Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #41

[Obsessor]

Thanks for taking the time to explain.
So the joint ownership enabled GBC to skip the will/estate/beneficiary aspect, and hypothetically more quickly access the insurance payout (unless, of course, he happened to get arrested for murder first ... and forgot that he needed the actual death certificate first, not just reports from MSM to prove his wife's death!)

Would GBC have set it up that way, using his accounting knowledge to know the benefits for him of having it jointly owned, or, is this a common thing to do??

 

[alioop]

Owning assets jointly between spouses is common, particularly houses, bank accounts and shares. Life insurances less common ( I think because insurance advisors may not give people the options as to the practical ways of owning it jointly) but my spouse and I own life insurances jointly. It does make assets simpler to deal with on the death of one of the joint owners and does bypass the often lengthy and expensive estate requirements. For example, the cost of a death certificate to collect a joint life insurance is about $40 and usually takes 3 weeks from death to issue whereas the cost of getting probate of a will to claim a solely owned policy is at least $2500 and can take at least 2 months, usually longer. All to collect the same amount of money from the same insurance company.

 

[Obsessor]

Alioop, if he is committed to trial, what is the likely timeframe for that again?

and can you refresh me on what happens if the committal runs out of time?

thanks

 

[AAAA]

Alioop, if he is committed to trial, what is the likely timeframe for that again?

and can you refresh me on what happens if the committal runs out of time?

thanks

And another refresh please Alioop, if you don't mind, will he be there? I understand that he probably won't speak, however I'd like to see how he's looking these days.

Also, he may not need the money, he's making a few numberplates in jail to supplement his income. Sorry all, tongue in cheek!

 

[GEANIE]

And another refresh please Alioop, if you don't mind, will he be there? I understand that he probably won't speak, however I'd like to see how he's looking these days.

Also, he may not need the money, he's making a few numberplates in jail to supplement his income. Sorry all, tongue in cheek!

He could make his own new number plate....<modsnip> and while he's at it a stamp for his fore head,,,,,,,<modsnip> his ego and head is big enough to have that stamped on his head......Hope we get to see the <modsnip> in March.

Also wonder if the clan from 'Scull Manor' show up.
My text messageing friend who lives in Kenmore has not heard of any news of their movements......keep my ear to the ground...:banghead:

 

[GEANIE]

He could make his own new number plate....<mod snip> and while he's at it a stamp for his fore head,,,,,,,<mod snip> his ego and head is big enough to have that stamped on his head......Hope we get to see the <mod snip> in March.

Also wonder if the clan from 'Scull Manor' show up.
My text messageing friend who lives in Kenmore has not heard of any news of their movements......keep my ear to the ground...:banghead:

Just got in from my friend..<modsnip>....I'd bet my last dollar he bailed out on dumping the body and that is why he was at bus stop with head in his hands.
Sticking by your son is one thing.....but dumping the body might have been just to much.....

All MOO:banghead:

 

[alioop]

Alioop, if he is committed to trial, what is the likely timeframe for that again?

and can you refresh me on what happens if the committal runs out of time?

thanks

I don't know what the supreme court backlog of trials is at present though hopefully with the extra judge appointed last year it is reducing. I can only guess but maybe a wait of 3 to 6 months, possibly longer, from being committed to trial. If i find out any better estimate I will post it.

And another refresh please Alioop, if you don't mind, will he be there? I understand that he probably won't speak, however I'd like to see how he's looking these days.

Yes he will have to be there sitting in a special seat with security nearby. He won't be saying much at all. It will be very embarrassing for him I imagine to be in the position he will be in, particularly knowing the media will be all over it. Whether he killed Allison or not he would never have expected this would happen to him.

 

[KG1]

If it is paid to Allison's estate then under legislation, proceeds of life insurances are exempt from her creditors.

If it is paid to GBC if he is not committed to trial or is found not guilty at trial, then it will be available as an asset of his to his creditors. Goodbye money. Good for his creditors but not good for the girls.

There are other issues as well but I don't want to go into them on open forum.

Alioop, Wouldn't Section 41 of the Succession Act 1981 Queensland come into operation if the guardians applied for Allison's minor children, given that there is no provision for them in her will?

 

[Zim]

Just got in from my friend..<modsnip>
....I'd bet my last dollar he bailed out on dumping the body and that is why he was at bus stop with head in his hands.
Sticking by your son is one thing.....but dumping the body might have been just to much.....

All MOO:banghead:

...indemnity ? ? ? Did you mean immunity ? Serious ? ! :what:

 

[alioop]

Yes KG1 and that is exactly my reason for preferring the insurances get paid to the estate. An application under sec 41 was filed in the Supreme Court last month by an excellent lawyer Angela Cornford Scott as litigation guardian for the girls. However it only works if there is money in the estate. If insurances are paid direct to GBC if not guilty, by the federal court who now holds the insurances, then there is no money in the estate from which a court can make an Order to pay the girls for provision for their proper maintenance and support under a sec 41 application, also called testators family maintenance or family provision application.

 

[alioop]

I just had a lightbulb moment. This is from memory as I haven't gone back to look it up, but wasn't it reported that GBC rang the insurance company in the days before Allison died to talk about her policy and they wouldn't talk to him as he wasn't the owner of the policy? So this sounds to me like probably the suncorp policy could not have been jointly owned as otherwise they would have talked to him. It wouldn't matter that he wasn't the life insured as that was Allison, if he was joint owner they would have given him any info he wanted on the policy.

 

[AAAA]

He could make his own new number plate....<modsnip> and while he's at it a stamp for his fore head,,,,,,,<modsnip> his ego and head is big enough to have that stamped on his head......Hope we get to see the <modsnip> in March.

Also wonder if the clan from 'Scull Manor' show up.
My text messageing friend who lives in Kenmore has not heard of any news of their movements......keep my ear to the ground...:banghead:

I haven't seen anyone recently either. Ballet keeps on with the girls. Visits keep on the the BC's. haven't heard of a recent visit from OW since the last recital.

I still wonder why his parents haven't been to any hearings? Will they turn up in March?

 

[KG1]

Yes KG1 and that is exactly my reason for preferring the insurances get paid to the estate. An application under sec 41 was filed in the Supreme Court last month by an excellent lawyer Angela Cornford Scott as litigation guardian for the girls. However it only works if there is money in the estate. If insurances are paid direct to GBC if not guilty, by the federal court who now holds the insurances, then there is no money in the estate from which a court can make an Order to pay the girls for provision for their proper maintenance and support under a sec 41 application, also called testators family maintenance or family provision application.

Thanks Alioop, it is going to get messy down the track methinks. Poor little girls and the Dickies, but at least a S41 application has been made and I guess it is on hold until such time as a trial is completed, provided GBC is committed for trial. In Victoria and some other states, we have the Testators Family Maintenance Act which covers situations where minor children have not been provided for, whether due to an outdated will or intestacy.

 

[KG1]

I just had a lightbulb moment. This is from memory as I haven't gone back to look it up, but wasn't it reported that GBC rang the insurance company in the days before Allison died to talk about her policy and they wouldn't talk to him as he wasn't the owner of the policy? So this sounds to me like probably the suncorp policy could not have been jointly owned as otherwise they would have talked to him. It wouldn't matter that he wasn't the life insured as that was Allison, if he was joint owner they would have given him any info he wanted on the policy.

I believe you are very correct in this Alioop, as I recall the same information.

 

[alioop]

Yes you right KG. Messy indeed. And the sec 41 is now on hold pending the outcome of the charges as you say. Our Succession Act legislation is pretty similar to yours in Victoria. There was a big push for uniform succession legislation throughout Australia about 10 years ago.

 

[GEANIE]

...indemnity ? ? ? Did you mean immunity ? Serious ? ! :what:

INDEMNITY was the word.....not imunity...
Legal exemption from penalties incurred by one's actions......insurance against loss...damage etc.

 

[AAAA]

I don't know what the supreme court backlog of trials is at present though hopefully with the extra judge appointed last year it is reducing. I can only guess but maybe a wait of 3 to 6 months, possibly longer, from being committed to trial. If i find out any better estimate I will post it.



Yes he will have to be there sitting in a special seat with security nearby. He won't be saying much at all. It will be very embarrassing for him I imagine to be in the position he will be in, particularly knowing the media will be all over it. Whether he killed Allison or not he would never have expected this would happen to him.

Alioop, given that you know more than us about these kinds of people, why do you think it has affected so many people, whether they know the people involved or not? Myself, I spent a brief period of time at school with Allison, but didn't know her after school. Also, having lived very close and had been shown houses by Gerard, I felt it was very close to home. It's the people away from Brookfield, Brisbane, Australia and overseas that I'm proud of for keeping this in the news. I hope there is a quick ending to this story.

 

[redlightthroughpaper]

I just had a lightbulb moment. This is from memory as I haven't gone back to look it up, but wasn't it reported that GBC rang the insurance company in the days before Allison died to talk about her policy and they wouldn't talk to him as he wasn't the owner of the policy? So this sounds to me like probably the suncorp policy could not have been jointly owned as otherwise they would have talked to him. It wouldn't matter that he wasn't the life insured as that was Allison, if he was joint owner they would have given him any info he wanted on the policy.

Yes alioop, it was in the first bail docs. "On the 12 April 2012 in the week leading up to the deceased death, the defendant contacted one insurer, about one of the deceased's policies but was not provided with any information as he was not the policy holder."

 

[AAAA]

I just had a lightbulb moment. This is from memory as I haven't gone back to look it up, but wasn't it reported that GBC rang the insurance company in the days before Allison died to talk about her policy and they wouldn't talk to him as he wasn't the owner of the policy? So this sounds to me like probably the suncorp policy could not have been jointly owned as otherwise they would have talked to him. It wouldn't matter that he wasn't the life insured as that was Allison, if he was joint owner they would have given him any info he wanted on the policy.

That's what I thought too.

 

[alioop]

Alioop, given that you know more than us about these kinds of people, why do you think it has affected so many people, whether they know the people involved or not? Myself, I spent a brief period of time at school with Allison, but didn't know her after school. Also, having lived very close and had been shown houses by Gerard, I felt it was very close to home. It's the people away from Brookfield, Brisbane, Australia and overseas that I'm proud of for keeping this in the news. I hope there is a quick ending to this story.

I am no different to anyone else on here. I connected with the case on a number of personal levels, not that I know anyone involved and also the media reporting of it put it out there to be talked about. Had the media not taken an interest we wouldn't be here now .