Sidebar for Caylee Anthony's forum #15

New Posts

Status
Not open for further replies.
logicalgirl said:
I would like to agree with you but I can't regarding FCA. I don't believe that empathy for other people or even consideration for them can be taught to a sociopath.

I do believe they can be socialized, or at least someone them, to learn and understand the consequences of their behavior. Some sociopaths come from loving stable homes - and it makes no difference to a sociopath who has an empty hole for emotions beyond themselves. All IMO :moo:
Click to expand...

Right. But was she a sociopath at 6 months old? Or did her environment shape her into a child that had tendencies and then an adult that was full blown?

I do not believe that there are evil babies or even evil children that were predetermined at birth to be such a way. We do learn empathy, and when we don't it is because it was not shown to us or extended to us amongst other reasons. Our ability for compassion and empathy can be stunted by our environments and socialization.

Cindy is VERY disordered and narcissistic for sure. She was also a very permissive yet controlling parent. Permissive parenting has terrible effects on children, and if Casey had innate traits in her personality that could make her more susceptible that is one thing, but to be born evil is entirely another.
 
JBounds said:
Was going to start a thread about this but will post it in here cause not sure where else to post this. Mods if you think it needs to be moved. Please do. Anyway, It sort of resurrects the idea about the CA&KC fight and that she claims she had to move the day Caylee died. Very interesting...

I don't think if it had been introduced into the Court about the fight it would been hearsay. I think for all intense and purposes they were afraid it would be. I think here lies the missing puzzle on what made KC if someone in that family ever indulges and expand on that fight. Which probably won't happen.

I also think they are spot on about Jesse and the motive. It takes in quite a different direction, but it is very plausible.

http://www.examiner.com/article/casey-anthony-latest-news-casey-said-she-had-to-move-same-day-caylee-died
Click to expand...

Thanks for this. While going over the again timeline recently, it struck me that she kept mentioning to people (Jesse) and (Playboi aim chat) on the morning that Caylee died, that she "could not stay at her parents anymore." It was strange. I wondered if it were true due to the fight with Cindy or if she knew what she was about to do (jesse actually interrupted her!) and therefore, knew she could never come back to that house to live again because she wouldn't be able to produce and answer for Caylee.

We know she never did sleep there again for the next 31 days and was possibly setting up the Jeff Hopkins story as a way to get out of coming home ever again.

Very interesting.
 
Spice said:
It is only my opinion based my field of study and area of work, but I do not come from the belief system that Sociopaths are simply born. I lean very much toward the "nurture" argument in the great nature vs nurture psychology debate. People have been arguing and debating this academically forever basically and they will probably never totally agree.

There is a general belief on both sides though, that environment has A LOT to do with how a person's personality, disordered or not, develops.

I understand that some believe that she was a sociopath and that was determined at birth, but I am pretty much against that view, as it is narrow, and discounts the all important and very real concept of nurture or lack there of.
There is a ton more empirical evidence and study that supports the effects of nurture and environment on personality than there is "determinism." Socialization is everything. We are born with a race and a gender. That. is.all. Everything after that is socialization.

That house was the perfect petri dish to grow a narcissist or a sociopath. Cindy is no victim, she is very disordered herself, and before Casey grew into a young adult, Cindy was the one the ruled that roost.

JMO.
Click to expand...


You know a lot more about this than I do, but I wanted to add something. There's an episode of "Through the wormhole with Morgan Freeman" that talks about psychopaths.

A psychiatrist started working with psychopaths in prisons to find out why they did what they did. He discovered that they all seemed to have the same brain defect found through MRI, and a gene identified as the "Warrior Gene".

While he was doing this his mother told him to research his family because they were descendants of Lizzy Borden. So he took MRI's of his entire family and started looking at them. He found one that had the exact brain scan as the psychopaths. At first he thought that a prisoner's scan had gotten mixed in with his families, but was shocked to find out it was his own scan.

He was obviously unsettled by this and asked his family if he had any strange behaviors that would make them think he's a psychopath. They all seemed unsurprised by this finding. His son, on camera, said there had been times he was afraid of him.

He concluded that if a psychopath is raised in a loving home with good parents they could fit into society. If they had a horrible upbringing. Like SA, or PA they would become the more dangerous type of psychopath. I thought it was really interesting. I think being a psychopath starts as a birth defect and then is guided by their environment. JMO

zoey said:
IIRC they even said that she was a virgin....:what::banghead:
Click to expand...

I believe KC told them that in order for her to be pregnant she had to have had sex and she never had. IIRC.
 
Steely Dan said:
You know a lot more about this than I do, but I wanted to add something. There's an episode of "Through the wormhole with Morgan Freeman" that talks about psychopaths.

A psychiatrist started working with psychopaths in prisons to find out why they did what they did. He discovered that they all seemed to have the same brain defect found through MRI, and a gene identified as the "Warrior Gene".

While he was doing this his mother told him to research his family because they were descendants of Lizzy Borden. So he took MRI's of his entire family and started looking at them. He found one that had the exact brain scan as the psychopaths. At first he thought that a prisoner's scan had gotten mixed in with his families, but was shocked to find out it was his own scan.

He was obviously unsettled by this and asked his family if he had any strange behaviors that would make them think he's a psychopath. They all seemed unsurprised by this finding. His son, on camera, said there had been times he was afraid of him.

He concluded that if a psychopath is raised in a loving home with good parents they could fit into society. If they had a horrible upbringing. Like SA, or PA they would become the more dangerous type of psychopath. I thought it was really interesting. I think being a psychopath starts as a birth defect and then is guided by their environment. JMO



I believe KC told them that in order for her to be pregnant she had to have had sex and she never had. IIRC.
Click to expand...

Interesting. And you are correct, the brains of antisocial people do look different under a brain scan. The part of the brain that controls our emotions/empathy looks different (smaller) and does not "light up" as much. But that does not mean the 100% they were born that way.

A persons brain can be changed by many things. It is developing until we are 26 years old. (although it can change after that too)

For example, they have found that people that suffer from PTSD a particular part of their brain has changed in response to the stress, trauma, and violence that they witnessed.. (this can happen with abuse as well. Very much so) It is why they tend to be more hyper-vigilant. The brain does something called "pruning" (totally fascinating) and up until a certain age, it will respond to your emotions and literally keep or get rid of what it thinks that you need.

So, a person (not speaking of Casey here) that grew up in war ridden country or in a house with chronic domestic violence, their brain will prune what it thinks that person needs or doesn't need. (more like what that person is using most) In this kind of case, the brain makes the area in the brain needed for alertness more pronounced (hyper-viglance) because it thinks we need it to survive.

Same thing with people who meditate professionally or even minimally. Their brains look totally different than those of us that do not. They are lit up like Christmas trees. So much activity!

Our brains are so complex and fascinating, and those in science are learning more and more about them all of the time. Up until pretty recently, it wasn't possible to study a live brain, it had to be done on corpses which can only tell you so much. With technology what it is now, they can study the brain in its active state and they know so much more because of it.

All of the research is interesting, but there is still no empirical research or definitive proof that anyone is "born" a sociopath or a "bad seed." What you said is true, it is sometimes a combination of both biological AND environmental causes, or created solely by environment and socialization. Nothing is absolute. It is the same reason that two siblings can grow up in the same house and in the same environment and be totally different. It's not because they are born that way, it is because each persons unique innateness and personalities will react with their environments in different ways.
 
Spice said:
Thanks for this. While going over the again timeline recently, it struck me that she kept mentioning to people (Jesse) and (Playboi aim chat) on the morning that Caylee died, that she "could not stay at her parents anymore." It was strange. I wondered if it were true due to the fight with Cindy or if she knew what she was about to do (jesse actually interrupted her!) and therefore, knew she could never come back to that house to live again because she wouldn't be able to produce and answer for Caylee.

We know she never did sleep there again for the next 31 days and was possibly setting up the Jeff Hopkins story as a way to get out of coming home ever again.

Very interesting.
Click to expand...
Remember this blast from the past? From Troy Brown's OCSO interview:


5 TB: There was a, it was a Facebook message.
6 EE: Facebook. Facebook.
7 TB: And uhm, and huh, and this was on, uh, this was at 12:40 p.m. on the 24th. And
8 she says uhm, this is referencing Amy moving into the house. And she [FCA] said she [Amy]
9 still has yet to move into the house. "Hell, in the past nine days I haven't even
10 been living at the house. Drama. "I'll fill you in on it later."​

http://www.acandyrose.com/caylee_anthony_transcript_T_Brown072508.htm
 
Steely Dan said:
BBM

The hairbrush incident, IIRC, was that the police asked for a hairbrush Caylee used so they could get DNA evidence. Cindy gave them a brush that only KC used, and then said it was a mistake and gave them the right one.





BBM

I believe there is an email Cindy's brother sent to her. He was angrily rebuking her for believing KC's lies over the years and brings up the pregnancy in particular. I'm not totally sure why CA turned her back on all of the obvious lies KC told, but she definitely did. IIRC, she got mad at George for investigating whether KC was working at a sports bar or not. JMO
Click to expand...

bbm
She got upset with George when he went to investigate the supposed armed robbery at Casey's part time job....Sports Authority(another place she said she worked but never did work there...but she did have a friend who did work there....)
Casey told her parents she was robbed at gun point while working at Sports Authority and George wanted to go over and speak with the Manager about what went on...
IIRC Casey was given money to deposit into some bank account and did not but gave her parents an authentic looking deposit slip...
 
rose222 said:
I remember that bitter-sweet day so clearly. I woke up that morning still feeling frustrated about how dishonest Cindy/George had been on the Larry King Show the night before. When I saw the breaking news on tv I knew, as most who had followed this case, that it was Caylee. I felt such a tremendous sense of relief that day. What a miracle that Caylee was found. I was so grateful. I still am.

And Casey's reactions to the news that day...ah....it's still satisfying to watch her act like a crazy caged animal.
Click to expand...

I too remember that day
I watched the local breaking news about skeletal remains of a small child found close to the Anthony home
It Rained that day... the sun did not shine that day..it was dark, grey skies.
 
stillwatersc said:
The ability of a sociopath to lie convincingly is astonishing, almost hypnotic. I have seen this is action. They never back down, even when caught red handed. A sociopath can almost convince someone that he didn't see what he saw.
Click to expand...

That describes to a T a very close family member of mine...who again today created a boat load of drama in the family.
This person is elderly but she still can disrupt the family with her lies/stories/deflecting blame etc..
 
Justiceseeker35 said:
I find it real sad that one of the things she was looking forward to the most after getting out of prison was going to target and buying stuff. Thank you for visiting the site Atthelake.
Click to expand...

BBM - Yeah, with other people's money.
 
Spice said:
I totally disagree.

The level of Cindy's ability to live in denial is astounding. And I mean astounding. This is the same woman, a nurse, that lived with her daughter that was seven months pregnant, and was able to say with a straight face that Casey was a virgin and was just bloated.

Why? Because Casey said so.

Just like she said that she was graduating from high school, that Ricardo was the father, that Caylee's father died in a car accident, that she had a job, that she was at work, that she had a nanny named Zanny, that she was in Jacksonville with Jeff Hopkins at his mothers wedding, that she was in Orlando and Zanny was in the hospital, that Caylee was kidnapped. The list goes on and on and Cindy let herself believe all of it. Year after year after year.

It is the reason why she could convince herself that the smell of death in Casey's car was rotting pizza. "It's the pizza right George?" It's the reason that she could clean the car, Caylee's doll, and Casey's pants and go back to work as her co-workers sat stunned.

This behavior from Cindy is far from new, especially when it concerned Casey.

Is it dysfunctional? Yes. Is it borderline insane? Yes. But did she know from day one? No. I have never believed that.


In my opinion, that 911 call was as real as it gets. That nagging feeling that prompted her to write that myspace PLEA to Casey had come to fruition and slapped her right in the face. All of that anxiety, fear, hope to see Caylee and confusion as to where she could be exploded in her face in a split second as her worst nightmare had come true.

Cindy did not start telling the truth once a supposed alibi was in place. Not at all. That is exactly when she started lying and never stopped. Because true to her character when it came to Casey, she was making herself believe it.
Click to expand...
I do understand everyone who marvels at Cindy's mind-boggling level of apparent denial.

:cool: However, count me among those who don't buy it for a second:

... that Cindy wasn't covering for FCA all along
... that Cindy really believed FCA was working, while the whole time FCA was stealing her blind.
... that Cindy honestly believed that Casey was "bloated" or had a "tumor"
... that Cindy ever for one second bought FCA's stories about Zanny babysitting Caylee for free and even purchasing Caylee her own car seat, wardrobe, toys, etc.
... that Cindy really believed the smell of her missing granddaughter's decomposing body was from "rotting pizza."
... that Cindy ever believed Caylee was alive after July 15.
... that Cindy swallowed the "digging up bamboo" explanation about FCA borrowing the neighbor's shovel.
... that Cindy really thought FCA was "an excellent mother" deserving of the "mother of the year" award.

I could go on.

Naw. Not everyone is as cynical as me, but I simply can't attribute that stuff to denial; not from this lady who was seeking custody of her granddaughter and told FCA's friends her daughter was a liar, a thief, and a sociopath. JMO
 
Desdemona said:
I do understand everyone who marvels at Cindy's mind-boggling level of apparent denial.

:cool: However, count me among those who don't buy it for a second:

... that Cindy wasn't covering for FCA all along
... that Cindy really believed FCA was working, while the whole time FCA was stealing her blind.
... that Cindy honestly believed that Casey was "bloated" or had a "tumor"
... that Cindy ever for one second bought FCA's stories about Zanny babysitting Caylee for free and even purchasing Caylee her own car seat, wardrobe, toys, etc.
... that Cindy really believed the smell of her missing granddaughter's decomposing body was from "rotting pizza."
... that Cindy ever believed Caylee was alive after July 15.
... that Cindy swallowed the "digging up bamboo" explanation about FCA borrowing the neighbor's shovel.
... that Cindy really thought FCA was "an excellent mother" deserving of the "mother of the year" award.

I could go on.

Naw. Not everyone is as cynical as me, but I simply can't attribute that stuff to denial; not from this lady who was seeking custody of her granddaughter and told FCA's friends her daughter was a liar, a thief, and a sociopath. JMO
Click to expand...
Oh no! I totally agree. She was covering up, obstructing, and lying constantly for Casey, before (work etc) and after the "dead body in the damn car" 911 call. I just don't believe that before July 16th, Cindy knew anything about Caylee's whereabouts. I do think she was desperate to know, but maybe even a little afraid to find out.

Another poster had mentioned that she thought that Cindy "knew from day one", I don't believe that at all. I think deep deep down in that abyss of denial and magical thinking that is her brain, she knew that something was very very wrong, hence the Myspace plea. I think she was desperate and knew that her daughter was capable of horrible things. She just would never admit it to herself or others, except under some rare and unguarded moments.

It takes a great amount of denial and lying to oneself not to go find Casey sooner than the 16th. If my situation were like Casey's, my mother would have tracked me down like an animal if I did anything like this. Within days.
 
I had never heard of the supposed robbed at gunpoint story Casey told her dad. What else have I been missing ?? I do remember something about Tony's neighbors being robbed (apt broken into) while Casey was living with Tony. Does that ring a bell ?
 
Jovi Girl said:
I had never heard of the supposed robbed at gunpoint story Casey told her dad. What else have I been missing ?? I do remember something about Tony's neighbors being robbed (apt broken into) while Casey was living with Tony. Does that ring a bell ?
Click to expand...

I believe you will find that Sports Authority info in one of Georges LE or FBI interviews.
Also,iirc, it was boyfriend Tony's apartment that was broken into while he was in NY and Casey could not stay/sleep/live in his apartment while he was gone.
But she did keep his Jeep to drive even though he thought she was just going to return it to his apartment and leave it there
 
I can't believe it's been 4 years. I cried then and I cry now. What a beautiful little girl you were, Caylee Marie.
oxoxoxox
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

DNASolves

Who is Escambia County John Doe (1989)?

Members online

... and 216 more.
Total: 4,066 (members: 217, guests: 3,849)

Online statistics

Members online
217
Guests online
3,849
Total visitors
4,066
Totals may include hidden visitors.

Forum statistics

Threads
592,146
Messages
17,964,119
Members
228,702
Latest member
cevans
Back
Top