Connecticut school district on lockdown after shooting report at a Newtown elemen #5

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OT: Looks like we have WSers here from outside America, thank you for coming and showing your support. Hope you all are doing well :)
 
flipflop said:
I can understand why you are upset. I didn't want to bring up the gun issue at all, but we have always had a rule that we do not use guns, we do not bring in toy guns and we do not use pretend guns...the rule is NO GUNS ALLOWED AT SCHOOL. Many of my students have dad's that have hunting rifles as they go deer hunting. I cannot tell them that guns are bad, as their dads have them, as do police officers.
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That is our rule at my school, too.

We don't say guns are bad, we just tell the children that we may not play "guns" at school. We do see alot of it, though because we are in a big area for both hunting and handgun ownership so the kids (even my 3-year-olds) are very familiar with guns.

Lemme tell you, those boys (I haven't ever had a girl do this) will make a gun out of Legos, PlayDoh, a paintbrush, etc, and point them at each other making "pow" sounds all day long if we didn't redirect them. It's exhausting.
 
I don't know if this is the place to post, but I have a question: I do have a question or curiosity about all this..For those that have been watching the news, we have all heard there is a big issue on Mental illness!! I am curious is it really a mental illness that drives people to do this? If so why the big spurt in the past 10yrs. I know mental illness has been around for a long time, but in the 80's and 90's there were no mass shootings anywhere, it was basically unheard of, yea you had one here and there (maybe) but I feel these days if someone does something, automatically it's a mental illness. To me people use it as an excuse way to much. If you did something wrong 15 yrs ago, you were just BAD! Now lawyers use it as a defense when clearly there is nothing wrong with some (not all) of the people who commit crimes. I think it has more to do with Diciplining, parents not and not being able to..Please don't think I take mental issues lightly because I don't but people are perscribes so many different medications for ANYTHING, oh he shot someone he must be crazy, he must have mental issues. I get for some but not for everyone, some people are just evil. When growing up If I got into trouble I would get the paddle at school, then when I got home, when I spent the night with friends, if I did something wrong not only did they have permission by my parents to discipline me, but then I got it when I got home for disrespecting someone else. Was I beat? No Abused, NO? I got disciplined taught right from wrong, I was taught the ins and out of the world. Now kids know they can get away with anything, because if they get spanked, they know they can call the police, or CPS..So I am trying to figure out where it all went wrong? It can soley be mental issues, to me that's a slap in the face for people that really have mental issues..Most people are just evil bad people who don't care..that's the world we live in
 
Finally, the most offensive part of attributing murders to video games is that it sounds like a hollow excuse to the family of the victims. It is insensitive to tell the survivors that a child’s game is responsible for the death of their loved ones.

It is time we stop using violent video games as a scapegoat for serious problems that can result in criminal activities. We should address the problem of xenophobia, mental health issues, gun laws, and religious fundamentalism, which have more significant contributions to Breivik’s ideology, motivations and actions.
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http://www.policymic.com/articles/7209/call-of-duty-and-mass-murders-are-video-games-too-violent
 
daisy.faithfull said:
I agree, however it seems like he was becoming more and more unmanageable to the point where Nancy was no longer having visitors over. Intellectual abilities aside, if her son was increasingly difficult and that isolated, I can't see him being able to handle the emotional challenges of going to school.
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I haven't read that he was becoming "unmanageable" and that's why NL was reluctant to have visitors over. According to the landscaper, AL just didn't like to come out or interact with people. According to the students who knew him, he didn't like to make eye contact or talk. And NL said that he was becoming more "unreachable" -- to me that doesn't sound like he was unmanageable as in violent or destructive (in fact people have said the opposite about him) -but that he was not emotionally connecting, and was isolating himself.
 
TDEAN30 said:
I don't know if this is the place to post, but I have a question: I do have a question or curiosity about all this..For those that have been watching the news, we have all heard there is a big issue on Mental illness!! I am curious is it really a mental illness that drives people to do this? If so why the big spurt in the past 10yrs. I know mental illness has been around for a long time, but in the 80's and 90's there were no mass shootings anywhere, it was basically unheard of, yea you had one here and there (maybe) but I feel these days if someone does something, automatically it's a mental illness. To me people use it as an excuse way to much. If you did something wrong 15 yrs ago, you were just BAD! Now lawyers use it as a defense when clearly there is nothing wrong with some (not all) of the people who commit crimes. I think it has more to do with Diciplining, parents not and not being able to..Please don't think I take mental issues lightly because I don't but people are perscribes so many different medications for ANYTHING, oh he shot someone he must be crazy, he must have mental issues. I get for some but not for everyone, some people are just evil. When growing up If I got into trouble I would get the paddle at school, then when I got home, when I spent the night with friends, if I did something wrong not only did they have permission by my parents to discipline me, but then I got it when I got home for disrespecting someone else. Was I beat? No Abused, NO? I got disciplined taught right from wrong, I was taught the ins and out of the world. Now kids know they can get away with anything, because if they get spanked, they know they can call the police, or CPS..So I am trying to figure out where it all went wrong? It can soley be mental issues, to me that's a slap in the face for people that really have mental issues..Most people are just evil bad people who don't care..that's the world we live in
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http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/07/mass-shootings-map?page=2

Not true at all.

And please, let's not use the argument that people can't discipline their children. You are absolutely allowed to discipline your children. Just in many places, you aren't allowed to physically assault them. There is a difference.

Not to mention that the vast majority (and by vast majority I mean at least 90%) of children today are still "spanked"/assaulted by their parents as a form of "discipline".
 
Also, there were Kindergarteners and first graders killed. Little Noah Pozner was a Kindergartener, according to his aunt who I am acquainted with through groups on Facebook.
 
Dear Ws-ers and guests:

Favor.

While we pray for all the victims.

Please remember to say a prayer also for the first responders. They need prayers, of healing and peace.
Like so many people in the world- when (only) 3 people were taken to the hospital - there were dozens of emt's on the scene who could do nothing...nothing...nothing that they were trained to do- save lives and transport. The same emt's, Po etc- living with inconceivable images seared into their hearts and souls.
The same emt's were to remains on the site of the massacre from the time they arrived until the parents were notified ( in case any of those needed aid).
The first responders are heart broken, as we all are- but what they saw- no one on god's green earth should have to see.
Unfortunately- though, none of them are able to go back to work- until they themselves go through psych channels with people who have never ever seen such carnage as they have. ( this makes sense except right now the only thing that might help them get through is to get back to work) Please say a prayer for their healing ( if that is possible ) for their ability find some solace and peace, to get ( cleared )back to work, their families, and their classrooms too.
Can you imagine it being your job to save lives- all day and night and going to to a scene like that -to save lives and failing to find pulses of 20 babies + adults?
:-( I cannot fathom this. :-(

Thank you for your prayers in behalf of my student. - one of the first responders. and of course all the prayers for us all here in CT.
 
please do not MAKE ASSUMPTIONS on mental illnesses related to this case PP b/c autism is NOT a mental illness. what he had was a developmental disorder. You cannot just "beat" or discipline a person with physical force that has a developmental disorder.

PP, you have me :furious:

@TDEAN
 
iSleuth said:
Dear Ws-ers and guests:

Favor.

While we pray for all the victims.

Please remember to say a prayer also for the first responders. They need prayers, of healing and peace.
Like so many people in the world- when (only) 3 people were taken to the hospital - there were dozens of emt's on the scene who could do nothing...nothing...nothing that they were trained to do- save lives and transport. The same emt's, Po etc- living with inconceivable images seared into their hearts and souls.
The same emt's were to remains on the site of the massacre from the time they arrived until the parents were notified ( in case any of those needed aid).
The first responders are heart broken, as we all are- but what they saw- no one on god's green earth should have to see.
Unfortunately- though, none of them are able to go back to work- until they themselves go through psych channels with people who have never ever seen such carnage as they have. ( this makes sense except right now the only thing that might help them get through is to get back to work) Please say a prayer for their healing ( if that is possible ) for their ability find some solace and peace, to get ( cleared )back to work, their families, and their classrooms too.
Can you imagine it being your job to save lives- all day and night and going to to a scene like that -to save lives and failing to find pulses of 20 babies + adults?
:-( I cannot fathom this. :-(

Thank you for your prayers in behalf of my student. - one of the first responders. and of course all the prayers for us all here in CT.
Click to expand...


you are so right. I have somewhat played that out in my head and wondered (I guess morbidly) what the scene did look like. when they describe the womans arms wrapped around a child trying to shield them. having to remove each person from the other. I cannot even comprehend what they all had to see and look at while processing the scene which took hours and hours
 
From the NG transcripts (http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1212/17/ng.01.html)

He was a student that was difficult to reach in the first place. He would withdraw into his own little world, have little episodes of these things where he could not speak or talk or communicate even what he was feeling, where she would respond to this -- she would be called to the school and he`d have to be cared for.

ANything could have been going on in his head. He could have had violent ideas and no one would have known. Or he could have felt persecuted, or been abused, or heard voices... for someone who doesn't share what he's feeling or thinking with anyone, how could you know? It's scary.

(as an aside: it's hard to get info from NG interviews because she interrupts everyone halfway through their answers and half the time you never know what valuable information they could have given. Atrocious!)
 
There have been mass murders since the 60's. I am sure there were probably ones before then but I am not familiar with them. In the 80's it was said postal workers were the ones committing the mass murders....do you remember the phrase "going postal"?

People killing people is nothing new. IMO it has nothing to do with how a child isn't disciplined or good vs. evil. I believe it is something wrong in their brain. Why do some people kill with no remorse and others are afraid to kill a bug? To me, it has to be a different make-up in the brain, perhaps they were born that way, I don't know. IMO sane people do not go around killing slews of people.



TDEAN30 said:
I don't know if this is the place to post, but I have a question: I do have a question or curiosity about all this..For those that have been watching the news, we have all heard there is a big issue on Mental illness!! I am curious is it really a mental illness that drives people to do this? If so why the big spurt in the past 10yrs. I know mental illness has been around for a long time, but in the 80's and 90's there were no mass shootings anywhere, it was basically unheard of, yea you had one here and there (maybe) but I feel these days if someone does something, automatically it's a mental illness. To me people use it as an excuse way to much. If you did something wrong 15 yrs ago, you were just BAD! Now lawyers use it as a defense when clearly there is nothing wrong with some (not all) of the people who commit crimes. I think it has more to do with Diciplining, parents not and not being able to..Please don't think I take mental issues lightly because I don't but people are perscribes so many different medications for ANYTHING, oh he shot someone he must be crazy, he must have mental issues. I get for some but not for everyone, some people are just evil. When growing up If I got into trouble I would get the paddle at school, then when I got home, when I spent the night with friends, if I did something wrong not only did they have permission by my parents to discipline me, but then I got it when I got home for disrespecting someone else. Was I beat? No Abused, NO? I got disciplined taught right from wrong, I was taught the ins and out of the world. Now kids know they can get away with anything, because if they get spanked, they know they can call the police, or CPS..So I am trying to figure out where it all went wrong? It can soley be mental issues, to me that's a slap in the face for people that really have mental issues..Most people are just evil bad people who don't care..that's the world we live in
Click to expand...
 
FrayedKnot said:
That is our rule at my school, too.

We don't say guns are bad, we just tell the children that we may not play "guns" at school. We do see alot of it, though because we are in a big area for both hunting and handgun ownership so the kids (even my 3-year-olds) are very familiar with guns.

Lemme tell you, those boys (I haven't ever had a girl do this) will make a gun out of Legos, PlayDoh, a paintbrush, etc, and point them at each other making "pow" sounds all day long if we didn't redirect them. It's exhausting.
Click to expand...

Just reading your post made me realize how some silly games that were so innocent back in my days growing up have suddenly become taboo.

My brother had toy soldiers, play guns, water guns. He and his buddies would play cops and robbers. Playing pretend shooting at each other.

What happened? These kids didn't grow up violent nor did they ever murder anyone.

There is much more going on in today's society. I wish I had the answers.
 
ami said:
I haven't read that he was becoming "unmanageable" and that's why NL was reluctant to have visitors over. According to the landscaper, AL just didn't like to come out or interact with people. According to the students who knew him, he didn't like to make eye contact or talk. And NL said that he was becoming more "unreachable" -- to me that doesn't sound like he was unmanageable as in violent or destructive (in fact people have said the opposite about him) -but that he was not emotionally connecting, and was isolating himself.
Click to expand...

It has been indicated that in recent years his behavior had become increasingly disturbing. I guess unmanageable was the wrong word.

I'm not attacking Nancy, more than anything I'm wondering about the various reports were getting about exactly what was going on in the home since LE hasn't told us and due to the poor reporting in this case I'm just picking apart everything the media is telling us.
 
I wonder if absence seizures were ruled out.
 
daisy.faithfull said:
It has been indicated that in recent years his behavior had become increasingly disturbing. I guess unmanageable was the wrong word.

I'm not attacking Nancy, more than anything I'm wondering about the various reports were getting about exactly what was going on in the home since LE hasn't told us and due to the poor reporting in this case I'm just picking apart everything the media is telling us.
Click to expand...

I'm wondering that, too. I mean clearly there was something incredibly serious going on and if there were NO signs at all I'd be completely shocked. So you're right.. it's possible that people (either NL herself, or the people she spoke with who later reported it) were understating the level of disturbance by saying his behavior was "deteriorating" or that he was becoming "unreachable" Who knows what became "normal" to them, and what level something would have to reach before NL said that whatever their sad "normal" was had deteriorated.
 
iSleuth said:
Dear Ws-ers and guests:

Favor.

While we pray for all the victims.

Please remember to say a prayer also for the first responders. They need prayers, of healing and peace.
Like so many people in the world- when (only) 3 people were taken to the hospital - there were dozens of emt's on the scene who could do nothing...nothing...nothing that they were trained to do- save lives and transport. The same emt's, Po etc- living with inconceivable images seared into their hearts and souls.
The same emt's were to remains on the site of the massacre from the time they arrived until the parents were notified ( in case any of those needed aid).
The first responders are heart broken, as we all are- but what they saw- no one on god's green earth should have to see.
Unfortunately- though, none of them are able to go back to work- until they themselves go through psych channels with people who have never ever seen such carnage as they have. ( this makes sense except right now the only thing that might help them get through is to get back to work) Please say a prayer for their healing ( if that is possible ) for their ability find some solace and peace, to get ( cleared )back to work, their families, and their classrooms too.
Can you imagine it being your job to save lives- all day and night and going to to a scene like that -to save lives and failing to find pulses of 20 babies + adults?
:-( I cannot fathom this. :-(

Thank you for your prayers in behalf of my student. - one of the first responders. and of course all the prayers for us all here in CT.
Click to expand...

This is a photo that was taken at the memorial service for all the victims. I can't imagine their pain in wanting to save the children but couldn't. No fault of their own of course but the unimaginable pain and guilt they must feel. God Bless them.

598614_10151194112001099_993750383_n.jpg


https://www.facebook.com/star106
 
~n/t~ said:
http://www.policymic.com/articles/7209/call-of-duty-and-mass-murders-are-video-games-too-violent
Click to expand...

These violent games are not and should not be "child's games." They should not be the "babysitter" for troubled, angry youth or persons with mental disorders. If, night after night, a troubled mind finds its "glory", its sense of recognition, its sense of power...in a fantasy world where killing makes you a winner...these games are teaching and reinforcing violence as the ultimate accomplishment.

Someone like Adam must have had few experiences that made him feel like the success his Dad and his brother were...but we may well find out that these fantasy games provided that "rush."

The glorification of violence in our society...in games, television, and movies...absolutely needs to be addressed in our national conversation. When the imaginary tough guy shoots up the place, corner his enemies, and destroys..that's the end of it, right. Ding! Ding! Ding! You are a WINNER! Are our children shown any AFTERMATH to violence? No, these "enemies" have no grieving parents, no heart wrenching funerals. We teach destruction , not empathy. We applaud power, not compassion.

By all means, lets talk about guns. But lets also talk about the glorification of violence so pervasive today. Hollywood, the game creators, etc. should not get to just stand and shake their heads like its all about something else.BOTH sides of pur political spectrum needs to confront their generous donors. It is truly morally appalling not to look at the ENTIRE picture.

Unfortunately, some of our vulnerable children become, to a great extent, what our culture tells them is admired. They may treat women like the guys on Jersey Shore; they may talk trash to strangers like the smart-mouthed teenagers on sit-coms; they may pick up profanity from their "music"; and they may learn to be numb to violence by its pervasiveness. You learn a language by videos that immerse you; you can certainly learn an apathy to violence, death, destruction too.

Not every child , no. But IMO the most outcast are the most vulnerable. Because they are lonely and alone. And, the violent world of these games become their world, their special place where they are powerful and in charge. Why are we surprised when their fantasy world...that fantasy place where they feel GOOD...spills over into reality...and becomes OUR nightmare?
 
Hero’s sis haunted by this photo

Victoria Soto’s heroics were matched by her teacher’s aide, Anne Marie Murphy, 52.

In a statement put out yesterday, the parents of 6-year-old Dylan Hockley told how his body was found in Murphy’s arms.

“We take great comfort in knowing that Dylan was not alone when he died, but was wrapped in the arms of his amazing aide, Anne Marie Murphy,” said Ian and Nicole Hockley.

Vicki, they said, “was warm and funny, and Dylan loved her dearly.”

:frown::frown::frown:

Just when I thought my heart couldn't break anymore.
 
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