CANADA Canada - Audrey Gleave, 73, Ancaster ON, 30 Dec 2010 #6

[LeftCoaster]

...Re a possible setup on PK? Had Audrey told someone that PK was coming over Thursday morning, and the perp knew the only other commitment Audrey had was her Weds coffee meeting. So, PK not expected until Thursday, and the coffee group kept nicely at bay, that would certainly have the perp confident of no interruptions and that PK would be the hapless individual to ultimately find Audrey.

No thoughts on the coat here ... other than Audrey meeting her perp in the garage, but IMO that can't explain the horrific scene that left seasoned LE so shaken when PK didnt' seem to think the garage scene was such a big deal. I've always thought it possible that the "horrific" part was inside the home, so makes the coat a real poser. Unless Audrey was able to grab it around herself to try to protect herself from the onslaught and was able to make a run for the garage ... hoping to set off the car alarm or something. Dunno ... just makes me to sad to visualize anything that her final moments may have consisted of.

rsbm, bbm

This, SB, is EXACTLY in line with what I think happened. A day or two of an intruder or intruders directing Audrey, possibly overseeing or counterfeiting email messages, and possibly Audrey either running for it (hence the coat, but not taking purse or other items one would expect with her), or in the garage because the perp indicated they were going to go somewhere (think RW with JL). Again, the lack of indication as to whether LE found a murder scene in the house seems to me to be one of those only-the-perp-would-know details that is deliberately withheld.:moo::twocents:

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Quoted from LeftCoaster:

<<< IIRC, PK had noted here that the "sexual component" of the murder was instantly evident because of the way Audrey's body was contorted. >>>

But for me that's a BIG problem. This same person also said he "thought Audrey had slipped on some ice". Slipping on a patch of ice is a common Canadian situation! I'm sure we've all done it. But then the contradiction about the sexual component being obvious......well, that confuses me greatly.

How do we WS'ers (who are annoyingly curious) reconcile the two statements?

:twocents:

 

[Sillybilly]

Would some kind soul assist me here please? My computer still refuses to open PDF files so I'm unable to see this attachment.

I simply want to know:
- is it a handwritten recipe?

- is it a copy from a recipe book?

- a copy from a magazine?

- could it be a recipe sent via computer from Audrey?

Many thanks in advance, guys!

Do you have Adobe Reader on your computer? You need it to read pdf files.

- It is not hand-written
- It does not appear to be a copy from a book or magazine
- It appears to be a word-processing document with different fonts and formatting, and yes, can be sent by computer

 

[Sillybilly]

Quoted from LeftCoaster:

<<< IIRC, PK had noted here that the "sexual component" of the murder was instantly evident because of the way Audrey's body was contorted. >>>

But for me that's a BIG problem. This same person also said he "thought Audrey had slipped on some ice". Slipping on a patch of ice is a common Canadian situation! I'm sure we've all done it. But then the contradiction about the sexual component being obvious......well, that confuses me greatly.

How do we WS'ers (who are annoyingly curious) reconcile the two statements?

:twocents:

<bbm>

Yes, seem to be two totally disparate statements, but WE don't have to reconcile them ... the person who made them has to. We just have to bear it in mind as we plod along.

 

[dreamwatcher]

<bbm>

Yes, seem to be two totally disparate statements, but WE don't have to reconcile them ... the person who made them has to. We just have to bear it in mind as we plod along.

Missing bank statements says alot here. In my humble opinion - Money was involved in her murder. One person within her circle of friends, was an Investment broker. His wife was involved in Real Estate.
Not pointing fingers, but Audrey did have a circle of friends with different talents.

JB

 

[LeftCoaster]

Quoted from LeftCoaster:

<<< IIRC, PK had noted here that the "sexual component" of the murder was instantly evident because of the way Audrey's body was contorted. >>>

But for me that's a BIG problem. This same person also said he "thought Audrey had slipped on some ice". Slipping on a patch of ice is a common Canadian situation! I'm sure we've all done it. But then the contradiction about the sexual component being obvious......well, that confuses me greatly.

How do we WS'ers (who are annoyingly curious) reconcile the two statements?

:twocents:

True enough that the disparity is for the source to "reconcile" - and ours to speculate. :twocents: I am going to hazard a guess that Audrey was lying in such a way that her head was toward the garage door - in other words, the person who discovered her would have the initial impression of her having slipped. (Begs the question of how icy the garage floor would have been, but that's another issue.) Upon approaching, and seeing frozen blood (I think that's how it was described), the realization would be that Audrey had not slipped. However, the full extent would not be visible from that first glimpse, and I think panicked tunnel vision would kick in at that point. Absolutely as always MOO, and my way of reconciling not only the disparity referenced, but the one that exists between "not that gruesome" and "horrific."

So much that we are left to wonder about, in the absence of information about time of death, additional sites of violence besides where she was found, and what went on after the morning of the 27th.:maddening:

 

[Woodland]

SB - to answer your questions on the mortgage.

On 20 Nov 1973 Audrey acquired the house as sole owner.

On 23 Feb 1978 Audrey entered into a mortgage with the Hamilton Teacher's Credit Union for $40,500.00. Not specified if it's a first or second mortgage. Duration not specified but was renewable.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

True enough that the disparity is for the source to "reconcile" - and ours to speculate. :twocents: I am going to hazard a guess that Audrey was lying in such a way that her head was toward the garage door - in other words, the person who discovered her would have the initial impression of her having slipped. (Begs the question of how icy the garage floor would have been, but that's another issue.) Upon approaching, and seeing frozen blood (I think that's how it was described), the realization would be that Audrey had not slipped. However, the full extent would not be visible from that first glimpse, and I think panicked tunnel vision would kick in at that point. Absolutely as always MOO, and my way of reconciling not only the disparity referenced, but the one that exists between "not that gruesome" and "horrific."

So much that we are left to wonder about, in the absence of information about time of death, additional sites of violence besides where she was found, and what went on after the morning of the 27th.:maddening:

OK, I understand your points but for ME, this description makes it even worse/more bewildering.

1. A person encounters a woman, on the ground with "eyes wide open" and calls 911.

2. The 911 people ask the person to go back to the body to 'make sure the woman is dead'.

3. THEN, the person notices ripped pants AND a sexual component?

4. OR, did the person notice "eyes wide open", ripped pants, a sexual component AND THEN call 911?

:maddening:

 

[LeftCoaster]

OK, I understand your points but for ME, this description makes it even worse/more bewildering.

1. A person encounters a woman, on the ground with "eyes wide open" and calls 911.

2. The 911 people ask the person to go back to the body to 'make sure the woman is dead'.

3. THEN, the person notices ripped pants AND a sexual component?

4. OR, did the person notice "eyes wide open", ripped pants, a sexual component AND THEN call 911?

:maddening:

It isn't a pretty picture no matter which way we guess it happened. The inconsistencies are indeed bewildering, especially around the discovery of Audrey's body. Whose word do we go with - S/Sgt Hrab, who described it as horrific and the worst he'd seen in at least a decade, or PK, who (depending on where he's commented) variously says it was bad enough to give him flashbacks, but not gruesome or gory; the "sexual component" to the murder was instantly evident, but what he remembers most vividly is Audrey's wide-open eyes? Either there is some major holdback evidence creating this disconnect, or the perp has covered tracks frighteningly well. JMO....

 

[Chorley8]

Missing bank statements says alot here. In my humble opinion - Money was involved in her murder. One person within her circle of friends, was an Investment broker. His wife was involved in Real Estate.
Not pointing fingers, but Audrey did have a circle of friends with different talents.

JB

Remax?

 

[Sillybilly]

Missing bank statements says alot here. In my humble opinion - Money was involved in her murder. One person within her circle of friends, was an Investment broker. His wife was involved in Real Estate.
Not pointing fingers, but Audrey did have a circle of friends with different talents.

JB

Not sure who you are referring to dw, but we certainly did question the very rapid sale of Audrey's home. As previously posted, there was at least one MSM article on Feb 8 wherein neighbours reported the property had already been sold in an estate sale and that lights were on, and this was before LV was officially authorized as the Executor by the "Certificate of Appointment of Trustee" signed by the Registrar on Feb 22.

Mind you, the fact that LV had a copy of the Will appointing her Executor, she was probably able to enter into the Agreement of Purchase and Sale on behalf of the Estate, pending official documentation, and the Agreement could have given permission to the purchasers to access the property even before a closing date.

Really does boggle the brain (ok .. my brain) that a purchaser was found so rapidly for a property where such a horrific crime had occurred.

JMO

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

I wonder how the house was advertised. How did the buyers find the house? Was there enough time to actually list the house?

It boggles my mind as well.

:twocents:

 

[Sillybilly]

I wonder how the house was advertised. How did the buyers find the house? Was there enough time to actually list the house?

It boggles my mind as well.

:twocents:

Probably word of mouth? It's a pretty plum piece of Planet Earth.

 

[Chorley8]

I wonder how the house was advertised. How did the buyers find the house? Was there enough time to actually list the house?

It boggles my mind as well.

:twocents:

Just to say I love this line of enquiry - I do think the quickie sale of the house is likely another major clue - have nothing to add at moment though.

 

[Sillybilly]

Just to say I love this line of enquiry - I do think the quickie sale of the house is likely another major clue - have nothing to add at moment though.

ITA Chorley, but because the purchasers haven't been named in MSM, we aren't allowed to sleuth on them. Sucks, but that's the way it is

 

[Sillybilly]

I wonder how the house was advertised. How did the buyers find the house? Was there enough time to actually list the house?

It boggles my mind as well.

:twocents:

Reminds me of when a bystander punched our former PM Jean Chretien in the face ... the PM's comment on the incident was "well, he see hopportunity ... he go for it". :floorlaugh:

 

[LeftCoaster]

Really does boggle the brain (ok .. my brain) that a purchaser was found so rapidly for a property where such a horrific crime had occurred.

rsbm

You're not alone in brain-boggle on that one, SB. Seems to me that there are some major issues in real estate when a "stigma" is attached to a home or property - the sale of Sonia Varaschin's home, for example, ran into difficulty over its history. As infamy goes, the Indian Trail property would be a humdinger. If, as we've speculated in this thread, there was another place in Audrey's home where she was actually assaulted or killed, there would barely be time for paint to dry before the new occupants came in. Not to mention, and I think it has been mentioned on earlier threads, when nobody has been arrested and a killer is supposedly still at large (granted, DLS was in custody at that point, but barely) - I'd feel quite uneasy about living there. Unless there was some kind of assurance we don't know about (and likely never will).

 

[LeftCoaster]

Apologies for the double post - I went over to the SV discussion and have the link to the article about the controversy that erupted over the sale of her home, a year after the fact. Not mere weeks.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Found Deceased Canada - Sonia Varaschin, 42, Orangeville, 29 Aug 2010 - #2

 

[Sillybilly]

Just thinking ... if it was a private sale, there was absolutely no need to list the property to begin with.

 

[Sillybilly]

Bin thinkin' again .. hate when that happens

PK met Audrey 2006ish or earlier, depending on varied accounts. AG's LWT was in 2007. She didn't know him ALL that well at that time, but what if she did do another LWT later on, after she had become fond of he and AK? (In 2009 she was helping find a good photographer for their upcoming wedding.)

When a Will is done by a lawyer, the original is usually kept in the office vault. When a person does their own LWT, they are well advised to notify their Executor where the original can be found in their home, or possibly even give the original Will to the Executor (they're going to end up with it in the long run anyway). What if there was a more recent Will leaving some serious $$ and that fab new Camaro to PK? The Executor would either have the old Will in their possession, or at least knew that AG kept her Will in the house. Spend a couple of days rummaging around through the clutter, find the new Will, trash it, and by gar ... you've still got all the goodies you were entitled to under the old Will.

(sorry that this post kind of lands out of the blue)