Cadaver dog hit on scent in DBs bedroom

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you are right, she did. forgot about that. AND my friend was just reminding me, IIRC, JI's original story was that he checked on boys, then went to parents bedroom, then asked "where's Lisa" as if expecting her to be there. When DB showed panic, THEN he went to Lisa's room.
 
Still re-reading. If I am understanding this correctly, IF Lisa passed while in her crib possibly hours earlier, and then was brought to the parents bedroom - there would have been scent in the crib as well as trace for the movement. Is that correct?
 
GoodGurl said:
I was rereading some of this, it seems that one of the keys to a viable theory to what happened lies in (from what we know) that the dog hit was NOT in the crib, or bathroom, etc., but was on "something" lying on the floor in the parents bedroom. So doesnt that mean BL was in the bedroom at some point? DB never mentioned that.
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BBM
I'm sure that Lisa was in her parents bedroom at some point in time.

The "FBI dog" hit does not in any way mean that Lisa Irwin died or was dead in that bedroom.

I'm not sure what you mean when you say "DB never mentioned that".

MOO.
 
GoodGurl said:
Still re-reading. If I am understanding this correctly, IF Lisa passed while in her crib possibly hours earlier, and then was brought to the parents bedroom - there would have been scent in the crib as well as trace for the movement. Is that correct?
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Yes, if there was a body in the crib, the dogs would have hit there. However, Deborah told Judge Jeanine that she liked to have her children sleep in her bed, so naturally it's a good assumption that Lisa slept there as well. I think she died in her mothers bedroom.
 
I think so too. Both of their statements, plus the dog hit, tend to show that Lisa was probably in DB room from dinner on, not in her crib. And that it was normal. Likely DB found her when she went in that night.
 
I found this interesting, not one but two cadaver dogs hit on the same area in this case, turned out they now believe the bones recovered were from an animal.

http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/local/san_francisco&id=8974854

"One dog hit a particular spot, the dog was taken out, a period of time went by and a second dog was sent in and he hit at the same public spot," Toomey said.

The bones recovered from the house are believed to be from an animal but are being sent to a state lab for testing. Regardless of the outcome of the tests, investigators believe they are on the right track.
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carole-- he's attempting to imply cadaver dogs --which are supposed to know the difference b/w human and animal bones-- might be responsible for a false positive at LI's house too.

except, in this search, they didn't use FBI cadaver dogs which

1) are known for having an accuracy rate of 90+% in general (links to this info posted all over this forum), and
2) martin grime's dogs have an excellent record of accuracy, specifically (same)


http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/20...n-connection-to-1984-disappearance-of-sf-boy/
 
redheadedgal said:
carole-- he's attempting to imply cadaver dogs --which are supposed to know the difference b/w human and animal bones-- might be responsible for a false positive at LI's house too.

except, in this search, they didn't use FBI cadaver dogs which

1) are known for having an accuracy rate of 90+% in general (links to this info posted all over this forum), and
2) martin grime's dogs have an excellent record of accuracy, specifically (same)


http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/20...n-connection-to-1984-disappearance-of-sf-boy/
Click to expand...

Actually, I wasn't "attempting to imply" anything, I was posting a link that shows in fact that cadaver dogs WILL hit on deceased animal remains.
 
redheadedgal said:
carole-- he's attempting to imply cadaver dogs --which are supposed to know the difference b/w human and animal bones-- might be responsible for a false positive at LI's house too.

except, in this search, they didn't use FBI cadaver dogs which

1) are known for having an accuracy rate of 90+% in general (links to this info posted all over this forum), and
2) martin grime's dogs have an excellent record of accuracy, specifically (same)


http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/20...n-connection-to-1984-disappearance-of-sf-boy/
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In order to believe SODDI it's impossible NOT to ignore evidence.
 
I was posting a link that shows in fact that cadaver dogs WILL hit on deceased animal remains
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properly trained cadaver dogs (as in FBI assets) will not alert to animal bones:


http://k9searchsolutions.com/Services.html

http://barksar.org/NNDDA_cert.pdf

http://www.globalanimal.org/2011/06...ut-truth-in-casey-anthony-murder-trial/41784/

http://www.crime-scene-investigator.net/cadaverdogs.html

http://www.scpr.org/news/2012/01/20/30870/indiana-bones-cadaver-dog-severed-limbs-hollywood/

http://www.illinoissearchdogs.org/capabilities/cadaver_dogs.shtml

http://www.illinoissearchdogs.org/capabilities/cadaver_dogs.shtml

http://www.ilpwda.com/faqs.htm

http://ornl.gov/info/ornlreview/v37_1_04/article_18.shtml

etc.


but feel free to 1) provide a link where an FBI cadaver dog alerted to animal bones or 2) provide a link to info where animal bones were found in DB's bedroom...

( maybe DB ate a big old bucket of KFC in bed :D )
 
Lynne Engelbert, of the California-based Institute for Canine Forensics, says there isn't a nationally established training standard for cadaver dogs, but said her organization's regimen is "intense."

"We're very specific…we want to be the best of the best," she said, adding the group developed its own certification test, which is conducted annually.

"We've worked hard to get the reputation we have. If we don't have that integrity, we've got nothing."

The FBI has three cadaver dogs working cases countrywide. Each is tested annually to ensure they meet "best practice" standards, Rex A. Stockham, the FBI's forensic canine program manager has testified.

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20130126/METRO/301260361#ixzz2LCeYgu6I
 
In one or more of your many above links it states no psuedo scents may be used while in another it states ...

Special chemicals are used to simulate the scent of decomposing human flesh in training Cadaver dogs. Unlike simulated narcotic smells, or other training scents, simulated cadaver smells are not available to anyone but a certified training facility.
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So it seems even these experts you quote can't agree on how they are trained. Feel free to 1) show proof where it states as a fact FBI cadaver dogs never get it wrong 2) that FBI dogs found evidence of human remains that was removed from the Irwin household

If FBI dogs were 100% credible, there would have been an arrest by now.
 
lol--

1) i wasn't discussing how the dogs were trained... i was speaking about what they are trained to find and what they should be trained to ignore
2) i couldn't find one article that asserted an FBI dog got it wrong... unlike your "alameda dogs"
3) "an FBI dog alerted to the scent of a deceased human being" is good enough for myself and many here
4) who would be arrested? for what? murder? accidental death cover up? (again, if LE can't prove who did what, how can they lay charges exactly?)
 
redheadedgal said:
lol--

1) i wasn't discussing how the dogs were trained... i was speaking about what they are trained to find and what they should be trained to ignore
2) i couldn't find one article that asserted an FBI dog got it wrong... unlike your "alameda dogs"
3) "an FBI dog alerted to the scent of a deceased human being" is good enough for myself and many here
4) who would be arrested? for what? murder? accidental death cover up? (again, if LE can't prove who did what, how can they lay charges exactly?)
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BBM: The dog alerted or so they claim in the SW, since we have no proof any human decomposition was gathered, I can only assume the dog signaled, if the dog was 100% accurate is still up in the air for many of us
 
redheadedgal said:
Lynne Engelbert, of the California-based Institute for Canine Forensics, says there isn't a nationally established training standard for cadaver dogs, but said her organization's regimen is "intense."

"We're very specific…we want to be the best of the best," she said, adding the group developed its own certification test, which is conducted annually.

"We've worked hard to get the reputation we have. If we don't have that integrity, we've got nothing."

The FBI has three cadaver dogs working cases countrywide. Each is tested annually to ensure they meet "best practice" standards, Rex A. Stockham, the FBI's forensic canine program manager has testified.

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20130126/METRO/301260361#ixzz2LCeYgu6I
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BBM
Are you saying that the FBI dog hit at the Irwin home was made by one of these three FBI dogs. I thought that you always said that it was Martin Grime's dog that made the hit.
 
Dewey2Me1MoThyme said:
Yes, I know that, I posted it. :waitasec:
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In the article you posted, the bones have been sent to the lab for testing to determine whether or not they are human. Just because someone thinks they are animal bones, LE is interested in finding out for sure.
 
carole said:
In the article you posted, the bones have been sent to the lab for testing to determine whether or not they are human. Just because someone thinks they are animal bones, LE is interested in finding out for sure.
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Yes I know, I read it. As of 6th of Feb they still believed they were animal bones, I haven't been able to find anything more current.
 
re: the alameda sheriff's office dogs that apparently alerted to animal bones as brought forth for discussion by another poster

seems those dogs have a "habit" of giving false positives... they did it again on phillip garrido's property (the man convicted of kidnapping/raping jaycee dugard):

bones found: http://abcnews.go.com/US/bones-found-cadaver-dogs-indicate-phillip-garrido-property/story?id=8600688

bones "likely animal": http://www.rgj.com/article/20091001/NEWS/91001023/Police--Bones-on-Garrido-property-likely-animal


i think the ASO needs new dogs.
 
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