Why did JA drag TA back to the shower?

[s_finch]

I've been on Websleuths for a LONG time, but am late to this party so excuse me for asking a question I'm sure has been discussed.

I've searched on here for the reason she would drag him back to the shower, but haven't found it. It's not like dragging him back to the shower was going to accomplish anything since he had already bled out on the carpet and since the bathroom was a bloody mess. The only reason I could ever see for using the shower would have been to keep him in there the whole time while murdering him in order to drain the blood and therefore making it easier to dispose of his body in a neat manner/without a trace. I guess he ruined that for her when he bolted from the shower..... so why drag him back??? Unless the shower was so part of her plan that she just automatically did it after he died and then realized, "hell, I can't clean this huge mess up and dispose of him neatly now so it's time to get out of here".

TIA and y'all, as usual, are doing a wonderful job keeping up with the trial and info!

 

[nursebeeme]

great thread idea! Discuss away! :rocker:

 

[tweezybird]

I think she needed to clean his body of her DNA and also she had to have been a bloody mess too. I think she showered over him, 2 birds/1 stone.

 

[websurfer]

I think she rolled him there....or maybe used a sheet to drag him there?On something...
like a sheet?
Also: I think she showered herself over him?
Anybody know if all bathrooms have been checked to see if she cleaned herself elsewhere in the house?

 

[SoCalBuck]

I think she needed to clean his body of her DNA and also she had to have been a bloody mess too. I think she showered over him, 2 birds/1 stone.

I agree with this, and also with the OP.

I think her plan from the beginning was to murder him while in the shower, wash away the blood and possibly dispose of his body.

I don't know how long his planned trip was, but it would have been much longer than 5 days IMO for anyone to raise a red flag in the house.

I would also be curious to know if she brought any types of bags/containers and/or any cutting devices besides the knife to achieve this....we'll probably never know.

 

[connie9030]

I agree. TA was washed off after he was put back in the shower. She obviously planned on him staying there after she killed to to minimize DNA evidence. The evidence shows she washed him off and there was a glass in the shower she was using. She knew she got cut and was bleeding and wanted to make sure none of her blood was found on him. She really believed she was smart enough to pull this off without any proof she was ever there. When TA left the shower, that ruined everything.

 

[caroline]

Does anyone know if the shower door was open or closed when TA was found?

 

[tlcya]

I think she fully inteded for him to die in that shower. I think the gun was always the weapon of choice and she pulled it on him in the shower. (yes, I am one of THOSE people who feel she shot him first) I feel there was problem with the gun and he did not die as she planned. I think the idea was that he would be nude, vulnerable in an enclosed space and she would minimize the possible blood evidence getting on herself or elsewhere in the apartment. I think him not dying and coming out of the shower in an effort to escape her caused her to go for the knife in a mad dash, she cut through the closet, he went the other direction trying to escape her and she was on him like a banshee from hell stabbing him in the back.

In a panic, she dragged him back to the shower, the place she originally envisioned the cleanup effort happening. I think she was then in a tizzy, attempted cleanup but realized quickly that was not going to work because of all the other blood around the suite. She gave up on the cleanup and beat a hasty retreat lest roommates come home and risk them seeing her.

ETA I agree with others. She showered over his dead body, literally :sick:

 

[franquerolane]

I too have always thought she planned to take him with her, a piece at a time, thus the knife. If he'd died in the shower like he was supposed to there would have been no trace of him left. He would just disappear, and she would have gotten away with it.

 

[TheBugs]

I think it was to wash away any of her DNA that may have been on him. In her interview with Det. Flores, she kept repeating she would have worn gloves. I think that was her more or less scolding herself for not wearing gloves. She tried cleaning up (water on the floor) but that pesky palm print (and of course the camera's memory card) put her at the scene.

 

[lil_buddy]

Isn't this self explanatory? How are you gonna clean up when there's a body spurting, oozing blood everywhere?

 

[Jenni979]

I think it was clean-up and containment...

I fully believe that she had other ideas (ie, cutting him to bits and disposing of his body) but she realized it's not quite as easy as they make it seem in the movies...

MOO...

 

[Cailin Rua]

Because her original plan involved him being in the shower the whole time so when things went haywire she was too stressed to improvise and was just determined to get him BACK in the shower where she thought he should have STAYED?

 

[Lulu67]

I think she rolled him there....or maybe used a sheet to drag him there?On something...
like a sheet?
Also: I think she showered herself over him?
Anybody know if all bathrooms have been checked to see if she cleaned herself elsewhere in the house?

I kind of thought she used that cup to rinse herself off on the bathroom floor (outside the shower), and then tossed it in on top of him. Got dressed maybe in the closet (???) and then took all the bloody towels, etc and dumped them in the washer. There WAS one drop of blood found in the downstairs bathroom near his office remember. But just one SMALL drop.

 

[Lulu67]

Does anyone know if the shower door was open or closed when TA was found?

I think it was hanging open.

 

[geevee]

Does anyone know if the shower door was open or closed when TA was found?

I believe Det. Flores stated in his report that the shower door was open when he was found.

In the 2nd to last 'shoulder' photo you can actually see that his 'arm' is really his and her hand fighting over the knife, the end of the knife handle is even visible.

Anyways, I think the knife flies out of her hand and lands behind the glass scale and she gets her cuts at this time, she bleeds on him because it's no where near over yet and when it is she knows she has to clean her blood off him.

I'm still on the fence as to whether or not she intended to remove his body afterwards. She would have had to have prepared a place to put him beforehand as it would be night-time in the desert when she got there, if the time stamps are correct. So I'm still undecided on that aspect.

 

[gwenabob]

I believe Det. Flores stated in his report that the shower door was open when he was found.

In the 2nd to last 'shoulder' photo you can actually see that his 'arm' is really his and her hand fighting over the knife, the end of the knife handle is even visible.

Anyways, I think the knife flies out of her hand and lands behind the glass scale and she gets her cuts at this time, she bleeds on him because it's no where near over yet and when it is she knows she has to clean her blood off him.

I'm still on the fence as to whether or not she intended to remove his body afterwards. She would have had to have prepared a place to put him beforehand as it would be night-time in the desert when she got there, if the time stamps are correct. So I'm still undecided on that aspect.

bbm

This interests me. Do you by chance have a link to the photo you are referring to? Thanks.

 

[geevee]

bbm

This interests me. Do you by chance have a link to the photo you are referring to? Thanks.

Here's one I labeled and uploaded to Photobucket:

http://s1287.photobucket.com/user/g...t=3&o=10&_suid=136624860060908018542435983229

There's quite a few other pics I made screen shots of and uploaded in that album, copy any you like and play with them.

I uploaded two more showing the knife handle.

http://s1287.photobucket.com/user/g...3&page=1&_suid=136624856925005102028625058284

 

[caroline]

I seriously do not think that she ever had any plans to cut up the body and take it with her. TA was almost 190 pounds. And it creeps me out thinking about her getting into the shower with his body and showering. Would there even be room with him on the floor?

I can't imagine how hard it was to manipulate his body back into the bathroom and into the shower! But it makes sense that she put him there because she bled on him.

Did they find any blood in the rental car? And does anyone know what time she left TA's home?

 

[geevee]

I seriously do not think that she ever had any plans to cut up the body and take it with her. TA was almost 190 pounds. And it creeps me out thinking about her getting into the shower with his body and showering. Would there even be room with him on the floor?

I can't imagine how hard it was to manipulate his body back into the bathroom and into the shower! But it makes sense that she put him there because she bled on him.

Did they find any blood in the rental car? And does anyone know what time she left TA's home?

As far as I can tell in that shoulder pic, it looks like the duvet cover (or something with buttons) is lying next to where they are on the floor, I can't figure a good reason for it being there, if she planned to kill him in the shower and leave him there, why put something drag-worthy nearby?

I think she left him on the floor, showered then managed to get him in and wash him off, the shower was running all of the time and you can see in the sitting pic it's already coming out onto the floor so it was slippery before any blood spilled.

The rental car guy testified there were 'kool-aid-looking stains' on the back and passenger seats and the floor mats were missing, that's all we've heard about it so far, maybe (hopefully) more in rebuttal.

One roommate said he thinks he came home between 6:00 and 6:30 but both were confused about days and times that week so I don't think either are too reliable, all we truly have are the time stamps on the pictures.