CA/Canada - Elisa Lam - 21 years old - Los Angeles/Vancouver - 31-Jan-2013 - #3

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I've been following these threads for a few days, and there are a lot of good theories and detective work!

I was just down in the Fashion District about 3 days before they found EL--it was a weird feeling to realize that I was so close and that she may have visted the Fashion District herself. I've also read Suzuki Koji's Dark Water, and the similarities are eerie! It's not the only scary roof thing that has happened in his books, either. Utter coincidence in my opinion, though.

To me, it's just not very plausible that EL would have voluntarily gone into that tank. In my youth I had a lot of mental problems and took a wide variety of psychiatric and illegal drugs, and I was much shyer and more submissive than Elisa's self-portrayal in her blogs. I never would have gone in that tank voluntarily, no matter how crazy or high I was. I would have fought to the death if someone tried to make me. So I think she was already dead. I certainly don't think she committed suicide...from what we know, she seems to have been on a bipolar up-swing. I think that if she crashed and wanted to commit suicide, she would have jumped from the roof--you only need a quick burst of courage to jump and you know you'll die very quickly.

I haven't seen anyone talk about this too much, but I've thought the simplest explanation for the choice of tank would be if she died on top of the maintenance building. Then nobody would have to carry her up any ladders at all, and the tank is right there. If a boy I was kind of interested in had asked me to go up there to check out the view and talk, I would have done it. If I was manic, I might also have gone with someone I wasn't interested in. Lots of unfascinating people seem fascinating to talk to when you're manic. It's a lot like being on speed (I speak from experience--a class of antidepressants induced bipolar III mania in me even though I'm not normally bipolar). I feel that I would have gone to get my glasses, but maybe not if I was more interested in the person than the view. She may have done completely different things than I would--this is just what I feel.

I found a book called Cause of Death: Forensic Files of a Medical Examiner on Google Books that sheds a little light on determining cause of death with a body that has been in water. I wanted to know if a medical examiner could definitely tell if EL had been strangled (the answer seems to be "not necessarily"). This link should go right to page 105-the story of Rachel Timmerman starts there: http://books.google.com/books?id=EwOThAN8s08C&lpg=PP1&pg=PA105#v=onepage&q&f=false The gist of it was that the the ME needed to determine whether the victim was strangled/asphyxiated on Michigan state land or drowned after she was dumped in a federally-owned lake. This was an important distinction, because if her case was under federal jurisdiction the killer could get the death penalty. This was never truly determined, but the prosecutor was able to get the death penalty anyway (since overturned on a technicality).

I learned from this that MEs are amazingly good, but occasionally it's very difficult to determine the cause of death with total certainty. In this case, the examiner said that although he didn't find petechial hemorrhages, they may not occur if the victim was strangled with a towel over her throat (EL's killer could have used her hoodie for this). I read elsewhere in medical literature that the hyoid bone (contrary to popular belief) only breaks about a third of the time when someone is manually strangled. So, it could be...

You've got some really great thoughts there! Welcome
 
there are no other cameras in the hallway. several people on chinese forums have gone inside and stayed a night there to investigate things and they have all confirmed that there are no cameras in the hallway.
I wonder what happens on the floors above the 10th floor at night. It would be interesting for the Chinese investigators to see what happens at midnight, but it might be creepy for them. Do guests actually come out of their rooms and do creepy things? In these recent Cecil tour videos, it is taken in daylight and the hallways are empty of people.
Do security walk around freely on the floors at night or they all stay on the lobby?
 
apparently there's a post by someone who's sister works at a chinese radio station in LA and got to interview the coroner on the phone. the poster wrote out what his/her sister said.
the site is in chinese.(somehow i do think the chinese media has more interest in this than the western media)

http://forum6.hkgolden.com/view.aspx?type=CA&message=4284760

i haven't had time to go through it but this might provide some information on things that aren't released to the media yet.

The original poster of this interview has removed his/her post from his/her blog. But the important portions of the translation goes somewhat like this:-

"EL's case is not normal. She's a Canadian, who is a Chinese but died in America. The relevant agencies in America have classified this as a complicated political case. This being said, unless there is concrete evidence, there will not be any quick judgements"

"There are NO visible wounds on EL's body.. and she was definitely found NAKED. There is therefore no possiblity of EL dying due to physical abusement"

"The autopsy is still not done. There are in the process of checking EL if she had any sickness/disease/substance. It will take another 6-8 weeks for the entire autopsy process to be completed. (This has already been verified to be true). This autopsy will ultimately be able to determine EL's cause of death, which includes whether she was on medication/substance.. whether she was dead before she was placed into the tank...etc etc... "
 
Just for funsies...

WHAT IF the elevator video had not been released? Taking that out of the sleuthing equation, would that change anyone's theories? Forgetting her behavior and what buttons did or did not light up, how does a missing tourist wind up dead in a water tank?

Also, out of curiosity, how the h*ll is it legal for so many sex offenders to live (long term) in a hotel? Young women traveling alone, vacationing families with children all unknowingly roaming the halls with registered sex offenders?!
 
the simplest explanation for the choice of tank would be if she died on top of the maintenance building. Then nobody would have to carry her up any ladders at all, and the tank is right there.

There were no signs of trauma on the body. So how would she have died on top of the maintenance building with no physical signs of trauma?

Also the tank is at least a good six foot or more drop from the top of the maintenance building. I also though at first she could have come from there, but after further examining the layout it seems like it would be extremely difficult to drop a dead body from that height and have it land perfectly in such a small opening. It would have been much easier to climb up the ladder attached to the tank to insert it in the hole.
 
To me, Cecil is a satanic hotel, something like Hotel California. Seems to be a channel for evil spirits. The journalist who stayed there, Jack Unterweger, ended up a serial killer.
Jack Unterweger had already killed 10 or 12 prostitutes before he set foot in the Cecil Hotel. Evil spirits didn't lure him there, seeing hookers from his hotel window did. The Cecil Hotel is not satanic and contains no evil spirits because neither of those things exist. It's a hotel in a shady area that's populated by a lot of scumbags.

And the Hotel California is a small waterfront hotel on Ocean Ave in Santa Monica. I walked by it the other day - nothing suspicious. You can't check in anytime you like though, you need to make a reservation.
 
Something occurred to me tonight. Two things:

Was she robbed?

When I stay in a hotel, I never leave my room without my purse/wallet/tote, always carrying my wallet, phone, medication, keys. In the video, Elisa has nothing with her.

She had no glasses on and is farsighted. We know she 'lost' her phone. My feeling all along has been that she might be off her medications, as opposed to being drugged, and it hadn't occurred me that her wallet or bag could have been taken. In addition to her belongings, some medications are valuable on the street, too.

Was she hiding the only place she thought was safe?
If her purse/keys/glasses meds were stolen, say from her room--or if someone accosted her for them--she could have gotten utterly paranoid, and didn't know who to trust, and was scared of her room, and security, and the street. And if she had no money, and didn't want to tell her parents, maybe she was looking for a place to hide.

What if she went to the roof to hide out the night? What if once there it was cold or she was very scared, and what if she lowered herself into opening of the cistern, thinking it was empty, and that she could sleep there till the morning? It it's 10ft tall, say (I'm not sure) and was only 4or 5ft full, she could have lowered herself down inside too far before she realized there was water, and then couldn't get out. She would not have drowned so much as died from the cold, and any sound she made would be muffled.
 
Just for funsies...

WHAT IF the elevator video had not been released? Taking that out of the sleuthing equation, would that change anyone's theories? Forgetting her behavior and what buttons did or did not light up, how does a missing tourist wind up dead in a water tank?

Also, out of curiosity, how the h*ll is it legal for so many sex offenders to live (long term) in a hotel? Young women traveling alone, vacationing families with children all unknowingly roaming the halls with registered sex offenders?!

First part, without the video it looks a whole lot like foul play. Anything else would be nothing short of bizarre. With the video and her behavior bizarre, the bizarre hypothesis become less so.

Second part, I have no idea.
 
Was going through the timeline thread, and found the explanation for those questioning when LE may have gathered evidence in relation to when firemen were retrieving Elisa's body:

The discovery at 640 S Main St. was reported at 10:13 a.m. today, police said ...

The Los Angeles Fire Department tells us they were called to the area at 1:10 p.m. today.




from:
http://blogs.laweekly.com/informer/...und_cecil_hotel_dtla_downtown_los_angeles.php


They waited almost 3 hours?? Why? This seems to support my hypothesis of a cover up.
 
Does anyone recall how she came to be on the set of George Strombouloupoulos?
As seen in a fb photo?

TIA
 
Something occurred to me tonight. Two things:

Was she robbed?

When I stay in a hotel, I never leave my room without my purse/wallet/tote, always carrying my wallet, phone, medication, keys. In the video, Elisa has nothing with her.

She had no glasses on and is farsighted. We know she 'lost' her phone. My feeling all along has been that she might be off her medications, as opposed to being drugged, and it hadn't occurred me that her wallet or bag could have been taken. In addition to her belongings, some medications are valuable on the street, too.

Was she hiding the only place she thought was safe?
If her purse/keys/glasses meds were stolen, say from her room--or if someone accosted her for them--she could have gotten utterly paranoid, and didn't know who to trust, and was scared of her room, and security, and the street. And if she had no money, and didn't want to tell her parents, maybe she was looking for a place to hide.

What if she went to the roof to hide out the night? What if once there it was cold or she was very scared, and what if she lowered herself into opening of the cistern, thinking it was empty, and that she could sleep there till the morning? It it's 10ft tall, say (I'm not sure) and was only 4or 5ft full, she could have lowered herself down inside too far before she realized there was water, and then couldn't get out. She would not have drowned so much as died from the cold, and any sound she made would be muffled.

I've wondered about the robbery aspect too, and here's my thoughts on a partial theory along those lines.

Was she possibly hanging with someone on one of the upper floors or in one of the lounges, went back to her room and found she had been robbed, and suspecting it may have been a set-up while she was absent (whether guest, housekeeping, security), clued in to who knew she was not in her room.

She went back upstairs to confront them or to find a security guard to speak to. The stride onto the elevator a "so there" attitude, the "counting" on her fingers itemizing what's missing like "my purse, my phone, my computer, my glasses, etc", (iirc) the arms folded across the chest a sign of resolve "i'm going downstairs to report this", the slight buckling of the knees "what am in going to do now", popping back out hands to head, again the "what am i supposed to do now", etc. I detected signs of exasperation in her elevator movements. Possibly she became a liability to someone who would lose their job if a theft was investigated and proven.

I can't watch the video over and over due to the cost of data usage on mobile internet, so can't precisely fit my theory to all the actions. I am not hard and fast on one theory alone, but this one seems to make sense to me.

JMO .. one of many
 
apparently there's a post by someone who's sister works at a chinese radio station in LA and got to interview the coroner on the phone. the poster wrote out what his/her sister said.
the site is in chinese.(somehow i do think the chinese media has more interest in this than the western media)

http://forum6.hkgolden.com/view.aspx?type=CA&message=4284760

i haven't had time to go through it but this might provide some information on things that aren't released to the media yet.

Looks like KTSF did contact the coroner. Toxicology results needed in Elisa Lam’s death (KTSF26 report, in Mandarin Chinese)

It is mentioned at the very beginning that the coroner said EL's death does look suspicious considering her age and health conditions. (I think they mean "young & healthy") .
 
I've moved some posts to the new thread. Please continue there. This thread is now closed.

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=200307"]CA/Canada - Elisa Lam - 21 years old - Los Angeles/Vancouver - 31-Jan-2013 - #4 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

Thank you.
 
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