Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #44

[Makara]

I think, until the trial, we will never really know one way or the other whether the girls were at home or at the Kenmore house that night. I remember emailing Alison Sandy at Courier Mail about it last year..... her reply...

Yes there was a bit of confusion with conflicting reports coming through early on in the investigation, but the girls were definitely home on night Allison Baden-Clay went missing.

Thanks Marly. I also emailed Alison Sandy about this and her reply was that only GBC knew and he wasn't saying.

Strange huh?

 

[marlywings]

Thanks Marly. I also emailed Alison Sandy about this and her reply was that only GBC knew and he wasn't saying.

Strange huh?

Yes I remember that. The debate on here still kept going so I emailed later on. She may have ended up verifying it with police??

 

[LadyBird1]

With respect I cant buy that , especially if the screams were as described by Dr Flegg and others:moo:

If the girls were home, I doubt very much the girls would have done much sleeping (unless drugged)
If the girls were not at home and slept properly, they would have been blissfully unaware of anything untoward until Aunty O's explanation.
In that case, their demeanor was probably reasonably satisfactory at school that day. Aunty O didn't sound too worried about that hole.
Either way, it can be reasonably safely assured that all that has come forth from GBC's mouth (and I suspect strongly his sister) is all lies loads of codswallop. IMO. To be taken with a pinch of salt.

 

[Zim]

If GBC has lied to the police re children's overnight stay could he be given heavier charges ie pre-meditated murder ?

Perhaps it was his suggestion the children stay over at his parents thus giving him more 'opportunity' with them out of the way and he could make sure that ABC did not come face to face with TM at the conference.

I am beginning to think he is more vile than I gave him credit for.....

All comments are IMO

 

[Makara]

BBM

Sorry to be the fly in the ointment CC, however when you get to check GBC's own mobile number call log, you will note that he rang that number 0439820631 on at least 2 occasions and I doubt he rang himself - see #273 at 9.52am 20/4 and #325 7.29pm.

It's obviously an important enough number judging by the number of times that it was rung, but it seems not GBC. If the phone number belongs to the family as you suggest, I'm guessing that it could be a mother checking on her little ones, then a father on 20/4, then a grandmother - EBC rang it also #64,#65 on 22/4.

Oh and by the way, the number 07 38590200 is listed as the fax number of the C21 Taringa office according to REIQ.
http://www.reiq.com/AgencyDetails.aspx?acid=949

That phone number belongs to one of Allison's famiy members and I'll leave it at that.

 

[squizzey1]

If GBC has lied to the police re children's overnight stay could he be given heavier charges ie pre-meditated murder ?

Perhaps it was his suggestion the children stay over at his parents thus giving him more 'opportunity' with them out of the way and he could make sure that ABC did not come face to face with TM at the conference.

I am beginning to think he is more vile than I gave him credit for.....

All comment are IMO

I dont think it was premeditated . Just will leave kids with BC s and then can have it out with Allison and tell her about TM and the conference , did that and all hell broke loose and we know the rest ,IMOO

 

[linette]

If GBC has lied to the police re children's overnight stay could he be given heavier charges ie pre-meditated murder ?

Perhaps it was his suggestion the children stay over at his parents thus giving him more 'opportunity' with them out of the way and he could make sure that ABC did not come face to face with TM at the conference.

I am beginning to think he is more vile than I gave him credit for.....

All comment are IMO

Even if he is lying about where the girls were doesn't mean it was pre-meditated. Just means they were staying at grandparents so Allison could have an early start the next day. Just a coincidence that something else happened aswell.
Ofcourse it COULD mean pre-meditation though.

But if police can prove they weren't at home then it makes him look even more guilty... if he was innocent there'd be no reason to lie.

I would say this could be a BIG reason the BC's aren't talking. They would have hated that Allisons parents got the girls, because then their secret could be out.

 

[bearbear]

Another post of interest from BrookieLocal. I think it has been established from the police affidavit's that there was not a lawyer present on the morning of the 20 April. The fact of whether the girls were at home on the Thursday night has always been a bit of a mystery. IMO the girls had a sleepover at Nigelaine's on the Thursday night, spending time with their Walton cousins. We now know that a sleepover was organised at the Brookfield house on the Friday night with the Walton cousins but sadly that never happened.

It makes sense to me that the girls did spend the night at the BC house. TM stated that she was speaking to GBC on the phone on the Thursday evening as he was on his way to his parent's place, he having bought sausages on the way, probably for a family barbecue. Allison had an early start the following morning and it would have been convenient for the girls to stay with the BC's and for Olivia to drop them home before school in the morning. I personally don't think that the sleepover was organised to remove the girls from the house so that GBC could murder Allison. I think the fact that they weren't there allowed him to vent his full rage on Allison. There was no one else there to see him or to stop what he was doing.

BrookieLocal
Registered User

The middle B-C child was very much a mummy's girl, very clingy to Allison, today must have been very hard for all 3 girls.

I was told today that cause of death is definitely strangulation and unless toxicology reports provide some physical evidence it may be a while before an arrest is made as most evidence is circumstantial.

We've been discussing what information could have triggered police to act so quickly - I was told that GB-C's lawyer was at the house when police arrived! GB-C told police that the kids were at home that night and one of the children said they weren't.

BBM:


Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, 43, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 - #6

i remember reading this, the child contradicting him that morning, it makes so much more sense the girls having a sleepover with their cousins and such a relief the possibility they didnt hear or see their mother being hurt. it fits in with the early start and night off and them being able to fight freely.
also gbc probably thought it wasnt a lie to text the girls arent up yet because they might not have been, he just didnt say where!
i wonder if the middle child who was close to allison wrote her a note and put in her handbag before school

 

[Makara]

i remember reading this, the child contradicting him that morning, it makes so much more sense the girls having a sleepover with their cousins and such a relief the possibility they didnt hear or see their mother being hurt. it fits in with the early start and night off and them being able to fight freely.
also gbc probably thought it wasnt a lie to text the girls arent up yet because they might not have been, he just didnt say where!
i wonder if the middle child who was close to allison wrote her a note and put in her handbag before school

I really don't like talking about the girls at all but one thing that did stand out to me at Allison's funeral was the body language of the 'middle child' towards her father when they were standing at the rear of the hearse.

 

[Maigret]

I really don't like talking about the girls at all but one thing that did stand out to me at Allison's funeral was the body language of the 'middle child' towards her father when they were standing at the rear of the hearse.

Yes - it was very telling

 

[Curiousasacat]

I will edit the phone records with the new info tomorrow.

I see now what you were getting at and I do apologize as I now see the two different numbers. Very similar and I actually thought they were the same number.If anyone else spotted anything that needs fixing let me Know. : )

 

[spratsmum]

I wonder if this is the scenario that late afternoon 19 April 2012:


The girls are picked up from school by NBC's and/or OW, they go to Grandma' s and play with cousins, Gerard is invited over for a BBQ for dinner (allison is out), TMcH rings and he arranges to meet her after dinner. He leaves the girls with his mother, telling Allison he is giving her the night "off". Allison arrives home and rings Olivia to enquiry about the girls, something is said that alerts Allison that perhaps GBC was out with one his "ladies", he comes home, an argument breaks out etc. The story is concocted later in the night and the girls are bought home by OW and dressed for school, Gerard messages Allison making out he is a helpful, caring spouse and situation runs from that. The BC and Olivia believe people won't think anyone has killed their spouse with their children in the house. This starting to make more sense to me, the pieces were not falling together before, now it seems that most of the morning story could be staged it is becoming likely.

 

[Aunty]

AUNTY you OK? Did you go I'm concerned where you were going, please tell someone where or don't go on you own.
Which area are you 'seeing'.

Be careful of caterpillars, vacs, razors & shopping centre pilons cause they can mongrel thingys.

:viking::viking::viking:
I'll be extra careful x

 

[LadyBird1]

Even if he is lying about where the girls were doesn't mean it was pre-meditated. Just means they were staying at grandparents so Allison could have an early start the next day. Just a coincidence that something else happened aswell.
Ofcourse it COULD mean pre-meditation though.

But if police can prove they weren't at home then it makes him look even more guilty... if he was innocent there'd be no reason to lie.

I would say this could be a BIG reason the BC's aren't talking. They would have hated that Allisons parents got the girls, because then their secret could be out.

If the girls indeed were at NBC's place, you can bet your biffy it wasn't so Allison could get an early start. Reasoning: GBC has not any form of consideration or thoughtfulness towards Allison to date.
That part probably wasn't planned IMO.
The planned sleepover was for the Friday 20th at Allison's place.
No, IMO GBC has zoomed home to sort out some urgent business with Allison courtesy of TMcH.
THAT sleepover at NBC's on the 19th was unplanned. Maybe GBC even half planned to pick then up later.
(Not trying to contradict you Linette, just ironing out my thoughts after your input!)

 

[DrWatson]

Just checking in quickly from the Tassie Highlands via 3G.

The height of the bridge to the point where Allison was found is probably about 7 m give or take a little bit. The 14m referred to in the autopsy report is the maximum height of the bridge over the middle of the creek.

And if she was totally relaxed - as in... dead... and landed in the tidal mud plus a couple of hundred mm of water on the high tide, then there is every chance that there would be no broken bones. And of course we know that there were none. That little bit of water would also explain how the lower half of her body got washed around so that her feet were pointing back under the bridge, on the "bounce" wave that would have come back from the opposite bank, and before she got stuck into the tidal mud after the tide went down.

In all the years of my career, it has never ceased to amaze me just how severe an impact a totally relaxed body can withstand with no damage. Drunks fall down and do no major damage at all - yet you or I falling exactly the same way - but sober - would break a wrist, for example, by trying to break our fall.

The moral of the story, of course, is to stay drunk and you won't break too many bones.... and no hangover either... (facetious joke only)

OK - back to the fishing etc. Will be home in Brisbane on the weekend (Easter) and back on good old broadband.

 

[bearbear]

I really don't like talking about the girls at all but one thing that did stand out to me at Allison's funeral was the body language of the 'middle child' towards her father when they were standing at the rear of the hearse.

i know, its just so sad, also terribly sad is knowing allison would have fought for her life, wanting so desperately to stay alive for her girls and knowing how they would miss her.

 

[Couldbe]

Allison would have been furious if GBC suggested she not go to the Conference the next day because TMH was upset and had applied pressure to - she had had her hair done and was looking forward to going . If she knew TMH was going to be there sparks would have ensued.

At some time between 5pm and 5.30pm, TM phoned GBC and following their talk about buying sausages ...... to drop off to his daughters at his Parents' address, etc, etc, TM stated "I suggested that Gerard should tell Allison that I was attending the conference. I then asked to meet with Gerard in an attempt to understand and discuss what was going through his head in regards our relationship".

..... wonder if TM did show up at GBC's house ... 'to meet' with GBC, and 'to tell Allison in person that she was attending the conference'..... unbeknown to TM's twin boys who she has said were usually 'starting the sleep process at 8.30pm'..... we know that Allison was alive at 8.28pm (on the phone to Olivia). Witnesses heard loud screams (female, it seems).
.... not saying that TM was involved in the murder of Allison; just that she could be avoiding saying that she was at GBC's residence that night.

TM left the conference at 3pm, and when her boys returned home a short time later ..."I told them that I was sick and went to bed". (Must have been badly in need of some sleep). JMO

 

[wewillgetyou]

I have children within the age group of the BC children. It never ceases to amaze me what they can sleep through. That's why I think that it is possible the BC girls 'may' have slept through.

I'm not saying the girls did sleep through. I just suggest that it is possible.

 

[Nads]

I have children within the age group of the BC children. It never ceases to amaze me what they can sleep through. That's why I think that it is possible the BC girls 'may' have slept through.

I'm not saying the girls did sleep through. I just suggest that it is possible.

When my kids were 7 and 9 the alarm system went off and wouldn't stop for over an hour. Despite their room being closest to it. They didn't get disturbed from their sleep at all.

It is possible, but if you were planning something you wouldn't risk it, you'd think.

 

[wewillgetyou]

Agreed. 'If' you were planning something. I'm thinking along the lines that whatever happened that night escalated and the end of it was the worst possible result. I can't remember where ( but was in the statements) that GBC was heavy handed with the girls. He obviously has a temper.