Amanda Knox New Motivation Report RE: Meredith Kercher Murder #1 *new trial ordered*

[otto]

Most analysts agree that the US likely would not extradite Knox if the Italian court sentences her to more time.


http://ca.news.yahoo.com/amanda-knox-retrial-tale-two-countries-legal-systems-231855314.html

Which article in the treaty are legal analysts looking at when they arrive at the conclusion that the treaty will not apply to Amanda Knox?

 

[kwmred]

Don't get discourage, potto. This topic gets heated at times, but very every dismissive remark, there are hundreds if not thousands of us who are following your arguments.

If Knox was briefed by her lawyer, Anne Bremner, then she may want to check the facts with another lawyer. It appears that Bremner is glazing over the little words, like "Requested Party."

"Extradition shall not be granted when the person sought has been convicted, acquitted or pardoned, or has served the sentence imposed, by the Requested Party [this means the US] for the same acts for which for which extradition is sought."

Knox has not been convicted, acquitted or pardoned, or served a sentence in the US for the murder of Meredith. She has served 4 years in jail in Italy, three of which were for the false allegations against the bar owner. During the appeal stage of the trial, she was released. That appeal process was reviewed and annulled, so the appeal process will be repeated. It could still go either way, but the ruling that she lied to avoid the consequences for the murder is part of the appeal. That is, it is confirmed that she lied because of the murder, so it's difficult to argue that she didn't commit the murder ... it becomes illogical to have one verdict without the other.

Perhaps Knox is thinking that because an US fighter pilot, a colonel and 22 CIA people were not extradited from the US to Italy, that means that she too won't be extradited. This would also be an error, as there is an exemption clause in the treaty for military personnel. Knox is not military.

I find it very interesting that Knox and friends are continuing to explore tactics for avoiding the consequences of a murder conviction.

BBM

Why wouldn't they?

 

[otto]

Let's suppose that the conviction is confirmed and an extradition request is made. Let's suppose that the US refuses to honor the treaty agreement on the basis that US law does not permt the prosecution to appeal an appeal ruling.

How do you suppose that will go over in terms of the continued existence of that treaty? If the US is not prepared to honor a treaty, wouldn't that be a very good reason for Italy to terminate the agreement? Realistically speaking, if the agreement is only in place for the benefit of the US, then it should be revoked. Is the US willing to go that far in order to protect a woman convicted of murder in a European country?

 

[otto]

BBM

Why wouldn't they?

Don't people believe in justice?

 

[Frankie Hellis]

Your link does not say anything about the time food stays in the duodenum. It is not only the first part of the intestines, it is also a very small part and therefore it only makes sense that it doesn't stay there very long. You seem to be confused with the total emptying time including the small intestines. The small intestines were not empty. There was still food in there. It was just the duodenum that was empty.
<snip>

WRONG. There was a small amount of food in the last loop of her intestine. Other than that, they were empty - all 20+ feet of them.

 

[Frankie Hellis]

BBM. Wrong again. It takes 2-3 hours for the stomach to completely empty not to start to empty. It takes just about half an hour to start to empty. This means if you consider Meredith a normal healthy person, then her 6pm pizza would have been gone from her stomach by 8-9pm. TOD was set at 10:50pm by the coroner. So there are still several hours for that pizza to reach the last loop of the intestines where it showed up during autopsy.

Therefore whatever was in her stomach at TOD must have been eaten later. Another piece of evidence that proves this was that a piece of mushroom was found while the 6pm pizza did not contain any mushrooms. This 9pm TOD theory proves exactly the opposite of what it was supposed to proof.

No sherlockh, you are wrong.

page 115 of Massei, page 63 of Dr. Lalli’s report:

solids are ingested into the stomach and are not able to reach the pyloric sphincter until they are reduced to a semi-fluid or fluid consistency; the emptying of the stomach then begins to occur when some of the contents have become sufficiently fluid to reach the pylorus, which happens the third or fourth hour after eating. This is when one can find food material at the level of the duodenum

Here is a report explaining the basics of gastrointestinal transit:
http://www.vivo.colostate.edu/hbooks/pathphys/digestion/basics/transit.html

Here are the results from a study published in 2006:
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1440-1746.2006.04449.x/abstract
The mean ±&#8202;SD of half gastric emptying time (T1/2) of a fluid test meal was determined to be 80.5 ± 22.1 min and for Tlag to be 40.3 ± 10.2 min. However, the T1/2 and Tlag of solid meals did not fit to normal distribution and thus median and percentiles were determined. The median time of T1/2 for solids was 127 min (25–75% percentiles: 112.0–168.3 min) and 81.5 min for Tlag (25–75% percentiles: 65.5–102.0 min). No significant correlation was found between gastric emptying and age, sex or BMI.

 

[trillian]

Don't people believe in justice?

Putting someone in prison for a murder they had nothing to do with isn't justice. It is a heinous injustice in itself.

Italy will run through this process and she will come up innocent again. I can only imagine that it is so that the entire botched investigation is given more credence than the absolute joke it was.

Extradition would be such an embarassment for Italy. It won't happen.

Is that delusional prosecutor in jail yet?

 

[otto]

Putting someone in prison for a murder they had nothing to do with isn't justice. It is a heinous injustice in itself.

Italy will run through this process and she will come up innocent again. I can only imagine that it is so that the entire botched investigation is given more credence than the absolute joke it was.

Extradition would be such an embarassment for Italy. It won't happen.

Is that delusional prosecutor in jail yet?

Italy wouldn't convict someone for the fun of it. There are several stages to the trial to ensure that a false conviction doesn't happen. However, if at the end of these stages, the conviction is confirmed, then it seems that it must be just. If it is a just conviction, should the convicted persons not be imprisoned?

There were two prosecutors during Knox's trial. Were they both delusional, or only one? If so, why is only one delusional when two participated equally in the prosecution?

 

[otto]

"The biggest mistake made by most of the media commentary (I&#8217;m looking at you Alan Dershowitz and various law prof types here) is that almost no one seems to have read the U.S. Italy Extradition Treaty. Article VI reads:

Extradition shall not be granted when the person sought has been convicted, acquitted, or pardoned, or has served the sentence imposed, by the Requested Party for the same acts for which extradition is requested

(Emphasis added.) The Requested Party in this scenario would be the United States (Italy would be the &#8220;Requesting Party&#8221. The U.S. has never charged Knox with anything, much less with the murder of her UK roommate. So Article VI does not bar Knox&#8217; extradition to Italy. Period.

What about the U.S. Constitution&#8217;s Fifth Amendment prohibition on Double Jeopardy? Well, the short answer is that the Fifth Amendment&#8217;s Double Jeopardy Protection doesn&#8217;t apply in an extradition proceeding since the U.S. is not the one trying Knox (they are just handing her over).

Ku argues that even if the the Fifth Amendment did apply, "under US law, an appeal that overturns a lower court conviction is not an acquittal for purposes of the Fifth Amendment."

The Amanda Knox case is apparently not double jeopardy under either Italian law or US law.

"Knox had better get ready to be extradited, or she better get ready to move to Brazil," he says."

http://www.breitbart.com/InstaBlog/...da-Knox-had-better-get-ready-to-be-extradited

 

[redheadedgal]

its extremely hypocritical of italy to demand, expect, ask for the extradition of knox considering...

"india stunned as italy REFUSES to send back two marines charged with murder of [indian] fishermen"

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/indiahom...-Marines-charged-murder-Kerala-fishermen.html


"I urge the Italian authorities to respect the undertakings to the Honourable Supreme Court and return the two accused persons to stand trial. We will continue to urge this course of action through diplomatic channels. If they do not keep their word* there will be consequences for our relations with Italy."

http://www.ibtimes.co.in/articles/4...e-ties-italy-diplomatic-breakdown-marines.htm


*the powers that be in italy lied? hmmm

 

[Gecko100]

A bit o/t, but I wish to support the victim of crime, Meredith Kercher.
I have read just about everything I can on this case and firmly believe that two of the perpetrators of this crime are walking free amongst us.
On a side note, have you ever been to your toilet at home and found a poo there? What is your immediate reaction?
The only reason to leave it there is because you know who did it.

 

[sherlockh]

WRONG. There was a small amount of food in the last loop of her intestine. Other than that, they were empty - all 20+ feet of them.

Eehh..which part is wrong? Yes there was still food in the intestines. That is what I said also.

 

[sherlockh]

No sherlockh, you are wrong.

page 115 of Massei, page 63 of Dr. Lalli’s report:

Here is a report explaining the basics of gastrointestinal transit:
http://www.vivo.colostate.edu/hbooks/pathphys/digestion/basics/transit.html

Here are the results from a study published in 2006:
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1440-1746.2006.04449.x/abstract
The mean ±&#8202;SD of half gastric emptying time (T1/2) of a fluid test meal was determined to be 80.5 ± 22.1 min and for Tlag to be 40.3 ± 10.2 min. However, the T1/2 and Tlag of solid meals did not fit to normal distribution and thus median and percentiles were determined. The median time of T1/2 for solids was 127 min (25–75% percentiles: 112.0–168.3 min) and 81.5 min for Tlag (25–75% percentiles: 65.5–102.0 min). No significant correlation was found between gastric emptying and age, sex or BMI.

Breath tests are not the most reliable tests. I already showed other sources that mention much shorter ranges. And even the breath test doesn't show any values close to 3 hours. So you are only proving my point that it is very unlikely that this is what happened.

It is just common sense anyway. Everybody eats and everybody knows that they don't walk around with a full stomach for hours after eating. If you play sports then it is best not to eat right before a game, but a few hours before is just fine.

 

[otto]

its extremely hypocritical of italy to demand, expect, ask for the extradition of knox considering...

"india stunned as italy REFUSES to send back two marines charged with murder of [indian] fishermen"

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/indiahom...-Marines-charged-murder-Kerala-fishermen.html


"I urge the Italian authorities to respect the undertakings to the Honourable Supreme Court and return the two accused persons to stand trial. We will continue to urge this course of action through diplomatic channels. If they do not keep their word* there will be consequences for our relations with Italy."

http://www.ibtimes.co.in/articles/4...e-ties-italy-diplomatic-breakdown-marines.htm


*the powers that be in italy lied? hmmm

Regarding marines, wouldn't that fall under the standard military exemption? A US fighter jet pilot was exempt from extradition after killing civilians because of military affiliation. The US did not extradite a military person to Italy and Italy does not extradite a military person to India. What's the difference?

 

[MichaelSmith]

She already has travel restrictions based on her other conviction and jail time. If her murder conviction is affirmed, then she should serve out her sentence. That seems like a no-brainer, yet based on comments here, I get the impression that people believe that Knox shouldn't have to suffer the consequences for murder if the murder is in a country with a different legal system. That's a scary thought.

Do you have any evidence of travel restrictions?

 

[MichaelSmith]

From the facebook page of Michele Giuttari (I'm assuming that it is okay to quote this comment as it is authored by the owner of the page and is not a rumor associated with an opinion) ... it appears that the claims by Preston about superstition and witchcraft as an investigative tool used by an Italian prosecutor is about to be challenged.

<modsnip>
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Michele-Giuttari/265534459526#

Good luck to them with that taking on publishers :banghead:

 

[MichaelSmith]

A reminder:

<mod snip>

Amanda and Raffaele went to the cottage, found Guede there and decided to join him raping and killing Meredith for nothing within 1 hour and then "cleaned and staged" the crime scene to look like Guede's very MO of b&e via a 2nd story window just two weeks before the murder.

Say what?

 

[Malkmus]

A bit o/t, but I wish to support the victim of crime, Meredith Kercher.
I have read just about everything I can on this case and firmly believe that two of the perpetrators of this crime are walking free amongst us.
On a side note, have you ever been to your toilet at home and found a poo there? What is your immediate reaction?
The only reason to leave it there is because you know who did it.

It wasn't her bathroom, but her roommate's. I think most people's "immediate reaction" to seeing poo in someone's else's toilet is disgust. Whether they decide to flush it or not is not going to be the same for every person.

Now that you've established the only reason to leave it is to tie it to Guede, please work that in to the rest of the prosecution theory that said person then intentionally blamed a person other than Guede for the crime.

 

[Malkmus]

Don't people believe in justice?

People said the same thing about Lindy Chamberlain, holding onto the notion that she was guilty for more than twenty years until irrefutable evidence was discovered which exonerated her.

Someday Guede might talk. But as long as the spotlight is on two other defendants, and his release just around the corner, he has no reason to come clean. Had he been given a full life sentence, he might have decided to be honest and confess to his crime, and give a real account of that night.

 

[otto]

Do you have any evidence of travel restrictions?

I do, but given the number of countries in the world, it would be best if you located the information that you are specifically seeking.

If you research the laws of any particular country, with specific emphasis on whether there are travel restrictions for people that have been imprisoned for criminal activities, you will find the information that you want.