The state Rests in The State v. Jodi Arias: break in trial until 28 January 2013 #11

[LotusPawprint]

Regarding Det. Flores sitting at the prosecution table.
This is the third trial in Maricopa County Superior Courthouse I have watched this year, in all three cases the case agent sat at the prosecution table.
Detective Patricia Martinez was the case agent in Tammi Smith and Elizabeth Johnson's trials and sat right next to the prosecutors in both trials.
So this seems standard, in Maricopa County, at least.

This is so unimportant but I grew to admire her and she was embedded in my mind during those two trials so forgive me, the case agent was Patricia Ramirez. She was cool, calm, and collected. These AZ detectives are so good!

 

[EldonJackson]

On one of the shows the other night, one of the lawyers was arguing that the State spent too much time focusing on Jodi's changing stories and should have instead hammered on the elements of the crime (premeditation and intent). He likened it to Casey's case and said that it just confused the jury to put on so much evidence of the lies.

I see his point, but disagree. Since Jodi is presumably going to be testifying for her self defense claim, she'll be giving a new account of what happened. (Her 4th version?). It's extremely important for the State to convince the jury that Jodi has absolutely no credibility and should not be believed. The only way to do that is by introducing all of the evidence of her previous lies about what happened to Travis. It's important to show that Jodi will say whatever she thinks will help her at any given moment.

Think about it -- no matter what Jodi says now, no one is going to take it as the truth. It reminds me of Joran Van der Sloot ...he gave so many different accounts of his time with Natalee Holloway that even when he later implicated himself on hidden camera, no one believed him still.

Jodi and Joran, a perfect couple.

 

[spcagrl]

After snooping here for some time, I've finally decided to join in on the convo, so 1st time post & thanks to everyone for all the thoughtful, interesting & at times, entertaining posts & discussions.

Like many here, I've followed trials for a long time....Scott Peterson, CA, etc. & have no one in my real life to discuss this obsession (interest, hobby? LOL) So I'm thankful for this forum.

A few thoughts to share:

Did Jodi really work at Casa Ramos? I heard something about a family member (her dad?) showing pay stubs to LE, but nothing more. Was that true & did LE ever interview anyone from the restaurant? Were there ANY KNIVES MISSING??? Considering the extent of Travis' fatal wound to the throat, it HAD to be inflicted by a large knife, a nice, sharp butcher knife. Of course, I'm guessing Jodi snatched one from Casa Margaritaville Ramos. We know where she got the gun.....talk about prepared!

I'm intrigued by the idea someone had (sorry, it was too far back & i now forget who) that the dye job & white car may have been Jodi's attempt to be mistaken for Mimi & possibly frame her for the murder. I've also thought that perhaps Jodi figured Mimi was there with Travis (asleep) & she intended to kill them both.

It's clear to me that Jodi planned this whole sordid adventure, possibly after Travis told her in May that it was OVER...for good. Travis never intended to visit Jodi, the trip she claims he cancelled. I think he was finally coming to his senses about Jodi or his friends had gotten through to him. He'd had enough after the fb hacking, the endless phone calls, her unrelenting obsession, etc, etc & realized it was time to put his foot down for good. He probably felt safe from whatever consequences might occur since she was a good distance away. He never expected her to show up again in Mesa let alone with dyed hair, a rental car, a gun & a butcher knife!

I'm with those who think that Travis never invited her, nor did he have any inkling Jodi was coming. She just showed up, like obsessed, rejected sociopaths/psychopaths do. They may or may not have had sex, but once he was wet, naked & vulnerable in the shower, she ambushed him. Stabbed him first in that weird sitting position in the shower stall. As for dragging the body....small nurses can move large patients, EMT's & paramedics do it all the time...there are methods & someone else pointed out the floor was slippery from blood & water..plus she had the adrenaline...psycho adrenaline (it's more powerful!) She also could have used the sheets to drag his body.

Not sure why she placed him in the shower...convenience? Wasn't there a cup found with the body? Did she perform some sort of ritual baptism? He was there at her baptism, even baptized her? Was she responding in kind? Hmmm, nothing "kind" about it, but Mormons are known to baptize the dead. At any rate, I doubt she "cleaned" him off, more likely she was running the shower over her hands/arms to rinse herself off & splashing water all over him inadvertently.

Sorry this is so long, but it's my first post & I've many thoughts brewing! Just one more thing...I have to mention my thoughts about Juan Martinez. Unlike so many others, I'm not terribly impressed. If I were a jury member, I can assure you that I'd be turned off by his abrasiveness with the witnesses....his own witnesses! It may be his style, but as a jury member, I wouldn't care & instead, find it offensive. I'm a little worried about that.

Thank you for indulging me & thanks again to everyone for all your great posts, links, info, etc.

This a great first post! Thank you!

With regard to the pay stubs produced by JA father.......well that is more tha George or Cindy could ever produce on behalf of thier darling Casey!
I agree Travis did not know she was coming AT ALL.
But, I do think Juan Martinez is doing a very good job, I only hope he is not finished for real.

This case is really getting to me, I check in here forty times a day and just cannot wait to see this trial resume. I went driving to meet my sister for breakfast this morning and "Hotel California" came on the radio.....that eerie music and even the lyrics were so appropriate to this case, it was creepy!

 

[TigerBalm]

This is so unimportant but I grew to admire her and she was embedded in my mind during those two trials so forgive me, the case agent was Patricia Ramirez. She was cool, calm, and collected. These AZ detectives are so good!

You are so correct, thanks for the correction. She was great, wasn't she!!

 

[PASA]

I wonder. I would just love that because I like to know ALL the details of the "HOW". When Flores mentioned, and someone on this board mentioned she drove over the Hoover Dam I thought it extraordinarily likely all those items went there. But burning seems likely too---or both even. Burning clothes/carmats/whatever the weapons were wrapped in (towel, etc.) and weapons over the dam.

BBM

I am leaning towards both. If she threw the gun in the fire it would not turn to ash and could later be identified. So that had to be disposed of in another way.

There are a number of remote dirt roads to turn off of between here and Kingman where no one would see a thing.
MOO IMHO, etc.

 

[LambChop]

i don't think it can be emphasized enough that she's an accomplished pathological liar. so her THIRD story about him being an abuser and her fearing for her life is just as preposterous as her other 2.

who will the defense call to say that travis was ever violent with a girl? is there someone out there who's going to say that? anyone other than their hired experts?
if the jury doesn't buy this guy was abusive, they don't buy self defense----which is completely ludicrous to me anyway considered he was wet, naked, unarmed and couldn't have done anything to justify what he got.

Self defense should have been her first story, not the last and not change right before trial. jmo

 

[minor4th]

IMO even if on juror believes this began in self defense (which I do not) it didn't end in self defense. It was premeditated murder filled with rage!
The slashed tires should have been a HUGE red flag that this gal will commit criminal acts, is not in her right mind and capable of harming another. I wonder if there is any other history that hasn't been discovered. Creepy!

Take this for whatever its worth but I read a comment on another site from someone who claimed to date an ex of Jodi's. she said that Jodi broke into that guys house after they broke up and engaged in other stalker behaviors. I might be able to find the comment again.

 

[kscornfed]

Self defense should have been her first story, not the last and not change right before trial. jmo

i so agree with you. if she'd started out with self-defense, i think she'd be in a much better position right now.

it helps a lot that these psychopaths aren't as bright as they think they are!

 

[LotusPawprint]

You are so correct, thanks for the correction. She was great, wasn't she!!

She was! Unfortunately both women got off way too easy IMO and I wish Texas would take some kind of action against EJ but Det. Ramirez was excellent. I've been impressed with most of the professionals in the Arizona trials I've followed - it's great to see!

 

[minor4th]

I know I have heard this, but... did anyone testify that she was wearing long sleeves? Ryan? or Lisa (? I think that is her name, the last one to testify) I know Ryan testified about her 6 pack ( :floorlaugh: ), and a cut on her hand, but I don't remember anything about her arms.

This was a friend of Ryan's who said this on 48 Hours.

 

[LambChop]

After snooping here for some time, I've finally decided to join in on the convo, so 1st time post & thanks to everyone for all the thoughtful, interesting & at times, entertaining posts & discussions.

Like many here, I've followed trials for a long time....Scott Peterson, CA, etc. & have no one in my real life to discuss this obsession (interest, hobby? LOL) So I'm thankful for this forum.

A few thoughts to share:

Did Jodi really work at Casa Ramos? I heard something about a family member (her dad?) showing pay stubs to LE, but nothing more. Was that true & did LE ever interview anyone from the restaurant? Were there ANY KNIVES MISSING??? Considering the extent of Travis' fatal wound to the throat, it HAD to be inflicted by a large knife, a nice, sharp butcher knife. Of course, I'm guessing Jodi snatched one from Casa Margaritaville Ramos. We know where she got the gun.....talk about prepared!

I'm intrigued by the idea someone had (sorry, it was too far back & i now forget who) that the dye job & white car may have been Jodi's attempt to be mistaken for Mimi & possibly frame her for the murder. I've also thought that perhaps Jodi figured Mimi was there with Travis (asleep) & she intended to kill them both.

It's clear to me that Jodi planned this whole sordid adventure, possibly after Travis told her in May that it was OVER...for good. Travis never intended to visit Jodi, the trip she claims he cancelled. I think he was finally coming to his senses about Jodi or his friends had gotten through to him. He'd had enough after the fb hacking, the endless phone calls, her unrelenting obsession, etc, etc & realized it was time to put his foot down for good. He probably felt safe from whatever consequences might occur since she was a good distance away. He never expected her to show up again in Mesa let alone with dyed hair, a rental car, a gun & a butcher knife!

I'm with those who think that Travis never invited her, nor did he have any inkling Jodi was coming. She just showed up, like obsessed, rejected sociopaths/psychopaths do. They may or may not have had sex, but once he was wet, naked & vulnerable in the shower, she ambushed him. Stabbed him first in that weird sitting position in the shower stall. As for dragging the body....small nurses can move large patients, EMT's & paramedics do it all the time...there are methods & someone else pointed out the floor was slippery from blood & water..plus she had the adrenaline...psycho adrenaline (it's more powerful!) She also could have used the sheets to drag his body.

Not sure why she placed him in the shower...convenience? Wasn't there a cup found with the body? Did she perform some sort of ritual baptism? He was there at her baptism, even baptized her? Was she responding in kind? Hmmm, nothing "kind" about it, but Mormons are known to baptize the dead. At any rate, I doubt she "cleaned" him off, more likely she was running the shower over her hands/arms to rinse herself off & splashing water all over him inadvertently.

Sorry this is so long, but it's my first post & I've many thoughts brewing! Just one more thing...I have to mention my thoughts about Juan Martinez. Unlike so many others, I'm not terribly impressed. If I were a jury member, I can assure you that I'd be turned off by his abrasiveness with the witnesses....his own witnesses! It may be his style, but as a jury member, I wouldn't care & instead, find it offensive. I'm a little worried about that.

Thank you for indulging me & thanks again to everyone for all your great posts, links, info, etc.

I think it could have been very easy to take a large knife, heavy steak knife possibly from the restaurant without them knowing it. I'm sure people steal things off the table all the time, they would have never thought she took it. I have a set of steak knives given to me as a gift from a restaurant and they are very sharp and could easily inflict a 5 inch deep wound. And they were a gift, in a gift box. lol jmo

 

[popsicle]

Self defense should have been her first story, not the last and not change right before trial. jmo

I am still floored at how she managed to get out of the bathroom and bedroom without tons of bloody evidence everywhere. Even if I planned out a crime I would have to write out the steps and be well prepared because you just never know what will end up going down. As bloody as that crime scene was, she left very little evidence in the way of blood evidence outside the actual scene. Can anyone explain to me how she might have done that? Everything she needed had to have been within arm reach of the bathroom door because there are no bloody foot prints going across the bedroom or thru the closet.

 

[Madeleine74]

Since she was hacking into his emails, she knew he was going to Cancun the next day with another female. IMO, she brought the knife with her just like she brought the gun because she was going to kill him if he didn't cancel his Cancun vacation.

She killed him on June 4th. His Cancun trip was due to start on June 10th, 6 days later.

I believe if had he suddenly announced to her that he wanted to take HER on this free, all-expenses paid Cancun trip she would not have murdered him that day. She is opportunistic if nothing else, and she would have wanted to go on a free trip and with him more than she would have wanted to kill him right then. Now perhaps she would have decided to murder him later, after the trip, but I firmly believe if she had been offered the trip on June 4th while at his house, she would have altered her plans and not killed him, if only to be able to take advantage of a free trip.

 

[LambChop]

Take this for whatever its worth but I read a comment on another site from someone who claimed to date an ex of Jodi's. she said that Jodi broke into that guys house after they broke up and engaged in other stalker behaviors. I might be able to find the comment again.

Wow, now that is interesting. But could he prove it in court. jmo

 

[PASA]

After snooping here for some time, I've finally decided to join in on the convo, so 1st time post & thanks to everyone for all the thoughtful, interesting & at times, entertaining posts & discussions.

Like many here, I've followed trials for a long time....Scott Peterson, CA, etc. & have no one in my real life to discuss this obsession (interest, hobby? LOL) So I'm thankful for this forum.

.

Welcome to Websleuths!

 

[Nana46]

Wow, now that is interesting. But could he prove it in court. jmo

Agree, lol

 

[Madeleine74]

I am still floored at how she managed to get out of the bathroom and bedroom without tons of bloody evidence everywhere. Even if I planned out a crime I would have to write out the steps and be well prepared because you just never know what will end up going down. As bloody as that crime scene was, she left very little evidence in the way of blood evidence outside the actual scene. Can anyone explain to me how she might have done that? Everything she needed had to have been within arm reach of the bathroom door because there are no bloody foot prints going across the bedroom or thru the closet.

It's been done before in other cases. Basically she stripped off all her clothes and socks. Investigators know someone walked through the large puddle of blood near the entrance between the bathroom & bedroom. She never went through the closet, so no blood there. She washed off her feet or placed a towel down to remove the blood from her feet. She easily could have washed the blood off her hands, face or whereever while still in TA's bathroom. Since there was also blood found in the downstairs bathroom she could have washed some of it off there. She wouldn't have to be pristine clean, just not touch anything while her hands/feet were bloody and wash them off enough before touching anything else. Investigators didn't put luminol throughout the entire house to look for blood. They concentrated on his bedroom suite.

 

[Ada]

No no an ex said that her finger was permanently damage after TA broke it..i was not talking about the cuts

I'm sure her defense team will have no problem obtaining the x-rays that confirmed that her finger was broken. :waitasec:

 

[popsicle]

It's been done before in other cases. Basically she stripped off all her clothes and socks. Investigators know someone walked through the large puddle of blood near the entrance between the bathroom & bedroom. She never went through the closet, so no blood there. She washed off her feet or placed a towel down to remove the blood from her feet. She easily could have washed the blood off her hands, face or whereever while still in TA's bathroom. Since there was also blood found in the downstairs bathroom she could have washed some of it off there. She wouldn't have to be pristine clean, just not touch anything while her hands/feet were bloody and wash them off enough before touching anything else. Investigators didn't put luminol throughout the entire house to look for blood. They concentrated on his bedroom suite.

Thanks for your answer. It all makes sense. I wasn't aware they didn't use luminol in other areas of the house.

 

[ILikeToBendPages]

Not sure who brought up the possibility of her driving back home.. I hadnt thought about that... seems possible she could have picked up the rental... swung back by the house.. picked up the gun... dyed her hair and onto TA's house for the ninja party. I'd be willing to bet she looked around as she was leaving her house thinking how smart she was that no one really noticed her...

The house was ninety miles away. She did change her hair color sometime somewhere before the "sex" photos were taken.