weekend break: discuss the latest here #124

[BetteDavisEyes]

I was reading about Betty Broderick and she was diagnosed with: Histrionic personality disorder (HPD). Sounds like Jodi! This is one that i've never looked at.
***The first trial for BB was a hung jury, the second she was sentenced to two consecutive terms of 15 years to life.

I don't disagree that Jodi might be diagnosed with HPD, but I think that JA has multiple symptoms that are more in line with Borderline Personality Disorder. :moo:

What are the symptoms of borderline personality disorder?

According to the DSM, Fourth Edition, Text Revision (DSM-IV-TR), to be diagnosed with borderline personality disorder, a person must show an enduring pattern of behavior that includes at least five of the following symptoms:

Extreme reactions—including panic, depression, rage, or frantic actions—to abandonment, whether real or perceived

A pattern of intense and stormy relationships with family, friends, and loved ones, often veering from extreme closeness and love (idealization) to extreme dislike or anger (devaluation)

Distorted and unstable self-image or sense of self, which can result in sudden changes in feelings, opinions, values, or plans and goals for the future (such as school or career choices)

Impulsive and often dangerous behaviors, such as spending sprees, unsafe sex, substance abuse, reckless driving, and binge eating

Recurring suicidal behaviors or threats or self-harming behavior, such as cutting

Intense and highly changeable moods, with each episode lasting from a few hours to a few days

Chronic feelings of emptiness and/or boredom

Inappropriate, intense anger or problems controlling anger

Having stress-related paranoid thoughts or severe dissociative symptoms, such as feeling cut off from oneself, observing oneself from outside the body, or losing touch with reality.

Seemingly mundane events may trigger symptoms. For example, people with borderline personality disorder may feel angry and distressed over minor separations—such as vacations, business trips, or sudden changes of plans—from people to whom they feel close. Studies show that people with this disorder may see anger in an emotionally neutral face5 and have a stronger reaction to words with negative meanings than people who do not have the disorder.

http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publ...toms-of-borderline-personality-disorder.shtml

 

[josie1986]

Mystery detectives.

Hmm I've got some thing in Arabia going on,like in the desert :floorlaugh:

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

 

[ElleElle]

There was several back and forth quick phone calls between them.

Up until Jodi reached the AZ border from CA. I believe Travis knew she was coming.

Please refresh my memory.... Is there any record or proof (phone calls, texts etc) that Travis knew JA was coming to his place on June 4th?

 

[G&AMom]

Please refresh my memory.... Is there any record or proof (phone calls, texts etc) that Travis knew JA was coming to his place on June 4th?

No. There were some phone calls between them the night before (June 3rd) but no actual proof.

 

[StephanieHartPI]

Greetings from Australia...
I have just started following this case for the last few months and it is blowing my tiny little mind...
As a study in human behaviour and cultural perceptions it is a doozy!!
What amazes me is the way so many people involved are sculpting JA(herself included) into a form that suits their own world view...from JA after the murder to DF onwards up to the recent testimony of ALV...
Unless JA comes clean with an explanation we will never truly know what motivated her to commit such an atrocious act. It's incredible to me we have her in the court room perfectly able to express herself and yet others are being asked to speak on her behalf as though they could even pretend to know her. Her mother doesn't even really know her.
In Australia we have a system where a committal hearing is held before the trial to determine whether something should go to trial. Do you have that in the US? Pardon my ignorance. At that stage I just wish the judge could have said, No lady, your defence is a load of... and there is no evidence for what you are purporting.
I can't watch the trial because I don't have unlimited Internet but have been reading and watching all I can.
CAN'T WAIT FOR THE CROSS!!!!

I'd love to hear all about the other countries and this case, if this was in your Country, knowing what you know about it now, how might this be handled? As you say, would these paid experts be getting up and speaking for her as if they have been her therapist for decades (the way ALV speaks, you think they were roommates or this is her aunt) she didn't have much face to face time with her and she read a lot of a diary that we know Jodi lied in (even admitted it. OMG Travis is dead, who why where?) Um you did it kid?

We have hearings before, and we have Grand Jury that will indict someone when they are shown there is enough evidence to proceed. In this case forensics told them her bloody self was there and she accidently took pictures of the crime So she was connected to the crime by clear evidence. That might mean the Grand Jury did not convene. Or they did and cleary said "have at it fellas"

There was a secondary hearing that takes place while she is in jail and the more facts come out about how utterly brutal this was, the Prosecutor met again and they added the Death Penalty to the Murder Charge.

Then she sits. Then she has 4 years with her crafty Defense team to sit and plot some god forsaken story that could possibly work as to why she did this? Other than the obvious. They broke up, she is a stalker and cannot accept that and sneaks around his windows, hacks into his email and bank account, hides in his closet then heck, just killed him.

In some countries i venture to guess this would be a Judge sentencing and she would just be convicted.

 

[Lorelilly]

What if an xray were to show that it had been broken?

"If you don't know the answer, don't ask the question" is supposed to be one of the big rules for attorneys. It would be way too much of a gamble for the PT to request this, if they even could do it. The DT may have done it and come up empty handed.

I might be wrong on this, but my understanding of discovery is that the parties disclose what the intend to use in trial. So a negative finding that won't be used in trial would not be included in discovery.

I'm sure this has been mentioned... NG showed a video of JA at a wedding at least six years ago and in two places you can SEE JA's finger and it's sticking out there for all the world to see. It happens very quickly though. I'm sure Juan could have that video slowed and then show her stupid murdering digit!

 

[seguek9]

Please refresh my memory.... Is there any record or proof (phone calls, texts etc) that Travis knew JA was coming to his place on June 4th?

Only her testimony. And some missed calls iirc. I could be wrong...but I dont think so.
Very important detail Imo.

 

[Novice Seeker]

But what were they doing after sex but before the shower pics? There are a couple hours unaccounted for. Some think JA left and then snuck back in and surprised TA in the shower? I lean toward TA washing the sheets but still have no idea what occurred in those "lost hours"

I'm beginning to think maybe Jodi gave the appearance of leaving and snuck back in which may explain the look of shock on Travis' face. I also don't believe that the two of them went to sleep bc at that point I believe he was becoming scared about what she might do to him.

 

[Rosemary Pierce]

I have gone back and forth regarding my thoughts about Mr. & Mrs. Arias. Like I said my parents never gave up on me during my addiction, but if I were to slaughter another human being as JA did....I know my parents would beg me to plead guilty and accept responsibility.

I feel like her parents knew what she was, but did not know how to deal with her.

I do have issues with the behavior by her mother in court and trying to sell the pedo letters.

I know my parents would also feel terrible and very apologetic to the Alexander family for what their daughter had done.

 

[katydid23]

Either way, yuck! Even worse, I kind of think it's both. She is so in love with her own work that she thinks she can squish JA into the role. She has to see that the vicious murderer absolutely does not fit. She must not care.

I think ALV has convinced herself that because of the Patriarchal Gender Bias and the unfair Distribution of Power, it is only 'fair' to give the killer a pass. After all, Travis was the biggest flirt this side of the Mississippi, and he called her a *advertiser censored*. She thinks she can convince the jury that 'he had it coming,' imo.

 

[Schuby]

No. There were some phone calls between them the night before (June 3rd) but no actual proof.

O/T, but Just b/c your son is a mechanic and so is my boyfriend, I think you'll appreciate this, one of the first gifts he gave me was a teddy bear with, "Sleep well at night, sleep with a mechanic," embroidered on it's tummy.

 

[DebinGA]

What was Dr. DeMarte given to work with? Samuels yellow pad scribbles, ALV's gut feeling, Jodi's fictional journal entries, and whatever's available from Travis? Maybe the crime scene will speak to her in meaningful ways.

 

[prima.facie]

Still doesn't excuse enabling behaviors that are clearly needing interventions. Sandy didn't murder Travis but she was willing to help his killer escape from the law. She was willing to help in destroying the only thing left of him, his character.

Eh. Family dynamics are a tricky thing.

I have posts around here mentioning (bits and pieces) that my mom is crazy and has done some horrible things, including criminal. I am the black sheep of the family because I demanded answers as to why and the rest of my family acts like she has never done the things she has done. They cater to her like she is this perfect angel. Its the 'ol "if I cover my eyes, I wont see it" game they play. My brothers and father cover for the "sins" of my mother for whatever reasons that I don't know....and it drives me nuts!!

I think jodis mom is the same way....

Really, we don't know what the dynamics are in that family. A child that's a murderer, one in rehab, parents in denial (on the surface).....who the heck knows what goes on behind closed doors.

 

[Truth Detector]

Good point. Especially since the DT all ready loves representing Travis as a perv who difiled the virgin Jodi.

St. Jodi of Arias, astride Alyce of LaViolette and crusading for female victims of fabricated domestic violence -- who have been caught red-, er, handed.

 

[bobloblaw]

Only her testimony. And some missed calls iirc. I could be wrong...but I dont think so.
Very important detail Imo.

Either way it could still be pre-meditated...I'm just curious if it was an ambush, like I suspect...

 

[BeachGirlFromPA]

This keeps nagging at me....

In the video that's been shown of Travis retelling the event where he was held at gunpoint, and JA is supposedly asleep with her head in his lap, he talked about how he tried to convey emotion with his 'retinas'....
Every time I see that full on face shot of him in the shower, right before she killed him, I remember those words. There is a message in his eyes. No doubt in my mind.

 

[StephanieHartPI]

You are making good valid points....

I think ALV believes Jodi. I do not believe she is trained or even studied truth/lie detection. Based on everything I have heard from her, she probably never questions the validity of a story. If a woman claims something, it is so. Also Jodi using one of her many personalities, she can swoon the most gullible and I think ALV was a prime candidate for that.

Also, was ALV given ALL of the evidence we have been privy too that clearly shows Jodi was the abuser and stalker? Or was she given selective pieces of information along with jodis own words.

...eh just some thoughts.

Thats what I want to know! Was ALV shown ALL these video's ALL the interrogation Videos and the mom and dads video? What did they show her. That would be important to me in completing my thought on why she is saying this.

If she truly never followed the case and only sees what the Defense showed her, they may have heavily filtered it so she could testify truthfully after showing the previous 11 everything and they ran out of the Jail.

 

[G&AMom]

I don't disagree that Jodi might be diagnosed with HPD, but I think that JA has multiple symptoms that are more in line with Borderline Personality Disorder. :moo:

What are the symptoms of borderline personality disorder?

According to the DSM, Fourth Edition, Text Revision (DSM-IV-TR), to be diagnosed with borderline personality disorder, a person must show an enduring pattern of behavior that includes at least five of the following symptoms:

Extreme reactions—including panic, depression, rage, or frantic actions—to abandonment, whether real or perceived

A pattern of intense and stormy relationships with family, friends, and loved ones, often veering from extreme closeness and love (idealization) to extreme dislike or anger (devaluation)

Distorted and unstable self-image or sense of self, which can result in sudden changes in feelings, opinions, values, or plans and goals for the future (such as school or career choices)

Impulsive and often dangerous behaviors, such as spending sprees, unsafe sex, substance abuse, reckless driving, and binge eating

Recurring suicidal behaviors or threats or self-harming behavior, such as cutting

Intense and highly changeable moods, with each episode lasting from a few hours to a few days

Chronic feelings of emptiness and/or boredom

Inappropriate, intense anger or problems controlling anger

Having stress-related paranoid thoughts or severe dissociative symptoms, such as feeling cut off from oneself, observing oneself from outside the body, or losing touch with reality.

Seemingly mundane events may trigger symptoms. For example, people with borderline personality disorder may feel angry and distressed over minor separations—such as vacations, business trips, or sudden changes of plans—from people to whom they feel close. Studies show that people with this disorder may see anger in an emotionally neutral face5 and have a stronger reaction to words with negative meanings than people who do not have the disorder.

http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publ...toms-of-borderline-personality-disorder.shtml

I think Betty Broderick had Borderline Personality Disorder as well. In fact, I think she's the poster child for it.

I think the best comparison to Jodi is Diane Downs. She wrote a phone journal as well and all but demanded that LE read it. She twisted everything her boyfriend said to make it seem like they had a relationship when he'd broken off with her (and gone back to his wife). He had some similarities to Travis, too, having sex with Downs long after he realized he didn't want to be with her, and trying everything short of shooting her to get rid of her. Downs also came up with a two-strangers-appeared-out-of-nowhere story. Pretty much everybody who knew her thought she was guilty.

 

[elmomom]

The way her dad says in a real "dad" moment to Det Flores... as he leans in... "they were gettin along so good"

Very genuine, there is not an ounce of blame on Travis in the voice of either parent if you notice. They seem pretty horrified their daughter did this to that "young man".

They are miles away from even asking what he may have done.. They didn't go there.. basically both blurted right out "OMG OMG OMG Jodi has mental problems"

They are not questioning anything Travis did. I do feel for them.

I would be very disappointed if that changed. I can be supportive of them if they just stick with the truth. If they go down the dark path, no.

Something I have seen are parents that cannot believe the absolute worst about their child, and parents that will go to the extreme to find an alternative explanation. I can see it possible that they have (or maybe just the Mom) accepted the fact that Jodi killed travis, but as soon as they were given an easier to accept reason - he was abusing her- that they could be driven, psychologically, to choose to believe this. I am not defending them, really, but I can in a way empathize - its very hard to accept that your child is full out evil. And maybe that is why the almost impossible to believe becomes now believable. It is infinitely easier to accept that your child killed in an uncontrollable rage at an abuser than it is to believe she killed a good man in cold blood. Jmo, I do feel they are genuine.

 

[bobloblaw]

O/T, but Just b/c your son is a mechanic and so is my boyfriend, I think you'll appreciate this, one of the first gifts he gave me was a teddy bear with, "Sleep well at night, sleep with a mechanic," embroidered on it's tummy.

As a fellow mechanic of the HVAC variety, I think we should have a "tradesman day" just like we have a "secretaries day"..... Just don't bring us flowers...maybe a beer!:rocker: