CA/Canada - Elisa Lam - 21 years old - Los Angeles/Vancouver - 31-Jan-2013 - #5

[TheRoger]

Also we don't have a lot to go with here, the police are clearly holding back. If it truly was accidental they would probably release more info or some type of explaination. Often the cops will play their cards tight to the vest if a serial killer is suspected as was learned in the Jack the Ripper case over 100 years ago. Having the public in the know only creates pandemonium and false leads, completely muddying the case. Anyhting said here is obvioulsy just an opinion or a POTENTIAL scenario, as no one here knows better than anyone else what really happened.

Also, I am not a police officer or a detective. None of what I do or think has any outcome on this case whatsoever. This allows me, and anyone else on here, the liberty of leaping to conclusions or going with a gut feeling or proposing unsubstatiated theories. If the actual outcome of the case was riding on my analysis i would not be proposing different scenarios or following my gut instinct, but stick to the facts. It's an intellectual exccercise to read these cases and try an analyse the little evidence offered. Not sure I would want or be able to handle the presure of actually being responible for the outcome of a murder case.

That being said, the way the police have released info on both these deaths is not typical of an accidental death/suicide which leads me to deduce that there is way more than meets the eye here and a possible link. Read the first article released on the Newport body and subsitute in your mind the beach for a water tank and it reads almost exactly the same as the first aticle after Lams body was found.

 

[TheRoger]

Sometimes the police will have very little and make it look like they have nothing to go on when in reality they are trying to give a known serial killer confidence in hopes he will become more brazen and 'slip up'.

 

[Peter Brendt]

Sometimes the police will have very little and make it look like they have nothing to go on when in reality they are trying to give a known serial killer confidence in hopes he will become more brazen and 'slip up'.

I'm no fan of that secrecy strategy. Wichita PD helped BTK toi a three decade career by doing that, LISK is out there at least five years now, Manorville since more than a decade for sure. And so it goes on and on. If serial killers would have official allies in LE, they couldn't do more for their homicidal friends than what some PDs do anyway with this secrecy strategy. Sometimes, this border already to active serial killer support. I have some of those cases on my website, but then also some where police did good work in places, one wouldn't exactly that degree of professionalism. So, try not to get killed on the East Coast or between Houston and Dallas in the I-45 corridor ... better Pattaya/Thailand.

 

[TheRoger]

It's defnitely a chess game, with no apparent right or wrong move. I thnik police will only turn to the public in a serial case when all leads have been exhausted. If they were to say now that a SK is on the loose it would lead to thousands of erroneous tips many of which will take valuable time to check out, and make the trail grow colder. It will also lead to hundreds of letters and phone calls from 'the killer' and possibly mask any real clues that the killer may offer. It's hard to say as no two cases are the same and no strategy is going to work in each instance.

 

[AlphaWolf]

You know, Jeffrey Dahmer killed a guy in a hotel once? And then he thought "Oh sh**! How to handle this?". So he went out, bought a big chest, put the body in it and employed the help of an unknowing hotel employee to get that thing out of the hotel, just like any other big piece of luggage. People are not that observant.

That's kind of what I'm trying to convey...

If it was a guest moving around a large case it wouldn't be as suspicious...

but a hotel employee carrying a large item outside ( especially if it wasn't a cleaning person) would put up a red flag.( to the LE going through video)...I was thinking more of a reason the perp had to hide the body in the tank( that perp was familiar with)

 

[Qrious]

Am I understanding from this police video that when they originally searched the hotel, the lid on the tank was closed so they didn't look inside? If the lid was closed...that really does make it seem more like foul play. Hmm.

(Respectfully snipped for relevance)

Yes, it does seem so given what he said: "My understanding is that the lid was closed when the officers went up there, and they didn't think that someone would climb up or go up onto that lid." (Correct me if I've quoted wrongly.)

It should indicate foul play but somehow LAPD is not treating as such yet, which I find rather strange.

 

[Godsdog]

The LA area has some sad history of several SKs active in the same area and at the same time. The Hillside Stranglers dropped their bodies at the same hills, where Alcala dropped at least one and then, a little way around the same foothills, we find the houses, the Manson family attacked. As a matter of fact, in an urban area of that size, it's mathematical far more likely to have more than one active at any given time than to have none at all. But then, most SKs aren't detected that easily. They are there, but nobody makes the right connection.

Years ago I dated a woman whose brother worked for the FBI on chasing serial killers. She told me that he said that they believed that at any given time Los Angeles, with such a large percentage of its population being transient, had between 5 to 10 serial killers in its midst. Frightening.

 

[AlphaWolf]

Am I understanding from this police video that when they originally searched the hotel, the lid on the tank was closed so they didn't look inside? If the lid was closed...that really does make it seem more like foul play. Hmm.

wow!.....

Going through the timeline thread.....the police searched the roof in between Feb 6th - 13th??...correct?

 

[Godsdog]

I have some of those cases on my website, but then also some where police did good work in places, one wouldn't exactly that degree of professionalism. So, try not to get killed on the East Coast or between Houston and Dallas in the I-45 corridor ... better Pattaya/Thailand.

Hi, Peter. I read your posts with interest. Is it possible to post a link to your website, or to send it to me in a PM if posting such is not allowed? Thanks.

 

[Peter Brendt]

It's defnitely a chess game, with no apparent right or wrong move. I thnik police will only turn to the public in a serial case when all leads have been exhausted. If they were to say now that a SK is on the loose it would lead to thousands of erroneous tips many of which will take valuable time to check out, and make the trail grow colder. It will also lead to hundreds of letters and phone calls from 'the killer' and possibly mask any real clues that the killer may offer. It's hard to say as no two cases are the same and no strategy is going to work in each instance.

In fact, from a mathematical point of view, it's very easy to say. Cases with extreme secrecy strategy end up with an average career time for the serial killer of ab. 17 years. And that is only, because some of them were caught doing stupid things like leaving meta data on floppy disks. And it is also because those they never get by repeating the same failures over and over again, are not even counted.
The average career time of serial killers in cases with involvement of the public is about two weeks. Okay, there are some like Chase or Graham, who made it only four days or six. And the Speed Freaks made it what? three weeks? The last one was the guy killing panhandlers in Orange County. He actually made it 8 days and he got caught while attacking another victim. Quite a different to those decades long hunts with secrecy all over the place.

 

[MesaVerde]

# large suit case - probably the best option, wouldn't look as suspicious,but it would still be very hard to carry.

Ok. Short version due to complaints....

I can drag 90 pounds a couple miles and up hill in suitcases. So I think a normal strength guy can handle 115 pounds.

Better?

 

[Godsdog]

wow!.....

Going through the timeline thread.....the police searched the roof in between Feb 6th - 13th??...correct?

This is a really good point which seems to all but confirm that the water tank lid was closed. If the police were searching the roof and the lid were open they would be much more likely to peer inside.

Are there any photographs of the original police search on the roof when EL was still listed as a missing person?

If there are perhaps that will answer the question as to whether the water tank lid was open or closed.

 

[noodled1]

(Respectfully snipped for relevance)

Yes, it does seem so given what he said: "My understanding is that the lid was closed when the officers went up there, and they didn't think that someone would climb up or go up onto that lid." (Correct me if I've quoted wrongly.)

It should indicate foul play but somehow LAPD is not treating as such yet, which I find rather strange.

I'm not sure what LAPD has said that makes you think they are not considering/treating it as foul play or not foul play or any type of play. I must have missed a statement from LAPD
Last I read they hadn't ruled out anything as yet

 

[TheRoger]

Also if they are vent pipes for plumbing drains, i would be checking the plumbing drains for any missing evidence such as wallet, ID, credit cards, glasses. Would be a good place to dispose of small things.

 

[MesaVerde]

Quite a different to those decades long hunts with secrecy all over the place.

Correct me if I am wrong. I think you have thought about this and studied it so probably have a better idea about it than me.

I think with the secrecy, law enforcement is usually trying to somehow protect their "case" for if it should ever go to trial and this protection comes at the expense of finding the killer. I suppose it makes sense in some ways because if they jeopardize their case but catch the killer, the killer might walk.

But it would seem that they should take that chance because finding the guy and losing the trial is better than never finding the guy. If they released everything they knew, somebody might put two and two together and realize that they know something and break the case wide open.

 

[TheRoger]

ok they are drain vent pipes.

Have a look at this photo,

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lan...er-womans-body-found-in-hotel-water-tank.html

What is the lone firefighter on the right standing next to?

 

[Peter Brendt]

Years ago I dated a woman whose brother worked for the FBI on chasing serial killers. She told me that he said that they believed that at any given time Los Angeles, with such a large percentage of its population being transient, had between 5 to 10 serial killers in its midst. Frightening.

La and surroundings have some factors that make the situation even worse than in NYC and surroundings (statistically 6 at any given time). Ethnic subcultural areas (means subcultural hiding places), big amounts of good coming in and out (people always forget to add the occasional trucker SKs), the climate (also serial killers prefer usually sunny places before rainy ones), general lifestyle and so on.

 

[AlphaWolf]

People keep saying this. But as a reference, I have traveled overseas a few times. A couple I was there for over a month. I am ashamed to say that I traveled a little on the heavy side. That means that I carry the max allowance that the airline would allow me without having to pay an upcharge.

And I never took a taxi. I was always public transportation and hoofing it around through many countries. So, yeah, I was dragging one 50 to 55 pound large suitcase plus a 20 to 30 pound carry on plus my LARGE purse which had a camcorder, camera and tons of other crap and probably weighed at least 15 pounds on its own.

Add that all up and I was dragging around about 90 pounds. I am about Elisa Lam's height and weight. I dragged that about two miles to get from the Underground to a youth hostel in London once. Part of the way was up a really nasty, steep hill. I also lugged that up and down steps when I needed to by strapping the carry-on case to the larger suitcase.

So if I (slender female) can drag 90 pounds two miles and up a hill, then a regular sized guy can lug a 115 pound woman down some stairs or up some stairs.

I am just really weirded out by this idea that a dude can't carry her. Sorry, just don't get it. Have I just dated strong guys? If a guy told me he couldn't get me up or down some stairs, I would like laugh at him. I might not laugh in his face but I would laugh inside quite a bit. I would make an exception for a tiny little 100 pound guy--like one of those skinny little metrosexual skinny jean wearing French guys that we saw all over Paris. My boyfriend commented about it quite a bit. He got a complex and started saying he was fat. I was like, honey, they look like girls. Really, I could beat most of them up. I like you just the way you are--a big strong, red blooded American boy. Nothing wrong with you. If a regular American guy said he couldn't carry a small girl down some stairs if he had to, seriously, I would really look at him funny.

thanks for the reply mas verde....


I was talking about... " if an employee killed her"....why not move the body out of the hotel through the stairs.

an employee would need to have a large case for the body.....and move it down the stairs / elevator. ( I do believe it would be the best option...but still heavy...that was all I am trying to convey)



but it would look a little suspicious for an employee carrying thier own case/luggage.......is it possible?...of course. would it be heavy?....yes.

 

[MesaVerde]

I believe she was taken up the wooden ladder, body rested on top of the tank, perp climbed up ontop of tank, opened hatch and lowered her in.

I think this would be the easiest, too.

 

[TheRoger]

Look at the photo on the top of this page. The red/orange blob near the firefighter looks a lot different.

[ame="http://www.mustangworld.com/forums/showthread.php?p=12088109"]Anyone stay at this hotel? Dead body found in WATER TANK... - Mustang Forum - Mustang World[/ame]

Also this photo must have been taken early on as the tent has not been set up yet. in the right center looks like they are standing around a focal point of that small red canopy. Also some tarps or textiles of some sort are ont he ground under the AC unit. Also a 2x6 and some broken piping/antennas are visible in the photo.