The Elevator Video: What's your take?

[OCSlacker]

Expert thinks she is under voluntary/Forced effect of drug escatsy

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/articles/444322/20130310/canadian-woman-elisa-lam-death-cecil-hotel.htm

In the article Porrata states, " she's petting something and dancing a bit". I have never viewed the video and thought she was petting something or dancing. It seems odd to me that so many people who are professionals in the medical field view these actions that way. To me she looks like a nervous girl who is very animated when she speaks and she can simply be explaining what has happened with the lift etc.

Yes, I suppose if it looked to me as though she were petting air and dancing in the hall I would think drugs or a mental break but I just don't see it that way at all.

Her movements are purposeful, even her back to the wall/elevator door seems intentional and her actions seem very calculated and thought out, mind you spur of the moment thought out but still intentional. she isn't trying to "pet , dance or speak to imaginary people" when she is inside the elevator. If they determine that she had a psychotic break I guess I should start seeing a shrink, because I can see myself acting that way if in an unfamiliar area and I get a bit frightened. They say 1 in 4 people are crazy and if you can't point out the person you know as being the one, then it's you.

 

[tapu]

I have reassuring news for three of you.

 

[OCSlacker]

I have reassuring news for three of you.

hahahaha, that was funny! :floorlaugh:

 

[Redbird]

At first I thought she was high on something but the more I play the video, the more I think she is talking to someone and afraid. The little "dance" she does in and out of the elevator is not her acting crazy. She is trying to trip (or not) the elevator door. I have played it over and over and over to see her hand gestures and try to figure out what she is saying. She motions toward someone to her right as if to say, "Come on by, come on by." She presses her open hand against her breast as if to say, "Who me? or "Not me." After we see her hand over her head I swear there is something in her hand. It almost looks like she is peeling it. Maybe it is her key card since she must have had it with her. At this point she is reacting to her left and her right as if there are two people in the hallway with her. Would like to hear others thoughts.

 

[BlueShoe]

After we see her hand over her head I swear there is something in her hand.

I'm glad I'm not the only one seeing this. Either she is holding something or someone is holding her hand and she is trying to peel that hand away.

 

[kingsway]

In the article Porrata states, " she's petting something and dancing a bit". I have never viewed the video and thought she was petting something or dancing. It seems odd to me that so many people who are professionals in the medical field view these actions that way. To me she looks like a nervous girl who is very animated when she speaks and she can simply be explaining what has happened with the lift etc.

Yes, I suppose if it looked to me as though she were petting air and dancing in the hall I would think drugs or a mental break but I just don't see it that way at all.

Her movements are purposeful, even her back to the wall/elevator door seems intentional and her actions seem very calculated and thought out, mind you spur of the moment thought out but still intentional. she isn't trying to "pet , dance or speak to imaginary people" when she is inside the elevator. If they determine that she had a psychotic break I guess I should start seeing a shrink, because I can see myself acting that way if in an unfamiliar area and I get a bit frightened. They say 1 in 4 people are crazy and if you can't point out the person you know as being the one, then it's you.

You see, the problem with all these "experts" is that they only see what they have experience in.

Déformation professionnelle is a French phrase, meaning a tendency to look at things from the point of view of one's own profession rather than from a broader perspective. It is often translated as "professional deformation" or "job conditioning". The implication is that professional training, and its related socialization, often result in a distortion of the way one views the world

None of these experts have any experience in interpreting hand gestures in a video with no sound, and such a narrow angle. A psychiatric nurse who sees many psychotic patients a day, will relate that those gestures look like someone she's seen in the ward. A drug club expert will relate to someone they've seen on ecstasy. But there's not enough information in the video to draw a likely conclusion, so these people, without sufficient context to interpret Elisa's behavior, make up their own context - to satisfy their own interest.

 

[BlueShoe]

I've got one more elevator question (my last of the day, I promise). In all the re-enactments and re-creations of the elevator ride (by the Chinese team and others) the button for the tenth floor glows red. I don't see any of the buttons glowing red in the original video. Was that button removed and changed? Or do I just have poor eyesight?

 

[Doruk]

You see, the problem with all these "experts" is that they only see what they have experience in.



None of these experts have any experience in interpreting hand gestures in a video with no sound, and such a narrow angle. A psychiatric nurse who sees many psychotic patients a day, will relate that those gestures look like someone she's seen in the ward. A drug club expert will relate to someone they've seen on ecstasy. But there's not enough information in the video to draw a likely conclusion, so these people, without sufficient context to interpret Elisa's behavior, make up their own context - to satisfy their own interest.

Clear case of Pots calling kettles black. And no, I am not an expert.

 

[jp111]

I'm convinced that there is someone to her left. The reason is that at around 1:25 in the video, if you watch the bottom of her skirt/shorts, it goes down about an inch or so. At first I did not see that but close watching shows this happening.

The position of her hands behind her head makes it unlikely that she tugs her skorts down. Both hands seem to be behind her head. We know she never lowers her right hand because that elbow is in view. It is not likely she lowers the other hand either, because of the position of her arms when she enters the elevator. Therefore, there is someone there who tugs her skirt/shorts down slightly.

I interpret this as someone reaching into her pocket, perhaps looking for her room key, which he may obtain. Her room key is probably in her pocket since we never see it in her hand and she is not carrying anything.

I can't remember seeing much discussion on why/how her shorts go down in this way. I see it a clue that there is probably someone there. My opinion, but I'm reasonably certain of this one.

IMO, I always thought there was someone on the left of the elevator.

Her odd gestures while standing on the left of the elevator was due to her being frisked or groped by a person.

I didn't notice her shorts moved down a bit while her arms were up until you pointed it out.

It does look to me her pants did come down couple inches.

IMO, after she stepped back in the elevator from dashing out to check the hallway, the person at the left may have appeared. Since she could see the person from the mirror from where she stood, she moved to the corner in order to stay out of the view of the person.

At first the person may have questioned her for being there during that time of the night. Later, she was ordered to step out of the elevator and move closer to him, all along the person deliberately stayed out of the lens of the CCTV. (Her playful attitude in hopping out and so was probably at the moment she still didn’t feel any serious threat.)

IMO, she was being asked to put her hands on her head, she probably explained to the person why she was there and the person frisked her and let her leave.

However the person may have changed his mind and kept the elevator door opened by pressing the button.

The elevator door wouldn’t close, she was being asked to step out from the elevator again.

At this point the person frisked her again and groped her, he may have asked her if she took anything or where is her cell phone, that is why she did the open handed gesture. (She turned her body to avoid the person but was talking and explaining to him at the same time.)

After that the person started to grope her more. That is why she had those “counting fingers” and knee bending gestures.

She was later being lead or pulled away.

Of course this is only my speculation.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

I'm sorry but I immediately think she's under the influence of either ecstasy, roofies, synthetic marijuana, crack, meth, etc, etc.

Just my opinion only, of course.:twocents:

 

[wfgodot]

I do not notice nor do I intuit the presence of any "perp" at any point during the video.

 

[tapu]

I can't imagine concluding or even strongly believing that any of those conditions could be identified based on some jumping, dancing, and hand waving.

 

[Redbird]

I can't imagine concluding or even strongly believing that any of those conditions could be identified based on some jumping, dancing, and hand waving.

Best comment yet:clap:

 

[noodled1]

I can't imagine concluding or even strongly believing that any of those conditions could be identified based on some jumping, dancing, and hand waving.

me either, but here we are...lol

I've actually come to see the elevator as almost a red herring until we know what happened to her after the video ends.... what we're seeing only leads to speculation to stack on top of more speculation of what happens afterward.

If we were ever to find out such and such happened at this time and it was so many minutes/days after she left the video then we'd have direction but until then there's really nothing that can be gleaned from trying to interpret the video.

we don't even know how long she died after the video was taken and we don't have a specific time for the video itself. for all we know her death could have come 5 minutes after the video or up to several days if not more

 

[Jan]

In part of the video, if looks like to me that she is bending each finger back in the way that some people do to crack their knuckles. I have seen people do that many times when they are nervous.

 

[nerdy]

Hey everyone! I've been interested in this case and for some reason not been to WS to check out the chatter about it til now. I live in the neighborhood (verrrry close to the hotel). I've watched the video several times and from the very first time I saw it, thought she was playing hide-and-seek or tag with someone. Maybe high, maybe not. I always assumed there was another person out of view she was communicating with.

 

[Conductor71]

Expert thinks she is under voluntary/Forced effect of drug escatsy

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/articles/444322/20130310/canadian-woman-elisa-lam-death-cecil-hotel.htm

MDMA does not; however, commonly include hallucinations.

The effects of MDMA can be described as those of a hallucinogenic amphetamine, combining some effects of amphetamine (ie, speed) with that of LSD (ie, acid). However, many of the effects are dose dependent, and auditory and/or visual hallucinations are not commonly observed from E Medscape

Note this list highlighting short term effects (20 min to 6 hours) of MDMA from CESAR:

Anxiety or paranoia
Extreme Relaxation
Blurred vision or nystagmus - rapid quivering of the pupils (while the user is feeling peak effects)

This for me sums up what I see in the video. She sees to me that part of her fear may be realizing that she has been drugged and given that ecstasy makes one all feel mellow and less inhibited; this is why she is not freaking out. Given the weird extremes in body language (alternating exaggeratedly relaxed or over fluid movement followed by body stiffening and "hiding" - Not to mention her need to observe the elevator buttons.

Quite honestly, I must say that can explain why she looks purposeful and odd at the same time with the buttons. I never have thought it was her eyesight but see that ecstasy would take what was happening and make ultra heighten her senses.

I do not think she would have taken drugs recreationally, but this could have easily been slipped to her. And the perp takes on a whole new level of evil. If he did slip her that drug, maybe he did it so she would not be fearful, run, or scream. That gives me the chills.

 

[sugarpooper]

In the article Porrata states, "she's petting something and dancing a bit". I have never viewed the video and thought she was petting something or dancing. It seems odd to me that so many people who are professionals in the medical field view these actions that way.

When I first saw the video, one of the first things I thought was she might be on Ecstasy.
& This is coming from someone that took hundreds a few years back.

 

[SplishSplash]

When I first saw the video, one of the first things I thought was she might be on Ecstasy.
& This is coming from someone that took hundreds a few years back.

Aagghhhhh I've been trying to keep my big mouth shut on this for a while but I can't on this one. The quality of ecstasy must have degraded vastly since 8-10 years ago if you think she is on it. I had my fill of the stuff too but come on!

There is no way she would not be feeling her sweater, dancing around constantly, twirling in those pants/skirt things I know that material its amazing NOT on ecstasy, feeling her clothes, she would not have just pressed the buttons furiously and moved on, she would be staring at them in wonder, she would have gotten preoccupied with all over her surroundings, the floor, the carpet, the walls, textures, she does the ONE move I could see related to ecstasy with her hand movements when she is facing right, yes it feels very nice on that chemical to move your body through the air, but she would not have been so incredibly still and composed the rest of the time...not to sound rude I just can NOT see it

 

[SplishSplash]

I'm sorry but I immediately think she's under the influence of either ecstasy, roofies, synthetic marijuana, crack, meth, etc, etc.

Just my opinion only, of course.:twocents:

Ecstasy: See above post.
LSD/Mushrooms/Any varience therof: She would have gotten enraptured with the floor design, the reflective elevator walls, the mirror outside...pretty much everything she could not be SO still, her head SO still. She would have gotten lost in her own little world, she looks composed and sober to me.
Roofies: She would have looked absolutely blacked out drunk and severely inebriated.
Synthetic Marijuana: Makes most people lay down, or pass out. Ive seen both.
Crack: She is being too still.
Meth: Yes paranoia would come with it but she would be fiddling with her nails and not that still.