Armchair psych profile and personal background

[dotr]

I agree that Magnotta deserves the best defense possible; frankly I believe everyone facing charges in Court deserves the best defense possible.

I apologize if my comment was misconstrued to be interpreted in a manner different than my original intent. I was responding to the notion that the clothing choice may have been to paint Magnotta as naive because most who have followed this case understand that if you exclude the crimes that he is facing trial for, there is still a mountain of evidence from long before and immediately after the murder to demonstrate that Magnotta is not naive in any way. A defense that might try to paint Magnotta as naive is not the best defense possible.

HastingsChi, I agree that painting Magnotta as naive (probably poor initial choice of word on my part) is ridiculous- but there must be some image that either LM or defence team want to present imo, turning up in jeans, teeshirt and sneakers is no accident in such a high profile case.

 

[HastingsChi]

Indeed. We need to remember that what is said in shaming people like Magnotta (who very much deserves it), can inadvertently resonate with others (who don't deserve it, like the other residents of Magnotta's apartment building).

For example, the Proactiv joke is something I heard more than once in high school. :blushing:

As usual, just :moo: and :twocents:. I apologize if I sounded preachy! Not my intention.

We have seen countless examples of Magnotta trying to convince others that the imaginary rich and famous lifestyle that he claimed to live existed only in his mind.

While I truly admire anyone who has a dream and goals of what they want to accomplish and through hard work and talent take the steps to move towards those goals and achieve their dreams; Magnotta never took any steps towards achieving that life, he simply lied to others that this imaginary life was the lifestyle of his reality when in reality the opposite was true.

It is from this understanding that I sometimes accentuate the reality of Magnotta's life in posts. When I refer to his apartment as a dump, it is not in judgement of the building or the residents but to help cement the reality that Luka claimed to be living this posh life and his reality was quite the opposite. The Proactiv joke is the same logic and used to highlight the idea that while Luka made extraordinary claims, beneath the surface many blemishes exist. Without being able to hide behind his computer screen and without the Proactiv, the dark, twisted reality of Luka is showcased for the world to see.

I hope that makes it easier to understand. Please know that such targeted comments are Magnotta-specific and should not be seen as a judgement or dig at anyone but Magnotta.

 

[HastingsChi]

HastingsChi, I agree that painting Magnotta as naive (probably poor initial choice of word on my part) is ridiculous- but there must be some image that either LM or defence team want to present imo, turning up in jeans, teeshirt and sneakers is no accident in such a high profile case.

I agree that something is up with the clothing choice. My take: Luka only cares about himself and the warped image of himself he invented. I think Luka made the decision of clothing because he's vain and likely thought he looked good in the outfit. His lawyers likely disagreed.

 

[HastingsChi]

"Heads up" ?
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Crime/2013/03/15/20658111.html

"A young man who bears a resemblance to Magnotta has been in the courtroom this week, identifying himself as Kyle from Raleigh, N.C.

The slightly-built, boyish-looking man with sharp features and short brown hair says he drove 1,400 km over three days to watch the hearing.

He sat in the seat closest to Magnotta in the public gallery Friday, gazing at him several times.

Magnotta did not return the gaze.

Court officials pulled the man aside at one point and spoke to him, asking questions about his well-being"

Thanks for sharing this article.

I have mixed emotions after reading this simply because in the US a lot of people make long journeys to attend high profile trials. It's a weird thing that people do but it is common with high profile cases in the US.

I'm concerned about the way the article tries to insinuate that this gentleman is mentally unstable. That isn't fair to this guy. No one should be judged for their support of the Crown or support for the defense especially when the defendant has not yet been convicted.

 

[matou]

Thanks for sharing this article.

I have mixed emotions after reading this simply because in the US a lot of people make long journeys to attend high profile trials. It's a weird thing that people do but it is common with high profile cases in the US.

I'm concerned about the way the article tries to insinuate that this gentleman is mentally unstable. That isn't fair to this guy. No one should be judged for their support of the Crown or support for the defense especially when the defendant has not yet been convicted.

Maybe there were other specific reasons not mentioned in the article for why the court officials questioned him? JMO Another article calls this guy a Luka supporter. I posted in the prelim. thread (Globe and Mail)

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

I also posted something about this LM fan in the prelim thread. He was sitting outside the courthouse waiting for the trial. He seems obsessed with LM. He also seems to not care what LM did (or not do). His only comment to the media was something about how cute LM looks.

Let's give the courtroom people and LE some credit. They didn't pull him aside for no reason.

:twocents:

 

[HastingsChi]

I also posted something about this LM fan in the prelim thread. He was sitting outside the courthouse waiting for the trial. He seems obsessed with LM. He also seems to not care what LM did (or not do). His only comment to the media was something about how cute LM looks.

Let's give the courtroom people and LE some credit. They didn't pull him aside for no reason.

:twocents:

While I admittedly don't understand those who become super fans of any side of any criminal trial, I think the article was irresponsible in insinuating that this guy is mentally ill without providing additional information to explain how the reporter or court employee reached this conclusion.

For reference, I'd define a high profile trial super fan as:
- Those with no connection to a case who travel long distances to attend court proceedings.
- Those who try to form personal relationships with a defendant/prosecution team member/victims family,
- Those who try to make life a living hell for a defendant who is not convicted, etc

 

[matou]

He's interviewed at the video link here:

http://www.globalnews.ca/victims+fa...of+the+magnotta+hearing/6442829353/story.html

 

[Sunday]

I'm just curious: What do you think his defence will be? I have read every single miniscule detail about this case, and for the life of me I cannot figure out how a not guilty plea is going to play out. The evidence is rock solid. I mean, they have his video as well as him captured on video dumping parts, mailing parts, fleeing the country, etc. There is no doubt he did it, so how can he argue that he is not guilty? He may argue that he was forced to do it, but wouldn't he have turned over a name by now, in which case we'd have heard something alluding to a second party. I had this wild thought that perhaps he will claim he has multiple personalities and Manny made him commit the murder as well as all of the other things he claims this mystery man made him do. However, that would certainly fall under an insanity defence. So, what the hell is it??

 

[Baudi Moovan]

I'm just curious: What do you think his defence will be? I have read every single miniscule detail about this case, and for the life of me I cannot figure out how a not guilty plea is going to play out. The evidence is rock solid. I mean, they have his video as well as him captured on video dumping parts, mailing parts, fleeing the country, etc. There is no doubt he did it, so how can he argue that he is not guilty? He may argue that he was forced to do it, but wouldn't he have turned over a name by now, in which case we'd have heard something alluding to a second party. I had this wild thought that perhaps he will claim he has multiple personalities and Manny made him commit the murder as well as all of the other things he claims this mystery man made him do. However, that would certainly fall under an insanity defence. So, what the hell is it??

I cant figure it out either Sunday. There's no reasonable explaination for any of the evidence they have against him.

I always come back to "he wants the international attention from a trial" but... reports from the court room that he doesnt look at anyone, is sort of aloof sort of lead me to believe that I am wrong with that. Im very curious what will happen.

I did read that extremely narcissistic people will never admit they are crazy, no matter the circumstances (Ill come back to edit when I find it). That they can potray themselves anyway they want to. They are smarter, they are more charming, they are more believable than any evidence against them. Possibility?

Edit: http://www.globaltvedmonton.com/can...psychiatrist+assessment/6442666863/story.html

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Could someone please remind me - what was Bernardo's plea? This case is similar in that Bernardo made tapes of his acts, LE found his basement filled with evidence, etc.

I just don't remember how he pled. Something tells me he also pled not guilty.

Thanks in advance. (This might give us some idea as to how the LM case will play out.)

 

[dotr]

Could someone please remind me - what was Bernardo's plea? This case is similar in that Bernardo made tapes of his acts, LE found his basement filled with evidence, etc.

I just don't remember how he pled. Something tells me he also pled not guilty.

Thanks in advance. (This might give us some idea as to how the LM case will play out.)

You are correct, he pled not guilty, this is good breakdown of case events..
http://www.canada.com/national/features/homolka/story.html?id=bab9c4c1-d0ac-4bbe-bd54-abdcc4096051
"March 30, 1994: Attorney General Marion Boyd announces a ``preferred indictment'' on Bernardo's murder charges, bypassing a preliminary hearing and sending the case directly to trial.

May 4, 1994 : Bernardo's murder trial begins in St. Catharines before Justice Patrick LeSage of Ontario Court (general division). Bernardo pleads not guilty to all charges. The trial immediately goes into legal arguments and motions.

Sept. 12, 1994: Ken Murray resigns as Bernardo's lawyer, and the defence is assumed by John Rosen. Rosen tells the judge he will need several months to prepare his case".

 

[HastingsChi]

I'm just curious: What do you think his defence will be? I have read every single miniscule detail about this case, and for the life of me I cannot figure out how a not guilty plea is going to play out. The evidence is rock solid. I mean, they have his video as well as him captured on video dumping parts, mailing parts, fleeing the country, etc. There is no doubt he did it, so how can he argue that he is not guilty? He may argue that he was forced to do it, but wouldn't he have turned over a name by now, in which case we'd have heard something alluding to a second party. I had this wild thought that perhaps he will claim he has multiple personalities and Manny made him commit the murder as well as all of the other things he claims this mystery man made him do. However, that would certainly fall under an insanity defence. So, what the hell is it??

I would imagine that Magnotta is likely pushing his legal team to buy into the idea that he was framed for this crime. Essentially that the video was spliced together with images of his person inserted seamlessly to make him appear like the perpetrator.

His idea might take two routes for this: blame the infamous Manny or the abusive ex and have the NY lawyer testify to the constant fear and years of abuse that Magnotta suffered. Or he might blame the animal rights activists who have been harassing and hunting him for years and set him up for this crime so he'd be caged and suffer for the rest of his life and could never injure another life again.

He will say that he ran because he knew that those framing him were too convincing for him to receive a fair discussion with the police to let him prove he was not guilty but was framed. He had to flee Canadian jurisdiction in order to try to clear his name. He was terrified, the world thinks he's a monster but he's just a sweet lil boy who somehow rubbed the wrong people the wrong way.

I'd imagine this defense would also play up the fact that the head was not discovered until after Magnotta's arrest and that it would be impossible for a human head to not be detected for days and days in such a popular public park.

That's how I'd imagine Magnotta would want to play it. Doubtful he can convince his legal team to go with it.

Thoughts?

 

[dotr]

Dealing with psychopaths...VIDEO
http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/2012-2013/2013/02/the-unrepentant.html

"The Unrepentant


They are marked by their ability to kill without passion and without remorse. Some are called psychopaths - a term that evokes nightmare images of murderers and monsters. But the label can also apply to men and women who are successful, intelligent, charismatic, charming and amusing - and so all the more dangerous. This week on the fifth estate, Linden MacIntyre looks at what makes a psychopath through the fifth estate's close encounters with of four of Canada's most frightening criminals.

the fifth estate begins with "Lightning" Lee, a former kick-boxer who brutally victimized women and children who was described as a "textbook psychopath." The other criminals MacIntyre takes on didn't outwardly seem to be the type - the respected commander of an air force base, Russell Williams; and Karla Homolka, who convinced police and a psychiatrist she was a victim, even though she helped her husband assault and kill young girls, including her own younger sister. Finally, MacIntyre revisits the harrowing story of two teenaged friends who conspired to murder one of their families and were caught in a controversial RCMP sting. They are all disordered personalities, whose lack of empathy and shame inspires both fear and fascination"

 

[Shimmers]

I would imagine that Magnotta is likely pushing his legal team to buy into the idea that he was framed for this crime. Essentially that the video was spliced together with images of his person inserted seamlessly to make him appear like the perpetrator.

His idea might take two routes for this: blame the infamous Manny or the abusive ex and have the NY lawyer testify to the constant fear and years of abuse that Magnotta suffered. Or he might blame the animal rights activists who have been harassing and hunting him for years and set him up for this crime so he'd be caged and suffer for the rest of his life and could never injure another life again.

He will say that he ran because he knew that those framing him were too convincing for him to receive a fair discussion with the police to let him prove he was not guilty but was framed. He had to flee Canadian jurisdiction in order to try to clear his name. He was terrified, the world thinks he's a monster but he's just a sweet lil boy who somehow rubbed the wrong people the wrong way.

I'd imagine this defense would also play up the fact that the head was not discovered until after Magnotta's arrest and that it would be impossible for a human head to not be detected for days and days in such a popular public park.

That's how I'd imagine Magnotta would want to play it. Doubtful he can convince his legal team to go with it.

Thoughts?

I think you ain't far from the truth Hastings! The "him being framed" act played out to the max in court. Some sort of catchy story of how he was tipped by some random ex lover that he was displayed in a grusome video, and that he must fled the country, because someone ( or the animal activist group ) has aimed on his persona. Ofcourse this is all played out in an oscar winning preformance...

What I find intersting is that one attourney left the team with the season: conflict of intereset. ( correct me if i'm wrong ). That means that that particulair attourney had something to do either with the Lin family or in the past against LM... Does anyone have any further info on that part?

Also LM wearing casual clothes with up to date frames... my fist thought was pulling off the hipster/Steve Urkle look --. nerdy and innocent.

And last thing concerning JL head found in the park...does anyone know already who tipped to police or is that still a mysterygame to all of us?

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

I don't think anyone knows yet about who tipped LE to the whereabouts of the head. Nor do we know anything about the conflict of interest situation.

I, for one, highly doubt that his defense will be that 'someone forced him to do it/he was set up to do it' thing. That's not credible at all. Rather, I think the defence will play up the poor-boy-with-troubles-brought-up-wrong-so-he-became-somewhat-ill adjusted-in-adulthood thing. The defence will make mention of his "needing" to be an escort to make a decent living. And he might have been using illegal drugs because his life was so horrible and painful, who wouldn't need somehting to ease the pain.

My bets are on the defence playing up the poor boy/we must feel sorry for him and not judge him harshly type of situation.

:twocents:

 

[Shimmers]

I don't think anyone knows yet about who tipped LE to the whereabouts of the head. Nor do we know anything about the conflict of interest situation.

I, for one, highly doubt that his defense will be that 'someone forced him to do it/he was set up to do it' thing. That's not credible at all. Rather, I think the defence will play up the poor-boy-with-troubles-brought-up-wrong-so-he-became-somewhat-ill adjusted-in-adulthood thing. The defence will make mention of his "needing" to be an escort to make a decent living. And he might have been using illegal drugs because his life was so horrible and painful, who wouldn't need somehting to ease the pain.

My bets are on the defence playing up the poor boy/we must feel sorry for him and not judge him harshly type of situation.

:twocents:

That's also a plausible story the defence could play out in court. But in essence they say: guilty, but please give him a mild punishment because we need to feel sorry for him. That doesn't rhyme with his earlier statement of not guilty...

But then again.. nothing really rhymes with him haha

 

[matou]

OH and don't forget, he was sexually involved with his own mother or aunt or sister or whoever. JMO

 

[dotr]

I don't think anyone knows yet about who tipped LE to the whereabouts of the head. Nor do we know anything about the conflict of interest situation.

I, for one, highly doubt that his defense will be that 'someone forced him to do it/he was set up to do it' thing. That's not credible at all. Rather, I think the defence will play up the poor-boy-with-troubles-brought-up-wrong-so-he-became-somewhat-ill adjusted-in-adulthood thing. The defence will make mention of his "needing" to be an escort to make a decent living. And he might have been using illegal drugs because his life was so horrible and painful, who wouldn't need somehting to ease the pain.

My bets are on the defence playing up the poor boy/we must feel sorry for him and not judge him harshly type of situation.

:twocents:

Bingo, imo!
- a suit might be off-putting to potential jury (presumably people who are unaware of this case and perhaps do not follow current events...) casual attire may suggest a more down to earth "boy", lacking the means, desire and/or sophistication to dress for the "occasion".

 

[HastingsChi]

I don't think anyone knows yet about who tipped LE to the whereabouts of the head. Nor do we know anything about the conflict of interest situation.

I, for one, highly doubt that his defense will be that 'someone forced him to do it/he was set up to do it' thing. That's not credible at all. Rather, I think the defence will play up the poor-boy-with-troubles-brought-up-wrong-so-he-became-somewhat-ill adjusted-in-adulthood thing. The defence will make mention of his "needing" to be an escort to make a decent living. And he might have been using illegal drugs because his life was so horrible and painful, who wouldn't need somehting to ease the pain.

My bets are on the defence playing up the poor boy/we must feel sorry for him and not judge him harshly type of situation.

:twocents:

I also doubt that the defense will go with my scenario, but based on what we've learned about Magnotta and my attempt to understand what makes him tick, I believe that the scenario I've hypothesized is what Luka would pitch to his lawyers as a potential defense. I doubt that they will implement it, but I've seen stranger things used by a defense team...