds very strange. Reporting on a wedding Keyes attended just prior to his arrest



Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/12/07/3131168_p2/israel-keyes-rejected-religion.html#storylink=cpy

A wedding ceremony with 45 minutes of preaching beforehand, then the ceremony, then more preaching? No sympathy for Keyes, but that sounds like a cray cray kind of "wedding".



Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/12/07/3131168_p2/israel-keyes-rejected-religion.html#storylink=cpy

If this preacher knew something of what Keyes was up to, why didn't he turn him in, instead of just sermonizing?

Now the preacher is traveling to WA to preach at Keyes' funeral.

Keyes had a whole lot of things wrong, in his head, his soul, and in the environment he lived in.

I'm really disgusted by crappy journalism in this case but I guess it is a symptom of the struggling news industry. I read in another article (http://www.ktva.com/news/samantha-k...ael-Keyes-Scheduled-for-Sunday-182473381.html) that this preacher never even met Keyes, he is simply relaying info from the mother and sisters. The reporters keep making inferences in this case which is frustrating since it is complicated enough.

 

[ConnectedSuitor]

http://www.alaskadispatch.com/article/investigators-keyes-killing-spree-may-have-claimed-11-victims

Investigators: Keyes killing spree may have claimed 11 victims

A leading federal prosecutor believes Israel Keyes may have brutally murdered at least 11 people -- three more than originally reported -- strangling them when possible so he could enjoy watching them suffer as they died.

Keyes got a high from killing and shivered with adrenaline when he recounted his murders, presenting a stark break from his usual calmness during interviews, said Frank Russo, assistant U.S. attorney for Alaska.

Yet Keyes was reluctant to provide details of his killings because he worried about how his family would view him, especially his daughter, who is 10 or 11 years old.

"He was very conscious of his daughter Googling him years from now and having to deal with the fallout from this," Russo said. "This is a guy who really cared about his family. And he would say I'm not trying to kill them or give them heart attacks."
'We lost this case'

<modsnip>

Contact Alex DeMarban at alex(at)alaskadispatch.com

 

[Knox]

I grew up not far from John Wayne Gacy's home. I became fascinated by serial killers at a young age, went into college studying Psychology with hopes of doing something with criminals but then went elsewhere with my life. I have always been so fascinated by SKs, but I don't tell people because really, it IS kind of strange and morbid but I know you all get what I mean.

That being said -

What we know about Israel goes against what I personally know about SKs (my official studies ended around 2003 and lots happens in 10 years). To me, SKs usually have similar types of victims or stay within a defined area. There is always a "method to the madness".

Not only did Israel not stick with similar types of victims - age ranges all over the map, both genders AND couples and non-couples - but he traveled all over the place, possibly into other countries. AND he planned years ahead, planting his weapons!

Have we EVER heard of anything like this before?

In terms of criminal psychology this is SO fascinating. I mean this purely from a factual and informative POV and I don't mean to undermine the horror the victims went through.

This is really big.

This article should interest you Claudette. A few things we had not heard before:

• Keyes got a high from killing and shivered with adrenaline when he recounted his murders, presenting a stark break from his usual calmness during interviews

• Keyes was reluctant to provide details of his killings because he worried about how his family would view him, especially his daughter, who is 10 or 11 years old. "He was very conscious of his daughter Googling him years from now and having to deal with the fallout from this

• Russo said he believes Keyes killed as many as 11 or 12 people. The FBI and Anchorage Police Department investigators also upped the number on Friday, saying Keyes may have had 11 victims. They'd previously said at least eight. FBI agent Darren Jones said the FBI always thought there might be more than eight. Additional information makes them confident there's more. But no one may ever know the real number (inserting my thought here, bloody sheets of paper found in his cell, have revealed more information to investigators)

• At some point he realized he was different. He always thought other people were pretending to be nice to other people and then he realized at some point only he was pretending. He described an incident when he was younger -- how he tortured a cat in front of his friends and everybody got sick and ran away from him. He realized he should shut up about this stuff because he was different.

• Before killing the Curriers and Koenig, Keyes&#8217; killings didn't attract much attention. He noted that missing men, in particular, didn't get attention. People just assume they've left home. "He goes, 'Oddly the bank robbery I did in New York got more publicity than the person I took and killed,&#8217; " Russo said.

• Keyes also told investigators that because of his daughter, children were off limits. That's one reason he chose to kill the Curriers in Vermont -- they had no children.

http://www.alaskadispatch.com/article/investigators-keyes-killing-spree-may-have-claimed-11-victims

 

[Knox]

Before killing the Curriers and Koenig, Keyes&#8217; killings didn't attract much attention. He noted that missing men, in particular, didn't get attention. People just assume they've left home. "He goes, 'Oddly the bank robbery I did in New York got more publicity than the person I took and killed,&#8217; " Russo said.

An FBI spokesman in Albany says 34-year-old Israel Keyes told authorities the Community Bank branch in Tupper Lake was one of several he held up to pay for his travel.

State Police Capt. Robert LaFountain says Tuesday the robber threatened people with a handgun. Nobody was hurt during the April 2009 holdup.

http://www.ktuu.com/news/israel-key...k-bank-fbi-says-ktuu-20121204,0,5190899.story

I think we should look for a man who was reported missing in April 2009, within a 100 mile radius of Tupper Lake and Constable areas, to include Vermont and Canada.

 

[chicagofa13]

Unsure if this is old news for those of you here, but I was reading The Oregonian and saw this:

http://mobile.oregonlive.com/advorg...jY3&detailindex=2&pn=0&ps=5&full=true#display

Unsolved from 2005
Stevan Haugen, 54, and his girlfriend Jeanette Bauman, 56, were found shot to death near their campsite about 25 miles from their home in Oakridge.

 

[Foxfire]

I grew up not far from John Wayne Gacy's home. I became fascinated by serial killers at a young age, went into college studying Psychology with hopes of doing something with criminals but then went elsewhere with my life. I have always been so fascinated by SKs, but I don't tell people because really, it IS kind of strange and morbid but I know you all get what I mean.

That being said -

What we know about Israel goes against what I personally know about SKs (my official studies ended around 2003 and lots happens in 10 years). To me, SKs usually have similar types of victims or stay within a defined area. There is always a "method to the madness".

Not only did Israel not stick with similar types of victims - age ranges all over the map, both genders AND couples and non-couples - but he traveled all over the place, possibly into other countries. AND he planned years ahead, planting his weapons!

Have we EVER heard of anything like this before?

In terms of criminal psychology this is SO fascinating. I mean this purely from a factual and informative POV and I don't mean to undermine the horror the victims went through.

This is really big.

RE: I have always been so fascinated by SKs, but I don't tell people because really, it IS kind of strange and morbid but I know you all get what I mean.

Yep, Claudette, guess it is best to keep some things close to the vest, huh?:notgood:
As forensic and other investigative technology advances, so do sexual predators & serial killers..

Seems that many serial killers of today are either very intelligent, idiot savant, or simply hone their skills with each innocent victim devoured. Many that I have studied, not only learn from their mistakes but from the mistakes of serial killers prior. I refer to them as emulators; a new breed of copycat/hybrids. They are forensically aware, as well as being up on the latest investigative strategies & techniques of investigators. Keyes admitted to studying others and said that he could relate to Bundy. Thought it very ironic that Keyes comitted suicide on the same date that 'The Frozen Ground'- Alaskan SK Robert Hansen movie was originally scheduled for release.

With the advent of the internet, smart phones, modes of transportation, gps, etc., in many cases behavioral and geographical profiling is rendered useless as is shown by Israel Keye's unconventional trail of terror. Keyes; a stealth predator gives new meaning to jurisdictional linkage blindness and could have rewritten the book on rules of prey.. They say that to understand the artist, you have to interpret their artwork. Israel Keys' art was very dark and very abstract..

I have always wondered if the motive for the FBI BAU changing the definition of serial killer from 3 victims to 2 in 2005 was to decrease society's fascination of them, by dramatically increasing their numbers..

 

[allaster]

It is possible he is linked to Kellisue Ackernecht her job at Rite Aid was located of 30 North in Amsterdam NY one of Keyes routes. His whereabouts where unknown from Sept 24,08 till October 24, 08 http://findkellisue.wordpress.com/

 

[carbuff]

This article should interest you Claudette. A few things we had not heard before:

• Keyes got a high from killing and shivered with adrenaline when he recounted his murders, presenting a stark break from his usual calmness during interviews

• Keyes was reluctant to provide details of his killings because he worried about how his family would view him, especially his daughter, who is 10 or 11 years old. "He was very conscious of his daughter Googling him years from now and having to deal with the fallout from this

• Russo said he believes Keyes killed as many as 11 or 12 people. The FBI and Anchorage Police Department investigators also upped the number on Friday, saying Keyes may have had 11 victims. They'd previously said at least eight. FBI agent Darren Jones said the FBI always thought there might be more than eight. Additional information makes them confident there's more. But no one may ever know the real number (inserting my thought here, bloody sheets of paper found in his cell, have revealed more information to investigators)

• At some point he realized he was different. He always thought other people were pretending to be nice to other people and then he realized at some point only he was pretending. He described an incident when he was younger -- how he tortured a cat in front of his friends and everybody got sick and ran away from him. He realized he should shut up about this stuff because he was different.

• Before killing the Curriers and Koenig, Keyes’ killings didn't attract much attention. He noted that missing men, in particular, didn't get attention. People just assume they've left home. "He goes, 'Oddly the bank robbery I did in New York got more publicity than the person I took and killed,’ " Russo said.

• Keyes also told investigators that because of his daughter, children were off limits. That's one reason he chose to kill the Curriers in Vermont -- they had no children.

http://www.alaskadispatch.com/article/investigators-keyes-killing-spree-may-have-claimed-11-victims

I would say based on this that the 2009 victim is a single or childless man.

 

[Herding Cats]

His reluctance to hurt children, he says, was because of his daughter. She is 11 or 12 years old, so that would go back to around the time of his discharge from the armed services.

This tells me that before that, he didn't care much if there was a child present or if his victim had a child...

Or alternatively, it could also indicate that his father's death was so impactful on him and/or his family that he would not cause that sort of pain toward children.

Does anyone know when his father died?

It is also very clear that he didn't divulge too many details, to protect his daughter and her ability to deal with things as she grows up and becomes an adult. Which is terribly fascinating...tells me he had some sort of sympathy/empathy, at least towards his little girl...which indicates his pathology is NOT as simple as sociopathy. It is very layered, very detailed, and very compartmentalized. We see that in a way with Bundy, but with few other SKs, or at least not that firmly boundaried.

This is also an interesting thing inasmuch as it does tell us a little something about his victim selection. Which also tells us that he had to watch, to "stalk", his victims, so as to not harm a parent. Which falls directly in line with his planning and his caching supplies.

Claudette, you are right. This is a huge thing in the world of SKs.

I need to take my puppies to the park for a few hours, but I will be back, and I plan on spending some time on researching his whereabouts and possible victims in the area this weekend.

Best-
Herding Cats

 

[Claudette]

I have always wondered if the motive for the FBI BAU changing the definition of serial killer from 3 victims to 2 in 2005 was to decrease society's fascination of them, by dramatically increasing their numbers..

I didn't realize they changed this!

 

[Knox]

Foxfire I know (from other cases), you have extensive knowledge of SK's, I look forward to hearing from you all on Keyes.

He said he knew from a young age he was different. Nothing new there, we have heard that in regards to many SK. What I am curious about is whether they are born that way? There are no nurturing issues at play? It's strictly organic?

The circumstances of the death of the baby, who parents were members of this church aside. I listened to a portion of one of Gardener's sermons online. The focus seemed to be on Sin and Satan. IMO, he is preaching a ministry of fear and death, instead of hope and life. His tenants are correct, but his pendulum has swung too far. This type of theology is used to control and isolate members. I believe the correct term is "cult".

I don't want to overly focus on this aspect, but I sense this type of religion is nothing new in the Keyes family and wonder if this plays a part in who he became.

 

[carbuff]

It's hard to make any generalizations about serial killers. The pedophile who kidnaps, rapes, and murders children is far different from the truck driver who picks up a prostitute, then murders her and dumps her when he's tired of her, and they're both way different than someone like Keyes or the Speed Freak Killers. There are killers who need a certain victim and there are killers who just need to kill.

It seems like many if not most of them have gone wrong somewhere in their development. I personally doubt if most of them were born as complete killers; there's learning involved and I've seen more than one pediatric psychiatrist assert that for most children, treatment after early incidents with animals can teach most of them to understand why what they're doing is wrong. Most psychopaths and sociopaths learn to be perfectly functional.

The way Keyes talks about his behavior and development, I suspect he might have been one of those. No matter how much he relished what he was doing, he doesn't talk like he wanted to be that kind of person.

 

[Claudette]

It's hard to make any generalizations about serial killers. The pedophile who kidnaps, rapes, and murders children is far different from the truck driver who picks up a prostitute, then murders her and dumps her when he's tired of her, and they're both way different than someone like Keyes or the Speed Freak Killers. There are killers who need a certain victim and there are killers who just need to kill.

It seems like many if not most of them have gone wrong somewhere in their development. I personally doubt if most of them were born as complete killers; there's learning involved and I've seen more than one pediatric psychiatrist assert that for most children, treatment after early incidents with animals can teach most of them to understand why what they're doing is wrong. Most psychopaths and sociopaths learn to be perfectly functional.

The way Keyes talks about his behavior and development, I suspect he might have been one of those. No matter how much he relished what he was doing, he doesn't talk like he wanted to be that kind of person.

Oh yeah, completely forgot about the SFKs.

MOO - I think a few SKs are born that way (this just cued Lady Gaga in my head, my brain is so inappropriate lol), but I think some people in general are born with something different or missing, or a sensitivity to something, where if they are exposed to trauma/abuse/drugs it makes them more likely to be SKs and I think this happens in childhood through the teen years.

I've read that a lot of SKs have ADD. I do as well, it was really severe as a kid. I still struggle with it though it has decreased in severity. I really do believe it provides a gateway to the loose screw that SKs have. Couple that with this: I've also read that the ADD brain is about 2 years behind in "brain growth" than a non-ADD brain. Think of a 12 year old that has the mind of a 10 year old, for example. It makes a lot of sense - eventually the brain growth catches up but in those crucial kid/teen years it opens up the individual to teasing because of stunted maturity and trouble in school. Which leads to low self-esteem. If the kid has a bad family life they don't get support or positive influences in their life. Thus possibly leading to the "loose screw".

 

[Foxfire]

I didn't realize they changed this!

'Times, they are a changin, Claudette'..
Prolific Psychopathic Sadistic Serial Killers such as Israel Keys are very evil, intelligent, deflective, creative, calculating, manipulative, and Narcissistic.


http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/pu.../serial-murder

Serial Murder
Behavioral Analysis Unit-2
National Center for the Analysis of Violent Crime
Critical Incident Response Group
Federal Bureau of Investigation

September 2, 2005

The goal of the Symposium was to bring together a group of respected experts on serial murder from a variety of fields and specialties, to identify the commonalities of knowledge regarding serial murder.
II. Definition of Serial Murder

In the past thirty years, multiple definitions of serial murder have been used by law enforcement, clinicians, academia, and researchers. While these definitions do share several common themes, they differ on specific requirements, such as the number of murders involved, the types of motivation, and the temporal aspects of the murders. To address these discrepancies, attendees at the Serial Murder Symposium examined the variations in order to develop a single definition for serial murder.

The different discussion groups at the Symposium agreed on a number of similar factors to be included in a definition. These included:

• one or more offenders
• two or more murdered victims
• incidents should be occurring in separate events, at different times
• the time period between murders separates serial murder from mass murder

In combining the various ideas put forth at the Symposium, the following definition was crafted:

Serial Murder: The unlawful killing of two or more victims by the same offender(s), in separate events.

 

[Foxfire]

Oh yeah, completely forgot about the SFKs.

MOO - I think a few SKs are born that way (this just cued Lady Gaga in my head, my brain is so inappropriate lol), but I think some people in general are born with something different or missing, or a sensitivity to something, where if they are exposed to trauma/abuse/drugs it makes them more likely to be SKs and I think this happens in childhood through the teen years.

I've read that a lot of SKs have ADD. I do as well, it was really severe as a kid. I still struggle with it though it has decreased in severity. I really do believe it provides a gateway to the loose screw that SKs have. Couple that with this: I've also read that the ADD brain is about 2 years behind in "brain growth" than a non-ADD brain. Think of a 12 year old that has the mind of a 10 year old, for example. It makes a lot of sense - eventually the brain growth catches up but in those crucial kid/teen years it opens up the individual to teasing because of stunted maturity and trouble in school. Which leads to low self-esteem. If the kid has a bad family life they don't get support or positive influences in their life. Thus possibly leading to the "loose screw".

RE: (this just cued Lady Gaga in my head, my brain is so inappropriate lol)

Guess, it is her creativity, huh?
Seems most serial killers cross the threshold at the age of 14/15. SKs don't think like we do, just more rapidly, and are always one step ahead. It is as if they think from their subliminal, or the other side of their brain...

I've always wondered why many childhood SKs preferred torturing cats as opposed to other animals. While researching Edmund Kemper; "Big Eddie" the gentle giant. The answer now seems obvious; cat>feline>female..

re: SFKs
Over the past 3 decades, meth is one common denominator that comes up time & time again, either directly or indirectly. Imo, meth creates demonic psychopathic personalities, synonomous with the effects of cannibalism cult in Papua New Guinea tribe..

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/13/papua-new-guinea-cannibals_n_1670688.html
CANBERRA, Australia -- Authorities have arrested 29 people accused of being part of a cannibal cult in the Papua New Guinea's jungle interior and charged them with the murders of seven suspected witch doctors, police said Friday.

Four of the seven victims were murdered last week, Wagambie said, adding that no remains had been recovered.

"They're probably all eaten up," he said.
(snipped)
***********
RE: Gacy

DNA have been put into FBI CODIS -'About time huh'?

http://www.hlntv.com/article/2012/12/04/did-john-wayne-gacy-have-more-victims
3 days ago &#8211; serial killer John Wayne Gacy was found guilty of raping and killing 33 boys ... Three executed killers' DNA have been put into CODIS so far...(snipped-read more)

 

[Foxfire]

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/201...d-only-say-why-not-when-asked-for-motive?lite

By Mark Thiessen , The Associated Press
ANCHORAGE, Alaska -- Confessed serial killer Israel Keyes admitted he enjoyed killing people, but couldn't or wouldn't give investigators a more meaningful answer when quizzed why he did it.


"There were just times, a couple of times, where we would try to get a why," said Anchorage Police officer Jeff Bell, who helped interrogate Keyes for hours.
"He would have this term, he would say, 'A lot of people ask why, and I would be, like, why not?'" Bell said.
(snipped-read more)

______________________

Wish LE would release the transcripts of the interviews. My question is why experienced behavior profilers from the FBI BAU2 were not conducting the interviews on Israel Keyes. Keyes had another self. Imo, the whys and whos of Israel Keys two decade trail of terror may never be known...

 

[Foxfire]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/08/serial-killer-israel-keyes_n_2262349.html

Keyes confessed to killing eight people across the United States, but alluded to additional murders, FBI Special Agent Jolene Goeden and Bell told The Associated Press.

"Based on some of the things he told us, and some of the conversations we had with him, we believe the number is less than 12," Goeden said. "We don't know for sure. He's the only one who could have ultimately answered that."

They may never know the true number.

The interviews also revealed Keyes' motivation, which was simple, Goeden and Bell said.

"He enjoyed it. He liked what he was doing," Goeden said. "He talked about getting a rush out of it, the adrenalin, the excitement out of it."

Keyes also liked seeing coverage of his crimes in the media, and he appeared to get a thrill out of talking about some of them with investigators, Goeden and Bell said.
(snipped)