***Day 3 -Committal Hearing*** 11th,12,13th March 2013

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In relation to the partners giving GBC an ultimatum, they would be well within their rights to protect the interests of the business. I would say that the actions of GBC had a profoundly detrimental affect on the business. IMO his affair would have taken him away from the office frequently and perhaps he was using business funds to conduct his affair. Not to mention the awkward situation he put his partners in, knowing what he was up to behind Allison's back and the effect this would have had on the morale in the office. MOO
 
Yeah, that bugged me a little. What right do business partners have to give, what appears to be an ultimatum regarding the personal life of a business partner? It was affecting the business somehow, clearly but in what way?

I would think it very reasonable for business partners - investment partners - to be concerned over something that could affect the business and its finances.
That could be anything involving the affair from-
affecting reputation of the agency (partner and colleague having alleged affair
ridicule / disharmony amongst staff and fellow-industry people
other business owners feeling of lack of respectibility amongst greater community esp the business leaders.

I would suspect if Allison had become involved in financial dealings she may well have been a guarantor of company borrowings for the business, perhaps she would have been less inclined to sign anything further once she knew of the affair.

In general, I would think a reasonable person would say to a business partner, bet your life straight mate, this can't go on.... coverup phonecalls? love nests in empty properties (sorry just my imagination) who knows what went on
 
Just saw OW's desperate "statement"... Bit late to speak up now isn't it????
 
well, its rather odd that Mr Davies would say that, he chooses whom he is going to question, why call someone to the committal who you think will 'sink the boot'?? the prosecutor merely makes sure these people currently being questioned turn up with a working knowledge of their statements they made to the police. He doesnt choose them.

a sort of pitiful complaint, really. hardly logical.

Maybe just attempting to make it look like the partner has 'an agenda' for being a witness?
EDIT: Snap, Mystique and Linette
 
However, numerous sources spoke for the first time to reveal how the affair unravelled publicly long before Allison’s disappearance.

Staff reported spotting Mr Baden-Clay leaving Ms McHugh’s home after hours.

As the suspected relationship became a frequent discussion topic there was disquiet over perceptions that Ms McHugh received preferential treatment with new property listings.

“People saw them at events together. People saw them at dinners together. People had dinners with them together. It wasn’t a well kept secret,” said one person with intimate knowledge of the situation.

“I was shocked. Gerard’s history was of integrity and honesty. It was not something you could have suspected he could have been capable of being involved in. I had put him on a moral pedestal.”
Sunday Mail

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...ague-toni-mchugh/story-e6freuy9-1226361120004
 
JF seemed to blame the downfall of the partnership on TM. Was she meaning that he was distracted, spending too much time and/or money on her? I would love to know what JF meant by that statement.

me too! not really sure how his affair affected the business, was it financially, if so why? or was it because staff were upset he was cheating and didnt feel comfortable in that environment?
cant believe he was talking about needing a bigger car! was he planning on getting rid of allison and having his daughters live with him and tm, a big happy brady bunch!!?
 
me too! not really sure how his affair affected the business, was it financially, if so why? or was it because staff were upset he was cheating and didnt feel comfortable in that environment?
cant believe he was talking about needing a bigger car! was he planning on getting rid of allison and having his daughters live with him and tm, a big happy brady bunch!!?


BBM. I think that is exactly what the police believe is one of his motives in killing Allison, that and the life insurances.
 
The payment would have been due in June last year - with a 3 month extension if he needed it. Before that deadline was up, he was already in jail on remand and there was effectively no business left to 'revert' back to her. Selling for $1 would be a much less stressful way of doing your $180k than being a part owner of a bankrupted business I would think.

RLTP or anyone with knowledge in this area are you able to explain how it works when a rent roll is sold? Are there contracts in place with the various landlords to manage the properties for a certain period? If no contracts, what's to stop any landlord from getting annoyed that they've been 'sold on', and taking their business elsewhere?
 
I just had a window of opportunity, as they say.
I'm an (unconfirmed) Qld lawyer, semi retired, long time since law school, and never much involved in criminal work.
But I wish that it could be stressed that we are not seeing the prosecution case in public. There are hundreds of witness statements in the form of affidavits and stat decs that have been presented to the magistrate.
This is only a committal and the purpose of these few days PUBLIC days is for the defence, to have the opportunity to challenge the evidence of whatever witnesses it has been mutually agreed on. ONLY THOSE.
I mean, there may be plenty of other statements that go along the same line or similar, and the weight of those combined, will be for a jury to decide on, if the matter goes to trial.
So, we are NOT seeing the prosectution case, that will come if/when a trial, and that WILL be presented in a logical order at the decision of the prosecution.
We may NOT see all the parties that people think are interesting in this case, either because they are potential witnesses, or their statements have not so far been challenged.
As to the role of the defense and prosecution, please don't give them little "good" and "bad" hats.
The underlying principle in this land is that we don't have a kangaroo court or a gang of deputies go and string someone up (though I do miss those westerns from my youth!)
The system of law requires that a person be found guilty beyond reasonable doubt.
The Defence lawyers are not OBLIGED to ask the defendant whether they are innocent or guilty. If a defendant confesses, other rules apply.

But the Defendant has the right to have the evidence against them tested, as to there being sound testimony, evidence, reliable, no prejudice, no bias.

No dreams of screams, no mis-timings, no imaginations, no later recalls.

A lawyer is an officer of the court - they take an oath to uphold justice just as if they were a magistrate or judge. That's what you say and sign up for.

So, there are ethical rules as to what you can and can't do in the interests of your client, whether you know (or even suspect) they may be guilty.

You are entitled to investigate any witness for accuracy and truthfullness, especially if there are discrepancies

You are entitled to question someone's motives in giving evidence

and .... such

You are allowed to bring into question, other possibilities, but you are not allowed to blame another specific person, without evidence.

So to my mind, and without being there, the defence is doing, what they need to do

AND ITS ONLY A COMMITTAL HEARING YOU ARE NOT LIKELY TO SEE ANY OF THE WITNESSES YOU WANT TO UNTIL THE TRIAL.

Sorry so long I'll flip off now
 
Just got back on. Here are 9 new tweets:
Kate Kyriacou ‏@KateKyriacou
Ms Frost said main reason business partnership fell apart was because of Baden-Clay's affair with former staffer Toni McHugh. #badenclay
Kate Kyriacou ‏@KateKyriacou
''We asked him to either leave his wife or leave Toni or we wouldn't continue on'' - Jocelyn Frost. #badenclay
Kate Kyriacou ‏@KateKyriacou
Jocelyn Frost becoming quite agitated when asked exactly what Baden-Clay told her about his intentions with Ms McHugh. #badenclay
Kate Kyriacou ‏@KateKyriacou
The other business partner, Phillip Broom, on now. #badenclay
Kate Kyriacou ‏@KateKyriacou
Phillip Broom is talking about when he bought into Baden-Clay's real estate business, when it moved to new premises etc #badenclay
Kate Kyriacou ‏@KateKyriacou
Baden-Clay told business partner he needed a bigger car with room enough for his children and his lover's children. #badenclay
Kate Kyriacou ‏@KateKyriacou
''You're here to sink the boot, aren't you?'' - defence barrister to Baden-Clay former business partner Phillip Broom.
Kate Kyriacou ‏@KateKyriacou
At some point Gerard was leaving his wife to be with Toni, at other points he was leaving Toni to be with his wife - Mr Broom. #badenclay
Kate Kyriacou ‏@KateKyriacou
And that's all for today - we're adjourned until next Monday. I'll be back in court at 9.30am with continued coverage.
 
Office affairs can be kept quite secret, GBC obviously talked about it with all and sundry, doesn't show a lot of respect for any of the women in his life, and it must have been particularly awful for Alison to have work in that environment.

The car? room for the lovers children? I though Toni McHughs children were quite grown up, I don't think many children old enough to understand what was going on would be jumping in the backseat to go on outings withMum and their "new Dad"
 
Yeah, that bugged me a little. What right do business partners have to give, what appears to be an ultimatum regarding the personal life of a business partner? It was affecting the business somehow, clearly but in what way?

Just saw OW's desperate "statement"... Bit late to speak up now isn't it????

Haven't seen it so can't commet on that. This Friday is against bullying.. Wear orange.

Hold your horses here.. I think OW could give a talk on resliency.
Pathways may be having a group with proceeds going to their prefered charity.
 
RLTP or anyone with knowledge in this area are you able to explain how it works when a rent roll is sold? Are there contracts in place with the various landlords to manage the properties for a certain period? If no contracts, what's to stop any landlord from getting annoyed that they've been 'sold on', and taking their business elsewhere?

I don't have the expertise to answer that Tishy I'm sorry. I know a bit about business, but not Real Estate in particular - nor rent roll's for that matter.
I have had properties managed though - and yes, I signed a contract to have my property managed for 12 months by a RE company and they did sell their company during that time and my property manager moved over to the new company and continued to manage my property. hope that helps. hopefully someone with more intricate RE knowledge will be able to answer more fully. :)
 
I just had a window of opportunity, as they say.
I'm an (unconfirmed) Qld lawyer, semi retired, long time since law school, and never much involved in criminal work.
But I wish that it could be stressed that we are not seeing the prosecution case in public. There are hundreds of witness statements in the form of affidavits and stat decs that have been presented to the magistrate.
This is only a committal and the purpose of these few days PUBLIC days is for the defence, to have the opportunity to challenge the evidence of whatever witnesses it has been mutually agreed on. ONLY THOSE.
I mean, there may be plenty of other statements that go along the same line or similar, and the weight of those combined, will be for a jury to decide on, if the matter goes to trial.
So, we are NOT seeing the prosectution case, that will come if/when a trial, and that WILL be presented in a logical order at the decision of the prosecution.
We may NOT see all the parties that people think are interesting in this case, either because they are potential witnesses, or their statements have not so far been challenged.
As to the role of the defense and prosecution, please don't give them little "good" and "bad" hats.
The underlying principle in this land is that we don't have a kangaroo court or a gang of deputies go and string someone up (though I do miss those westerns from my youth!)
The system of law requires that a person be found guilty beyond reasonable doubt.
The Defence lawyers are not OBLIGED to ask the defendant whether they are innocent or guilty. If a defendant confesses, other rules apply.

But the Defendant has the right to have the evidence against them tested, as to there being sound testimony, evidence, reliable, no prejudice, no bias.

No dreams of screams, no mis-timings, no imaginations, no later recalls.

A lawyer is an officer of the court - they take an oath to uphold justice just as if they were a magistrate or judge. That's what you say and sign up for.

So, there are ethical rules as to what you can and can't do in the interests of your client, whether you know (or even suspect) they may be guilty.

You are entitled to investigate any witness for accuracy and truthfullness, especially if there are discrepancies

You are entitled to question someone's motives in giving evidence

and .... such

You are allowed to bring into question, other possibilities, but you are not allowed to blame another specific person, without evidence.

So to my mind, and without being there, the defence is doing, what they need to do

AND ITS ONLY A COMMITTAL HEARING YOU ARE NOT LIKELY TO SEE ANY OF THE WITNESSES YOU WANT TO UNTIL THE TRIAL.

Sorry so long I'll flip off now

Excellent post thank you nowvoyager.
 
What surprises me is that GBC wanted to enter politics. I'm surprised, given his history and supposed flings. Not a great candidate in my eyes, particularly given how politicians and their private lives are scrutinised so much nowadays.
 
Hi all. I was in court today. Very interesting indeed. Just thought I'd offer a few general comments & observations as the important details have already been reported via Twitter.

The injuries on GBC's face & chest were much worse than I imagined. I'm even more astounded that he thought he'd get away with it - looking like that when his wife has just gone missing! Not that that in itself suggests guilt, of course.

It looks like the fatal overdose angle has been put to bed, thanks to Dr Hoskins.

The cross-examinations of the expert witnesses regarding the wounds this morning were lengthy & seemed to go in circles at times as Davis tried his best to discredit or trip them up (I guess that's his job) but they definitely held their own. I certainly wouldn't want to be cross-examined by him though.

Classic moment of the day was A/Prof. Wells (when asked what, other than fingernails, could have caused the injuries) responding: "I might leave that to you" - a little cheek to let Davis know he's aware of what he is up to.

Boyle wasn't saying much although I guess he doesn't have to - the witnesses are telling his story for him!

GBC's demeanour surprised me - he seemed relaxed & quite self-assured every time I saw him which was only a couple of times, and momentarily.

In the morning break I caught glimpses of OW talking to DM - she was quite animated, gesticulating, furrowed brow & standing up the whole time. I only just heard about her little chat with the media out the front. Surely she lies in bed at night & at least wonders if it is possible he did it?
 
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