CA/Canada - Elisa Lam - 21 years old - Los Angeles/Vancouver - 31-Jan-2013 - #5

[samevo8]

While the possibility of a connection between the two deaths (EL and Newport Beach girl) is unlikely, I did see the following update

"The cause of death was being withheld pending the results of toxicology tests."
http://www.swrnn.com/2013/03/06/newport-beach-death-of-woman-found-on-beach-called-suspicious/

Since autopsy was apparently performed yesterday on NB girl, I'm assuming the results are inconclusive (I read somewhere there were no obvious signs of external trauma.)

For another thread, I'm sure, but some other group of folks will be waiting for toxicology test results now.

That being said, the way the police have released info on both these deaths is not typical of an accidental death/suicide which leads me to deduce that there is way more than meets the eye here and a possible link. Read the first article released on the Newport body and subsitute in your mind the beach for a water tank and it reads almost exactly the same as the first aticle after Lams body was found.

 

[Myst]

I wondered how soon they figured out that something was really wrong. Her sister first makes a twitter message that she is missing on Feb 5 but they probably knew much sooner.

You would think the hotel would have known something was wrong by the night of the 1st or by the night of the 2nd at the latest.

Agreed, they must have known much sooner. Have been trying to find a news report that mentions what date her family contacted the Vancouver police, who then contacted LAPD... but haven't found an exact date yet. Her family may have made the first contact with Vancouver PD as early as Feb 1st, but I dunno for sure.

The first presser from LAPD was on Feb 6, with news releases from MSM shortly after on the same day:

http://local.nixle.com/alert/4955529/

http://guardianlv.com/2013/02/los-angeles-canadian-citizen-missing-last-seen-at-downtown-hotel/

 

[Borris]

I've thought of that, certainly a possibility among many possibilities.



I also wondered about elevator tricks, it was a popular topic a year or so ago. Lots of talk in social media about what certain combinations of button pushing would accomplish

I had forgotten about the tricks until I saw her pushing those buttons. I wouldn't have thought of the elevator going to the roof until I saw this old photo of the fire department in that equipment room and realized that the elevators could be controlled from the top to avoid security cameras and to circumvent the locked doors.

old photo
http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/861436_10151263021342452_949708978_o.jpg

 

[noodled1]

I had forgotten about the tricks until I saw her pushing those buttons. I wouldn't have thought of the elevator going to the roof until I saw this old photo of the fire department in that equipment room and realized that the elevators could be controlled from the top to avoid security cameras and to circumvent the locked doors.

old photo
http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/861436_10151263021342452_949708978_o.jpg

It would be nice to have somebody actually go in that lower room and look around, take pics. The only pic we have they sort of stuck the camera close to the opening and clicked

 

[hello people]

Obviously all the "connections" & odd things surrounding this case are mind boggling. But the thing I found really frightening is that the Chinese media figured out she was on the 14th floor in the video, & "The Night Stalker" was believed to be staying on that floor as well. Creepy to say the least.

Most buildings in Hong Kong don't even have a 4th or 14th or even 24th floor etc...because the word for 4 in cantonese sounds like death...bad luck

Spooky

 

[Godsdog]

Do you mean the released video? I don't know if that is the last sighting of her or the last video they have. Could be but I don't know.

Maybe they only went to the places that were close to somewhere that the dogs game them an alert.

They might have not gone in every room because they couldn't without asking. I think they can't go in your residence without a search warrant. So any of those guys who live there full time could say no. But still, they can ask. If anybody said no, you'd know that was suspicious.

Really, they should have checked every single room in the place, even the empty ones, don't you think? But maybe they relied on the dogs to be efficient. I guess a good scent dog should be able to track what areas she went into or didn't, right?

Good point, they haven't actually said, as far as I know, that it's the last video they have of her. I'm guessing it is because they'd want people to know what she was last wearing, but maybe I'm wrong.

You're right too that someone reported they didn't check every room because of lack of a search warrant. But did they check all the vacant rooms? With so many vacant rooms in that hotel?

 

[TheRoger]

Apparently it is more important for the Chinese public to be informed about the death of a Canadian girl in America than it for the North American public. I watched a lengthy interview with a pr guy for the lapd in which he describes the reason for releasing the video, the status of the hatch. And other topics that they are silent on in the na news.

 

[BlueShoe]

Hello Everyone. What an interesting discussion. Like others, I was drawn into thinking about this case after viewing the very odd elevator footage. Although many issues have intrigued me, I would like to focus on one that I've got some questions about.

Where are her glasses? Have they been found, and, if so, where? As a near-sighted person, I would never travel without my glasses. Most glasses wearers undoubtedly do the same. Even if you wear contacts, the glasses are still a backup. I'm assuming that Elisa traveled with her glasses.

1. Did she leave them in her room? If so, I think she planned on leaving her room for just a short time. Maybe she was going to the bathroom, and perhaps the one on her floor was dirty or occupied, so she went up to the 14th. I'm assuming she was not staying on that floor, since then she would not be trying to take the elevator down, unless she wanted to get to the lobby because of a problem. Or she was sleepwalking.

2. Did she leave them on the roof, or possibly lose them there? If she was there with someone and things got creepy, she might hurry off without them. Or if she lost them, she might go to the lobby to get help in finding them. But then why would she press all the buttons? Even if she could not see them, she would know the lobby buttons would be near the bottom.

3. Did she leave them in another hotel room? Possibly on the 14th or 15th floor. If she was interested in and flirting with someone and things turned unpleasant, she might choose to leave ASAP and just leave her glasses.

4. Did she leave them in a shower room? If she got spooked when preparing to take a shower, she might have abandoned them there.

Or was she wearing contacts during the video? That seems unlikely because of the way she bends down to make out the numbers on the elevator buttons.

I guess there is no way to tell, but number 1 or 3 seem most likely to me. Any thoughts?

 

[jetsetsam]

"Mesaverde and Samevo8 have made convincing arguments that an average size guy could have carried a petite LE up two ladders to the water tank"

Maybe for you, but it hasn't changed my mind that they couldn't.

I spent 10 years climbing up and down verical ladders on old buildings, and the video substantiated what I already knew. An average guy couldn't carry a 115 lb limp body up a 12 ft vertical ladder.

It's not just the weight. It's also the bulk of the body on your shoulder, between you and the ladder, and the limited use of the hand steadying the body.

But if people want to keep pushing the viability of that scenario, go ahead, do your own video.

Buy a cheap pair of cloth cover alls, cinch off the leg and arm cuffs with zip strips and fill the cover alls with sand until it weighs 115 lbs, and then close off the neck with another zip strip. Then throw it over the shoulder of your average guy boyfriend and have him climb up a 12 foot vertical ladder attached to a building or structure.

 

[tapu]

I have a theory as to why LE choose to release that video. LAPD has a bad reputation. There have been many accusations regurading their competancy (and other complaints) over the years. My theory is that they wanted to plant the idea in people's mind that of psychosis causing Elisa to put herself in that tank so that if the corener is unable to determine a cause of death or even determines suicide that public will be less likley to be outraged. I think without that video the idea of someone putting themselves into that tank and dying sounds idiotic. The Video however does alow for that possibility. This is just my theory it could be all wrong. I mean they could have just released a frame from that video for identification purposes they released the whole video because I think they wanted that behavior seen.

mjak

Let me get this straight. You think the cops weren't thinking about solving the crime in the first few days. They were, instead, coming up with ways to cover up possible solutions to the case that, though true, might not go over as plausible to the public, which would make them angry. Have I captured your thoughts on this correctly?

 

[BlueShoe]

Hello Everyone. What an interesting discussion. Like others, I was drawn into thinking about this case after viewing the very odd elevator footage. Although many issues have intrigued me, I would like to focus on one that I've got some questions about.

Where are her glasses? Have they been found, and, if so, where? As a near-sighted person, I would never travel without my glasses. Most glasses wearers undoubtedly do the same. Even if you wear contacts, the glasses are still a backup. I'm assuming that Elisa traveled with her glasses.

1. Did she leave them in her room? If so, I think she planned on leaving her room for just a short time. Maybe she was going to the bathroom, and perhaps the one on her floor was dirty or occupied, so she went up to the 14th. I'm assuming she was not staying on that floor, since then she would not be trying to take the elevator down, unless she wanted to get to the lobby because of a problem. Or she was sleepwalking.

2. Did she leave them on the roof, or possibly lose them there? If she was there with someone and things got creepy, she might hurry off without them. Or if she lost them, she might go to the lobby to get help in finding them. But then why would she press all the buttons? Even if she could not see them, she would know the lobby buttons would be near the bottom.

3. Did she leave them in another hotel room? Possibly on the 14th or 15th floor. If she was interested in and flirting with someone and things turned unpleasant, she might choose to leave ASAP and just leave her glasses.

4. Did she leave them in a shower room? If she got spooked when preparing to take a shower, she might have abandoned them there.

Or was she wearing contacts during the video? That seems unlikely because of the way she bends down to make out the numbers on the elevator buttons.

I guess there is no way to tell, but number 1 or 3 seem most likely to me. Any thoughts?:seeya:

 

[sugarpooper]

This will be my last analysis on the graffiti pictures taken by the Chinese media. "PHIOE" is a regular there. He has 4 taggings on the rooftop, One in white on the satellite, One written on the door with his finger, & One on the top of little roof, & The group tagging dated 2013. This means Phioe & His friends were more than likely up there during the month of January. MISK with a heart is a lady friend of Phioes. Perhaps Phioe has nothing to do with this case, But at the very least he most certainly frequents that rooftop, & atleast once during January too.

http://img3.laibafile.cn/p/m/134571586.jpg

http://img3.laibafile.cn/p/m/134571607.jpg (Yes the top tagging is his too)

I took a screenshot from the Rooftop video of the white drawing under the water tanks. What an odd drawing.
http://i49.tinypic.com/osyg6f.jpg (2+12=14)

 

[Conductor71]

Hello Everyone. What an interesting discussion. Like others, I was drawn into thinking about this case after viewing the very odd elevator footage. Although many issues have intrigued me, I would like to focus on one that I've got some questions about.

Where are her glasses? Have they been found, and, if so, where? As a near-sighted person, I would never travel without my glasses. Most glasses wearers undoubtedly do the same. Even if you wear contacts, the glasses are still a backup. I'm assuming that Elisa traveled with her glasses.

I hesitate in answering this because the glasses seem to be a point of contention for some. This statement is from CBS local LA the day the video was released:

According to the Facebook page “Find Elisa Lam,” the Vancouver native does not have her glasses with her.


My understanding is that she did not have her glasses with her on this trip. Period. Meaning they were likely home (conjecture on my part).

Most others see it as she did not have them when she was last seen though I don't know why they just would not be more direct and say as much to the public as this sends message she may or may not be wearing her glasses.

http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2013/02/13/lapd-hoping-new-video-will-lead-to-missing-canadian-woman/

Oh, several here also find the source suspect; I see it as it may help given what little "official" info has been released.

 

[noodled1]

"Mesaverde and Samevo8 have made convincing arguments that an average size guy could have carried a petite LE up two ladders to the water tank"

Maybe for you, but it hasn't changed my mind that they couldn't.

I spent 10 years climbing up and down verical ladders on old buildings, and the video substantiated what I already knew. An average guy couldn't carry a 115 lb limp body up a 12 ft vertical ladder.

It's not just the weight. It's also the bulk of the body on your shoulder, between you and the ladder, and the limited use of the hand steadying the body.

But if people want to keep pushing the viability of that scenario, go ahead, do your own video.

Buy a cheap pair of cloth cover alls, cinch off the leg and arm cuffs with zip strips and fill the cover alls with sand until it weighs 115 lbs, and then close off the neck with another zip strip. Then throw it over the shoulder of your average guy boyfriend and have him climb up a 12 foot vertical ladder attached to a building or structure.

Depends on the person. There are people that could easily heft 115 pounds up a ladder that short. My uncle (RIP) used to heft 100 pound hay bales up a 20 foot ladder one handed when he was in his 60's.

Just because you couldn't do it doesn't mean there are not people that can. In the end I think it depends more on how badly you want to get whatever you're carrying up the ladder and 115 pounds isn't some unheard of amount of weight to overcome.

Easy? probably not, impossible? defiantly not impossible. She did after all end up in the water tank somehow and saying that there's no way she could be carried up there is not giving proper analysis to the situation.

 

[BlueShoe]

According to the Facebook page “Find Elisa Lam,” the Vancouver native does not have her glasses with her.

Maybe she lost them at some point during the trip. I had not thought of that. I still think most people with really bad vision do have a pair of glasses along even if they rarely wear them.

Thanks for the info.

 

[jetsetsam]

Depends on the person. There are people that could easily heft 115 pounds up a ladder that short. My uncle (RIP) used to heft 100 pound hay bales up a 20 foot ladder one handed when he was in his 60's.

Just because you couldn't do it doesn't mean there are not people that can. In the end I think it depends more on how badly you want to get whatever you're carrying up the ladder and 115 pounds isn't some unheard of amount of weight to overcome.

Easy? probably not, impossible? defiantly not impossible. She did after all end up in the water tank somehow and saying that there's no way she could be carried up there is not giving proper analysis to the situation.

Oh ya? Well my dead uncle could swing a mountain lion around his head while he was walking to school in his bare feet through the snows of the Rocky Mountains.

Arrgh!

But neither example lends any further support to the supposition that an average guy could carry a 115 lb limp body up a 12 ft vertical ladder.

There is twine or wire around a bale of hay that your uncle could hold onto and use to balance the bale against his thigh as he climbed the ladder. And was your uncle really climbing up a vertical ladder, or was it the usual angled ladder on the outside of the barn?

OK, it wasn't a mountain lion. It was a big lynx.

 

[noodled1]

OK, it wasn't a mountain lion. It was a big lynx.

was it dead?

 

[Borris]

Ah, you look grasshopper, you do not see ...


http://storage.canoe.ca/v1/dynamic_...L.jpg?quality=80&size=650x&stmp=1361335188631

http://nationalpostnews.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/water-tank.jpg?w=620

http://media.10news.com/photo/2013/02/20/elisa_lam_tank_body_1361398653257_376923_ver1.0_320_240.jpg

http://privateofficernews.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/09.jpg

http://c498390.r90.cf2.rackcdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/WaterTank-500x281.jpg

I'll send you my research invoice in the mail. I accept PayPal

Ha ha! Good find, Po! It was in the first photo. It shows that the other lid was closed when they removed her body. And my photo shows that this other lid was left opened after they washed out the tanks. In that photo, the condition of EL's tank receptacle, suggests that it was often left open. Maybe the worker's habit is to leave the lids off. But then why would he lie to LE that the lid was closed when he found the body? This detail only matters if she killed herself, because LE are dusting the lid for her prints.

If she committed suicide, she had to open the lid to enter the tank.

 

[hello people]

If she committed suicide, she had to open the lid to enter the tank.

Open the whole lid...or the square hatch in the lid?

It looks like it would have been quite the job to remove all the pipes and conduits from the top of the lid

 

[Borris]

Open the whole lid...or the square hatch in the lid?

It looks like it would have been quite the job to remove all the pipes and conduits from the top of the lid

In news reports, the LAPD refer to the small hatch as the lid.