weekend discussion: discuss the trial here #154

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I noticed a lot of posts about this Juror question. I finally got a chance to review it via a youtube recently put up. I think many have missed the exact wording of this question. And when I looked at it, I have no doubt that Dr D gave the only Correct reply. Of course it had to be discounted, and I think you'll all see that, once you look at it again with the exact question. Most of the posts only mention a Bear or Tiger, and forgot that the Juror added that it was a Lie.

The main point, and everyone seems to forget, is = its a LIE to start with in the Juror's question.

If a person began with a LIE then the rest of the answers can't be taken as truthful. There is no way to know what to believe....IOW the person can't be trusted


Exact Question Quoted:

"""Hypothetically, if a person suffered PTSD because of a bear attack while hiking would you throw out their PDS test if they lied and said it was a tiger?"""


Jodi Arias Trial - Day 50 - Part 5 (Juror Questions)
http://w.com/watch?v=YDO0bqaIbmk

Published on Apr 18, 2013

18/04/2013

[ also, you can't coach for an unknown coming Juror's question, plus Dr. D only needs to be Honest, as she has ]

Dr. DeMarte did a good job answering the question. It made sense and I trust her.

The jury knows Arias lied. I don't think anyone would dispute that. The sticking point for myself and others is that the question the juror asked is not at all analogous to Arias' lying on her test. So, the implication is that, if it was meant to be analogous to Arias' situation, there's a deficit in that jurors reasoning which doesn't bode well for down the line.

That's my worry, anyway. Maybe the juror will have been swayed by Dr. DeMarte's answer, but again, the core of the question is concerning.
 
I agree with you.....till I saw that "Cancun PPL" is on the states rebuttal list. IIRC, there has been quite a bit made of the fact that Jodi was NEVER going to Cancun, and that she knew all about it and was not upset.

But wait......what is "Cancun PPL"? is there a part of this company that works on putting together this annual trip? it IS an annual event for the company. If that is correct and Cancun PPL refers to a certain "department" in the company.....well, we might just find out that A) Jodie WAS originally scheduled to go, thus catching her in another lie. Or B) that Jodi switched Mimi's name out for hers somehow for the trip....which would play into the same lie, or could also be the underlying cause for Travis's text or email or whatever in late May. Seems like the timing would be about right for him to be getting his plane ressies/ tickets, etc.

Just wondering about silly stuff with no trial to discuss........

not silly. i think you may be on to something here. i didn't know they were on the witness list. can't WAIT!!!!!!
 
I think JA claimed she opted for a rental because her Infinity used too much gas, and she was making a long trip.

Re her blonde hair.. I think it's possible the rental guy had her drivers' license showing her with blonde hair, wrote down the number/address from it, and later mistakenly thought she arrived in Redding as a blonde. IIRC the pics of Jodi with blonde hair at her friend Patty's wedding was in July 08 before her arrest. If so, it's telling that the brown hair was gone asap after serving its purpose.

IIRC The first car the rental agency offered her was red. She asked for a white car so it wouldn't "stand out". (Wasn't a cop magnet. Righ-h-ht, Jodi!)

Also, It is my understanding Patty's wedding was in 2004. Which is why I'm so intrigued by Jodi's crooked left ring finger in the wedding video. :twocents:
 
If she planned to take the camera with her, then why take the time to delete photos before she left Travis's house with everything else she had to clean up and the risk of one or both of the roommates coming home? She could have easily waited until she was on the road and away from the crime scene. Or why not simply take the memory card and leave the camera behind? The camera was a recent purchase for the Cancun trip and she took credit for helping Travis decide on which one to buy. In her mind, I think she believed that taking it would put a spotlight on her. Why would Travis's killer take the camera, yet leave his laptop, phone and other electronics? Whether she had taken the camera with her, or accidentally or intentionally put it in the wash, her actions demonstrated that she had the presence of mind to delete 10+ photos and doesn't comport with her PTSD-related fog-nesia. IMO, I think Jodi thought the wash cycle would ruin the camera and make the memory card unusable. Though she thinks she's the smartest person in the room, I honestly don't think it occurred to her that the police/investigators would be able to recover the deleted images. The camera is one of a boatload of mistakes she made while attempting to cover her tracks before, during and after the murder. Poor execution doesn't let her off the hook for premeditation.

BBM - I always thought that would have been the easy (and more time-saving) solution. Might she have feared there was some other sort of memory in the camera other than the card?

And I don't think it would be a matter of not wanting to be accused of theft, because she testified that she stole his gun in effect.

It's weird. I tend to think it accidentally wound up in the wash when she grabbed towels and clothes.
 
You make some very good points. I think the defense has definately done a good job of putting their exact thoughts out in front of the jury, basically doing the thinking for them so they don't have to try to figure anything out. But Juan has been less this way, part of it from jumping from point to point, so I really hope he puts everything together in rebuttal and closing. I also think he wants the jurors to think for themselve, and not be confined to ONE way of how the crime was committed, b/c then maybe some people will be thinking of a DIFFERENT way, and it will end with a hung jury. He wants to focus on the big picture, not the EXACT way everything happened on June 4, which no one knows and prob will never know.

What makes me absolutely livid, and I hope the jurors feel the same way, is that the person who can answer ALL the questions is the one sitting there who was on the stand for 18 days. She has all the answers But she refused to give it to them - she refused to tell the truth. I hope it bothers them that they have so many questions, and yet the person who could have given it to them LIED straight to their faces.


IMO, Jodi condemned herself the day she decided she was smart enough to testify.
 
She had owned a car, though, and the registration could still be in her wallet along with all the other forgotten stuff, like we all do (or at least I do!).

But you reminded me of one of the rather odd things JA said to Det. Flores during his interrogation of her:

Jodi: They got my driver’s license. It has a P.O. Box on it. And they got my registration from my purse, which was the purse I was using at the time, which has my parent’s address on it.

I still can't figure out why she said that part I bolded above. What other purse would she have had with her but the one she was using at the time? Maybe to explain why her registration wasn't in the purse she had when they arrested her? I find it a constant struggle to figure out why she says what she says.

I have to laugh at some of Jodi's lies...... a driver's license with a P.O. box instead of an address?!?! I don't think so....
 
yes. Once they "abandon' her like a hot potato, I predict some interesting behavior.

One benefit of LWOP over the DP is that there's no automatic appeal with a new set of lawyers for Jodi to manipulate.
 
:dunno:

She had wounds on her hands?
* just a guess
but she could crop her hands out -

I can't figure out why she wouldn't document her alibi
in photographs.
Sure sounds like she didn't strip nude for Ryan.
She didn't stay long.

it is odd.

I'd say she also didn't want any photo evidence of her recent hair color change.
 
If there had been a commitment ring, then I agree, it would have been one intended for Deanna given their lengthy relationship. Someone in an earlier thread said the ring was intended for a woman named Linda, whom I had never heard of. The poster "RaisinCharlie" said HLN was discussing the "engagement ring" yet the picture they showed to accompany the story was the CTR ring. Hence my post with the hypothetical about this particular ring.

I saw that HLN and if I remember right it was Beth who said the ring had been for Linda. Them showing the CTR ring? Since when is it new that HLN and others use file photos whether they are germane or not?
 
not silly. i think you may be on to something here. i didn't know they were on the witness list. can't WAIT!!!!!!

If true that Jodi cold have substituted her name in the place of Mii's, maybe that was the trigger for the email of May 26th where Travis called her a sociopath.
 
Interesting thing I learned from rewatching the evidence testimony on day two---Jodi wasn't really wearing her glasses. This is when the lady was pulling out towels and sheets, etc. For almost that whole time, I didn't see the glasses at all.
 
What is the PTSD scenario that defense wants to blame this on?
The day of the murder or the way JA claimed she was treated by Travis or Other boyfriends or parents. I am confused on what they want to pin the PTSD on.
If it is parents or boyfriends including Travis is that where the bear or tiger come in? I guess I haven't picked up on what the defense is aiming at.

Seems like the defense is trying to pin PTSD on everything that ever happened in her fricking life. Like some kind of generic PSTD.
 
I have posted about this several times. My hinky meter went up during one of the interview tapes between Jodi and Det Flores. I would have to go back and find it but, in it, Det Flores is asking questions about what happened to make her go to Mesa and when she decided to make the trip. (He wasn't buying her "it was a spur of the moment" decision)

In that exchange, she responds to Det Flores with (paraphrased): "Travis was always much more concerned about my money than he should be. He wanted to know how I could afford to go on my trips."

I've always thought that was an odd response. I think it's possible she pulled a scam on him involving money, or the car or something and he found out about it. The checks she left behind have never felt right for me.

ITA, and think that was the scam he refers to in one of his last texts. He found out, confronted her, and she knew she was in hot water. I think it all comes out in the end.
 
If you listen closely to the things Det. Flores says to her in the interrogations, I think she got the idea that he was hinting to her to make up a story involving someone else.

Long before she makes up the ninja tale he says things about not finding any evidence of anyone else being there, etc. and even tells her she has to give him more, 'their details' - I think that's why the ninja story is so dumb, she thought he was going to help her make something believable up.

They did talk on the phone a few times before he came to Yreka and she is used to being able to manipulate people so I don't think it's too far out there to think she thought the nice detective was going help the maiden in distress as so many men have previously.

LOL, she probably thought at that point, that Det. F. was her boyfriend. :floorlaugh:
 
Probably because he couldn't do anything more than speculate as to the contents of the May 26th phone calls. We know something set Travis off in a big way at that time, but we don't know what -- and Jodi isn't going to tell us (not that at this point we could believe her no matter what she said.) It would have been very nice to be able to present a precipitant event to the jury, but there was no solid foundation. Even were he able to prove she had stolen the ring (and absent of her own statement regarding that there is no basis for fact there), he wouldn't have been able to tie that to her trip to Mesa without some corroborating evidence (such as a text message) from Travis or JA.

:cow:

But....JM brought it in in rebuttal, so why not CIC?
 
I think we're trying to project sophistication onto a question that was really just the juror's best use of what they considered interchangeable examples.

Yes, I agree. Especially since he/she said something like "what if it was two animals..." so basically they're saying they think of bear and tiger as the same general thing. I am thinking maybe this juror doesn't actually believe Jodi has PTSD, but maybe he took issue with DeMarte saying that the results of the test would be different whether she was reporting ninjas or Travis. Maybe he doesn't actually believe Travis attacked Jodi, but still thinks it would count as a traumatic event if hypothetically it happened. Which I would think it would be too if it actually happened. Problem is it never happened, I hope jury realizes that by now. Sounds like he was just testing Demarte.
 
Do you think you could do any better?
The defense is stuck with a fantasy story made up by an ill person. What do you expect them to do? They are doing the best they can with what they got. On the other hand the prosecution has it on easy street. Do you think it is JM is the only person that can crack this case open? Think about it.

I agree that the defense has a horrendous uphill battle, and have put on an amazingly good defense despite the enormous obstacle (i.e., Jodi Arias) to doing so.

However, in doing this job---which they have done quite well, content-wise--they are NOT doing a good job of containing their misery. They were assigned this case, and it's a monstrous one. Yes, they get media attention---and therefore the potential for hugely bolstered careers. (Before this, Jennifer Willmott primarily defended DUI cases; this is HUGE for her, no matter what yardstick you use to measure and compare.) Instead of taking this dog of a case and defending it both well AND professionally, though, both Willmott and Nurmi have chosen only the former. Professionalism? No--Willmott has been a petulant cheerleader. Nurmi has been a nose-picking, shirt-untucked slob.

Both have, indeed, set forth a damn good case, given the near-indefensible situation with which they were confronted. They have not done so in a way that reflects particularly well on them, IMO.

So yes, I think I could do better, actually.

As for Juan Martinez, yes--in fact I DO think that the State needed him, specifically, to prosecute this case. First, his record is impeccable. Very plainly, he gets convictions. Secondly, he is a HUGE champion for victim's rights. He fights tooth and nail to ensure that justice is served. And he succeeds. Most importantly, he keeps the victim and his family in the forefront of his mind, and works tremendously hard to do the best job he can for them and for the State and society as a whole (because Jodi Arias, if acquitted, can go anywhere she wants for her next kill---and yes, there will be more if she ever sees freedom again).

He didn't "crack the case open" as you snidely suggest. The case didn't need cracking---it was evident to every thinking person, from Day One, that Jodi Arias is a whackjob who, for whatever depraved reason flooded her sick mind, felt fully entitled to kill Travis Alexander, believing that she'd either get away completely or--if caught--be able to extricate herself from any legal fallout because, well, she's always been able to manipulate and seduce her way out of any problem. (Watch the films with Flores again; she clearly plays damsel in distress, even when she knows the jig is up; she thinks she can charm her way out of an arrest for slaughtering a man. Not just killing, brutally slaughtering. Because she wanted to. And that certainty of her ability to outsmart, charm, and seduce her way out has been evident in EVERY performance she's given since--whether on TV newsmagazines or on the witness stand.

Only, as convinced as she is of her wiles, they didn't work. The evidence screams guilt----and her dead eyes (even when she's smiling and singing sweet, or earnestly testifying about the "abuse" she endured) don't elude many.

Good God, when the first words out of a murderess's father's mouth include a declaration that he suspected her from the outset, you know you're on to the truth. (That the jury will not see this because of its highly prejudicial nature is unfortunate; we do NOT see "the truth, the whole truth..." in the guilt phase of a death penalty case. However, I suspect that the penalty phase will include a great deal more revelation of the true nature of the defendant's psychopathologies/psychopathy. THAT is when the prosecution can pull out all the stops.)

The case didn't need cracking. But Jodi Arias does need to be removed from society forever. And Juan Martinez is--whether you like him or not--the man best qualified to ensure that job is done, and done well. Look at his prosecutorial record.
 
I have to laugh at some of Jodi's lies...... a driver's license with a P.O. box instead of an address?!?! I don't think so....

The drivers license in her possession has a PO Box address. This struck me as odd, since I have never heard of a state allowing PO boxes as physical addresses. You have to usually have 2 documents proving you have a physical address. I would think that Calif. license is a fake, imo.
 
I don't understand that at all. I noticed almost every time JW asked Dr. Demarte a question and she would begin her answer, Nurmi would break out in a huge smile, verging on laughter. This is a trial about a man who was slaughtered.... not mention, his client's life is on the line.... literally. What's there to be laughing or snickering about? After the jury has been excused for the day or for a break is one thing, but while court is in session, I think it's unprofessional and uncalled for.

I honestly didn't understand the DT's obvious disdain for this witness. Willmott did not operate this way when she crossed the ME IIRC. He shut her down pretty quick and she finished up her cross without belaboring her point. Many posters here expressed their embarrassment for Willmott's floundering with Dr. Demarte. IMHO I think their desperation was cranked up a notch when the testimony of the only two real witnesses (other than the known liar herself) that they had was going up in flames.

But when you think about it, there have been so many childish antics by the DT throughout this trial that nothing surprises me anymore. I think the judge had to step in after ALV's cheering section burst into laughter (which included the mitigation specialist), and reign them in some. I notice her patience for their constant objections and approaches has worn a little thinner lately.
 
That is one of the scales that indicated borderline personality disorder.

Do you know if the jury will be allowed to speak to the media immediately after their verdict if they vote to convict? I was just wondering if they might have to stay quiet until after the aggravation / mitigation phase. TIA
 
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