CA/Canada - Elisa Lam - 21 years old - Los Angeles/Vancouver - 31-Jan-2013 - #5

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I'm pretty independent and wouldn't do that, either.

Yes, it's really dependent on the individual. I was speaking with a friend of mine last night (mother of 2 young adults in their 20s), and she was appalled that EL was travelling alone. On the flip side, i know many young people who travel alone and don't find it particularly unusual.

FWIW re the video, my friend said they had seen the video and their impression was that Elisa was definitely frightened by something but not terrified.
 
Re-watching the video [removed], two things strike me:

(1) Around 1:40, when she pushes all the buttons then immediately gets out, it seems like maybe she's intentionally stalling the elevator? What if (SPECULATION ONLY) she's actually waiting for someone this whole time and holding the elevator intentionally. Still think her behavior indicates something going on in addition to just waiting normally, but that could be plausible. Then when they show up, they decide to take the stairs instead? This could also explain the peeking and connects back to the possible game scenario (she's trying to surprise whoever she's waiting for, maybe).

(2) The box step could just be that she's looking in the mirror and trying to get in without looking (again with the possibly-intoxicated-playing-around idea).
 
Re-watching the video [removed], two things strike me:

(1) Around 1:40, when she pushes all the buttons then immediately gets out, it seems like maybe she's intentionally stalling the elevator? What if (SPECULATION ONLY) she's actually waiting for someone this whole time and holding the elevator intentionally. Still think her behavior indicates something going on in addition to just waiting normally, but that could be plausible. Then when they show up, they decide to take the stairs instead? This could also explain the peeking and connects back to the possible game scenario (she's trying to surprise whoever she's waiting for, maybe).

(2) The box step could just be that she's looking in the mirror and trying to get in without looking (again with the possibly-intoxicated-playing-around idea).

This was my thought, too. She could be holding the elevator and waiting for a friend. Or (less likely, IMO), she could be trying to hold the elevator to stop someone on a lower floor from using it (i.e. someone following her). IIRC, the other elevator was broken.
 
Even considering her ethnical background, WHY would she kill herself in such a disturbing way? There are plenty ways to kill yourself, drowning has to be one of the worst.

Also, the cistern was 3/4 full at the time her body was discovered, how could she know about the water level's rise and fall?

I've got a very strange gut feeling about this.
 
Below are some of the points that should be taken into account if the following scenario is true:

00:20, the occupant has left the apartment, is holding the elevator button in the hall, and is outside the vision of the camera. He says calmly, "hey, get out of the elevator."
00:24, she checks the hallway, and sees the man standing by the button. She positions herself to view the the man, and is waiting for the elevator doors to shut. The occupant holds the button to the elevator, and calmly asks who she is.

(1) After hearing the occupant's voice, Elisa wasn't able to tell which direction it was from, hence looking both ways (to the right side first, in fact).
(2) Even after seeing someone outside, she quickly retreats back inside, ignoring the occupant.

00:37, She approaches the man and attempts to apologize.
00:48, the occupant tells her to get out of the elevator. She shyly and slowly begins to, but sees danger.

(1) The assumption is that the man is on the left side, yet when Elisa slowly steps out, her head is facing right.

00:53, the occupant pulls out a gun, and this causes her to jump. The occupant says, "spread your legs", and she complies. The occupant is now telling her to come closer to him. She doesn't understand there's a camera in the elevator, while the occupant is fully aware of this.

(1) Upon seeing the gun, Elisa jumps forward.
(2) After complying with the spreading of legs due to occupant possessing a gun, she then quickly (maybe going against the wishes of the occupant) closes her legs and steps back.

1:03, the occupant grabs her at gunpoint, makes her place her hands on her head, demands to know who she is and what she's doing there, and tells her to get out of here or he'll kill her, and he says, "you've got 20-seconds to get out of here". and he releases her.
1:30, she enters the elevator and is terrified. In a panic, she hits all the buttons in the middle row, but she keeps hitting the "HOLD DOOR" button. The man is counting down, and she doesn't understand why she can't leave.
1:50, exactly 20-seconds later, the occupant hits the button again and orders her to come back. She's in tears and is trying to say she's confused. The occupant doesn't believe her.

(1) With only 20 seconds to leave, Elisa walks slowly back into the elevator. (quicker ways to leave are possible, but maybe the occupant demanded her to leave by elevator).
(2) After repeatedly pressing the buttons, Elisa doesn't wait for the doors to close at all, she just walks back out, tidying her hair on the way.

1:57, the occupant grabs her neck and places his gun on the back of her head, she's pulling away, giving the strange look about her arms, because she's trying to trigger the sensor to keep the door open.
2:05, the occupant notices what she's doing, grabs her neck, and gives her a yank and tells her to shut up, and she completely submits.
2:12, she begins begging for her life and/or pleading with the occupant to believe her.
2:20, the occupant orders her to be quiet.

(1) With a gun pointed behind her, Elisa performs big motions with her hands and legs.
--------------------------------------

Needless to say, I am not convinced of this scenario yet.
 
Yes, it's really dependent on the individual. I was speaking with a friend of mine last night (mother of 2 young adults in their 20s), and she was appalled that EL was travelling alone. On the flip side, i know many young people who travel alone and don't find it particularly unusual.

FWIW re the video, my friend said they had seen the video and their impression was that Elisa was definitely frightened by something but not terrified.

I guess I should have specified. It's not about the fear factor. It's about the companionship thing. You go to the type of places she went because of the shared experience of it. There may be an aspect of the twitterdom where people get the same sense of companionship from tweeting to their friend's about the restaurant they went to, or the band they heard at a cool place...Idk.

But, hostels and that type thing, I definitely think should be attempted by lone males and not really well-suited to solo female travels unless she is
Ronda Rousy or MMA proficient because of the locale of such places.
 
This was my thought, too. She could be holding the elevator and waiting for a friend. Or (less likely, IMO), she could be trying to hold the elevator to stop someone on a lower floor from using it (i.e. someone following her). IIRC, the other elevator was broken.

A poster here who stayed there in early February said the other elevator to their knowledge was out of order on the 6th and 7th during their extended stay to the 10th.

Was there some other indication it was OOO prior to this during January also?
 
I am a little confused, the 20 seconds apply to the video with reduced speed, don't they?
Hence, in normal speed, the 20 seconds have to be much shorter, or am I getting something wrong here?
 
A poster here who stayed there in early February said the other elevator to their knowledge was out of order on the 6th and 7th during their extended stay to the 10th.

Was there some other indication it was OOO prior to this during January also?

Ah, that's right. Please disregard my comment about the broken elevator during her stay. I don't think we know that--my bad!
 
Some other thoughts that I had about the state of her death:
I think a water tank on the roof is an excellent place to hide a body/person. It's not foolproof, but gives the perp ample time to clean up and stall the police.
If there was a perp, his/her intent was for Elisa to die. Some people mentioned the perp could push her off the building, but that would alert the the cops and everyone else too quickly.
I do not think storing her body in the tank was initially planned. The opening is small, so the perp had to make sure Elisa could fit through. If the perp carried her up there and realized she couldn't fit, he'd be in deep crap (he couldn't afford the risk). So I think she was stored elsewhere initially, either in a dead or living state.
If she was forced to get in the tank herself, then the perp would again have to be sure she fit through the opening (which would mean she was a planned target). Otherwise, if she got up there and couldn't fit through, the perp would have to force her to go elsewhere (again increasing the risk).
 
I guess I should have specified. It's not about the fear factor. It's about the companionship thing. You go to the type of places she went because of the shared experience of it. There may be an aspect of the twitterdom where people get the same sense of companionship from tweeting to their friend's about the restaurant they went to, or the band they heard at a cool place...Idk.

But, hostels and that type thing, I definitely think should be attempted by lone males and not really well-suited to solo female travels unless she is
Ronda Rousy or MMA proficient because of the locale of such places.

I think it depends on the hostel. Some are totally decent and nicer than some hotels (like the Cecil, for example!).:twocents:
 
I am also wondering WHEN she really got into the cistern (whether forced or by choice), as the roof seems to be a pretty popular place.
 
I am also wondering WHEN she really got into the cistern (whether forced or by choice), as the roof seems to be a pretty popular place.

That's where i would be considering the possibility of 2 perps involved ... one being an accomplice to keep six on the roof and phone the perp to give an all clear and to possibly keep the door to the roof closed while Elisa is being put into the water tank.

JMO

Sorry, i didn't address timing .. just jumped off your post.
 
I'm a woman and I travel alone all the time. We had this debate in the thread about Sarai in Turkey. Some women would never consider traveling alone and some women would never consider that they shouldn't. As a woman traveling alone, I do take some extra precautions and it does give my family fits, but a girl's gotta do what a girl's gotta do. We can't necessarily sit back and wait for a partner in crime or a chaperone when we want to see the world.
 
I am also wondering WHEN she really got into the cistern (whether forced or by choice), as the roof seems to be a pretty popular place.

Me too. And whether she was killed on the roof, which eliminates the problem of how to carry up a dead body undetected but not the problem of possibly being seen. But I do suspect she was dead when she went into the tank.
 
I'm a woman and I travel alone all the time. We had this debate in the thread about Sarai in Turkey. Some women would never consider traveling alone and some women would never consider that they shouldn't. As a woman traveling alone, I do take some extra precautions and it does give my family fits, but a girl's gotta do what a girl's gotta do. We can't necessarily sit back and wait for a partner in crime or a chaperone when we want to see the world.

^This. I would personally rather assume whatever potential risk there might be in traveling solo than stay home out of fear or lack of a companion. BUT, to each her own!

Back to Elisa...
 
I am also wondering WHEN she really got into the cistern (whether forced or by choice), as the roof seems to be a pretty popular place.

That's what I'm screaming.
There are three evidently exits to the roof plus fire escapes and a popular hangout by lots of people to drink, smoke breaks, do drugs, have adventurous sex, take photos, stargaze, I mean, I can't figure when anyone could do this and not be seen FOR SURE either entering or exiting the roof, they would not be seen.
 
one being an accomplice to keep six on the roof and phone the perp to give an all clear and to possibly keep the door to the roof closed while Elisa is being put into the water tank.

Exactly.

Until now, it seems like the "perfect crime".
 
That's what I'm screaming.
There are three evidently exits to the roof plus fire escapes and a popular hangout by lots of people to drink, smoke breaks, do drugs, have adventurous sex, take photos, stargaze, I mean, I can't figure when anyone could do this and not be seen FOR SURE either entering or exiting the roof, they would not be seen.

3 exits plus fire escapes? I am only aware of 1 entrance/exit and 3 fire escapes.
 
^This. I would personally rather assume whatever potential risk there might be in traveling solo than stay home out of fear or lack of a companion. BUT, to each her own!

Back to Elisa...

NO, This IS about Elisa. I mean trying to understand the mindset.
Now be honest, is this strictly about wanting to go places to be alone
there, or is it about the prospect of perhaps meeting a handsome stranger
and being unencumbered and available?
 
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