weekend discussion: discuss the trial here #154

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I agree that the defense has a horrendous uphill battle, and have put on an amazingly good defense despite the enormous obstacle (i.e., Jodi Arias) to doing so.

However, in doing this job---which they have done quite well, content-wise--they are NOT doing a good job of containing their misery. They were assigned this case, and it's a monstrous one. Yes, they get media attention---and therefore the potential for hugely bolstered careers. (Before this, Jennifer Willmott primarily defended DUI cases; this is HUGE for her, no matter what yardstick you use to measure and compare.) Instead of taking this dog of a case and defending it both well AND professionally, though, both Willmott and Nurmi have chosen only the former. Professionalism? No--Willmott has been a petulant cheerleader. Nurmi has been a nose-picking, shirt-untucked slob.

Both have, indeed, set forth a damn good case, given the near-indefensible situation with which they were confronted. They have not done so in a way that reflects particularly well on them, IMO.

So yes, I think I could do better, actually.

As for Juan Martinez, yes--in fact I DO think that the State needed him, specifically, to prosecute this case. First, his record is impeccable. Very plainly, he gets convictions. Secondly, he is a HUGE champion for victim's rights. He fights tooth and nail to ensure that justice is served. And he succeeds. Most importantly, he keeps the victim and his family in the forefront of his mind, and works tremendously hard to do the best job he can for them and for the State and society as a whole (because Jodi Arias, if acquitted, can go anywhere she wants for her next kill---and yes, there will be more if she ever sees freedom again).

He didn't "crack the case open" as you snidely suggest. The case didn't need cracking---it was evident to every thinking person, from Day One, that Jodi Arias is a whackjob who, for whatever depraved reason flooded her sick mind, felt fully entitled to kill Travis Alexander, believing that she'd either get away completely or--if caught--be able to extricate herself from any legal fallout because, well, she's always been able to manipulate and seduce her way out of any problem. (Watch the films with Flores again; she clearly plays damsel in distress, even when she knows the jig is up; she thinks she can charm her way out of an arrest for slaughtering a man. Not just killing, brutally slaughtering. Because she wanted to. And that certainty of her ability to outsmart, charm, and seduce her way out has been evident in EVERY performance she's given since--whether on TV newsmagazines or on the witness stand.

Only, as convinced as she is of her wiles, they didn't work. The evidence screams guilt----and her dead eyes (even when she's smiling and singing sweet, or earnestly testifying about the "abuse" she endured) don't elude many.

Good God, when the first words out of a murderess's father's mouth include a declaration that he suspected her from the outset, you know you're on to the truth. (That the jury will not see this because of its highly prejudicial nature is unfortunate; we do NOT see "the truth, the whole truth..." in the guilt phase of a death penalty case. However, I suspect that the penalty phase will include a great deal more revelation of the true nature of the defendant's psychopathologies/psychopathy. THAT is when the prosecution can pull out all the stops.)

The case didn't need cracking. But Jodi Arias does need to be removed from society forever. And Juan Martinez is--whether you like him or not--the man best qualified to ensure that job is done, and done well. Look at his prosecutorial record.

Agree with everything you said, except for the defense doing a good job.
If doing a good job is assisting your client in lying and trashing a dead man, then they have done a heck of a job. I just hope they don't sleep at night after doing their "good" job. They would make more money just being a hit man for the mob. Same amount of respect from the public.
 
Det Flores visited Jodi more in Yreka than Travis, the man she was gonna marry, ever did.
 
Ack. I have to say, ME TOO. When that question was asked and her answer was so short, as if answering a test question given by a superior, I was concerned. That people are confused as to why and or if her answer is correct is something that should be addressed. You know, I've almost lost track of why the DT thinks PTSD even matters, now that the idea that a crime scene being disordered means the crime wasn't planned was thrown out by the judge. Did they then attribute the memory loss to PTSD? Somehow, that's what I'm recalling. Given some of the previous jury questions, I had a feeling that there was or might be psych professional among them. I sure hope so, as that person can explain in deliberation. :please:

Yes, the DT was trying arguing both points, that the memory loss was from the trauma, and that the crime scene meant self defense, but they weren't allowed to say much, if anything, on the latter.
 
Det Flores visited Jodi more in Yreka than Travis, the man she was gonna marry, ever did.

Yeah, imo, he had no intention of making a trip out there. He was shining her on. You could tell in the phone tape, he wasn't into it.
 
I don't want to provide her name online, but she and her husband are mentioned in Flores' police report re statements from all the witnesses he'd talked to. This young lady was separated from her husband and had provided an anonymous tip citing her ex as someone police might want to speak to concerning Travis' murder iirc.

I remember the name also. But good Lord, I didn't know, never heard, she committed suicide. Awful.
 
Maybe Travis told Jodi Mimi was not going. Jodi begged him to take her.

Travis says no, she then proceeds to hack into his accounts, he finds out and ie beyond pizzed.

Afterall, this would be a good opportunity to make him jealous since there were would be many men there. (Gus S. etc.)

There were many motives imo. Now I think she stole the ring upon moving from AZ.
Revenge for Rejection is the biggest one.

I agree with you.....till I saw that "Cancun PPL" is on the states rebuttal list. IIRC, there has been quite a bit made of the fact that Jodi was NEVER going to Cancun, and that she knew all about it and was not upset.

But wait......what is "Cancun PPL"? is there a part of this company that works on putting together this annual trip? it IS an annual event for the company. If that is correct and Cancun PPL refers to a certain "department" in the company.....well, we might just find out that A) Jodie WAS originally scheduled to go, thus catching her in another lie. Or B) that Jodi switched Mimi's name out for hers somehow for the trip....which would play into the same lie, or could also be the underlying cause for Travis's text or email or whatever in late May. Seems like the timing would be about right for him to be getting his plane ressies/ tickets, etc.

Just wondering about silly stuff with no trial to discuss........
 
Dr. D was coached to say the results would be invalid period. Very obvious. The jury knows she is on the take.

I think you have it exactly backwards, IMO. It seems more likely that Dr. D raised this problem with the ninja story making the PDS invalid to JM, and then JM used it.
 
BBM
I'd like to address that. My brother borrowed $500 from me to get his car fixed. Not 2 weeks later, he took his family on a trip to the beach. He never paid me back the $500. Yet, he's telling me his wife is at the tanning beds, (getting ready for their trip) It kinda ticks you off to know that somebody owes you money, isn't paying it back, yet they have plenty of money to blow on other things. I wanted to say to my brother....how can you afford this trip, new clothes, tanning, etc.....but you can't pay me back? She owed him for the car she destroyed, she wasn't concerned that she owed that money, and instead she was spending hand over fist. Here's what Travis was saying in a nice way.........How can you stand in front of me and talk about blowing money, when you still owe me for my car? He wasn't trying to contol her spending, he just wanted his dang money!

Yep, that certainly makes sense.
 
I have to keep reminding myself that jurors haven't had a discussion about the case yet. Can you imagine the day of deliberations? Bet they are busting to talk!:woohoo:

:seeya: I can't imagine being a juror on this case, not being able to discuss it for all these months! I do believe I'd have to put duct tape over my mouth.

In other related news: I had jury duty on April 1... To make a long story short, my group of 12 was in the jury box about to be voir dired in front of the defendant... The defendant started crying as the reality of her potential trial set in, and her defense attorney arranged for my group of 12 to wait in the jury deliberation room while she consulted with her client. We were advised not to discuss the case.

So I took it upon myself to lead discussion regarding the evidence in the Jodi Arias case instead, and by the time we were asked back into the courtroom, we had reached a verdict of Guilty of Murder in the 1st Degree. It only took us 45 minutes of deliberation to reach that verdict! :woohoo:

Anyway, just thought my fellow WSers would appreciate my most recent jury duty experience, since I managed to make it about JA. :crazy:
 
That's my belief. She had bigger things to worry about. I don't understand why she bothered doing laundry in the first place. Instead of doing a wash, I would have focused on getting my palm print off the wall and getting clumps of my hair from the floor. Not that I'd murder anyone but ...

I think the one unadulterated truth she's ever told about the murder is that she had no memory of putting the camera in the washer. Literally, she didn't remember doing it because it was tossed in by accident. When she said she didn't know why she would do that, I think that was true. She's probably asked herself a thousand times, "How in h$ll could I have done that?"

I think the camera was entangled in the bedding she pulled off to drag Travis to the bathroom. She picked up the bundle, took it to the washer and started tossing things in indiscriminately. She missed the camera during both washes.

The camera was a part of the wash by accident. I'm sure she wasted precious minutes looking for the camera because she wanted to take it with her. She was already taking the gun, knife, cash from Travis and Lord knows what else.

I don't understand the reasoning why she focused on one thing and not another while getting out of the house except her fog was actually serious panic.

BBM: I think she "did the laundry" to get her DNA off the sheets and bloody towels. She missed the bloody palm print because there was so much blood everywhere. Unless one is experienced in crime scene investigation I doubt someone would even recognize that what they were looking at was a palm print.

Re:The camera. She did go to the trouble/time to delete 23 pix. It's been said there are 5 actions required to delete one photo on that camera. (I still don't know why Jodi didn't remove the memory card, her having an IQ comparable to Einstein, and all.) And I REALLY like our sleuth Dana's theory about removing her DNA from the camera by running it thru the wash cycle.

I'm not disagreeing with you. Just throwing out my :twocents:
 
Yeah well, I don't like that fake Asian accent he puts on or his Kinkade "paintings". I do like his content and trial observations however.

I don't think that is a "fake Asian accent." I think he has a speech impediment where he never learned to pronounce his "L"s and this speech pattern is how he compensates. I noticed it at first, but like any disability, once you get used to it, it becomes invisible.

And his wife might be responsible for the home decor. I don't know a lot of men who are that particular. My hubby pretty much lets me choose the colors and art. Whether he likes it or not. :whipper: :smooch:
 
This came up a week or so ago. Despite her claim that she was never scheduled to go on the Cancun trip and wasn't upset when TA decided to take someone else, JA was on the initial reservation and it was later changed to Mimi. I think that fact, among other things, is what the PPL representative will testify to.

Chris and Sky Hughes honeymooned at a Cancun resort, I think but could be wrong, prior to his rise at PPL. The article below has info about Hughes - his upbringing similar to TA's, his departure from PPL, and his new venture. It could be that in 2008 "Cancun PPL" was synonymous with Hughes, being an annual event he and Sky hosted/attended as a family and as a reward for certain others close to them. If so, no way Jodi was on the invite list by 2008.

http://www.teamrenew.com/teamrenew-founders
 
I think she took advantage of her 'outstanding' vocabulary skills to add in peculiar and out of context details, such as your bolded, to draw the questioner's attention away from the subject at hand.

She did it throughout her interrogation and testimony, and I believe she also did it with Travis when he was particularly annoyed at her.

Commonly known as 'Baffle them with Bull****'

This reminds me, I have always been curious as to why she suddenly said "You're so weird anyway" to Det. Flores when he pointed out a lie detector test might help her, not him.

After hearing Dr. DM describe the rapid switch from love to hate, and back again, as one of the BPD characteristics, I realised that she thought she had been winning Flores over until he made that comment. At that point, he was deemed Jodi Enemy Number One.
I always thought she used high-faluting, sometimes made up words and talked in meaningless circles with 99% lies, 2% fairy tale/someone's truth, plus a lot of names she stole from movies.... JMHO, of course. She drove me ABSOLUTELY bonkers during her loooong direct.
 
Yes. Even her father thought she was going to marry Travis, as per the Flores interview tapes.

She had everyone convinced, even her own family! Isn't odd that not one of them ever met him?

Det Flores visited Jodi more in Yreka than Travis, the man she was gonna marry, ever did.
 
"""Hypothetically, if a person suffered PTSD because of a bear attack while hiking would you throw out their PDS test if they lied and said it was a tiger?"""


Dr. DeMarte did a good job answering the question. It made sense and I trust her.

The jury knows Arias lied. I don't think anyone would dispute that. The sticking point for myself and others is that the question the juror asked is not at all analogous to Arias' lying on her test. So, the implication is that, if it was meant to be analogous to Arias' situation, there's a deficit in that jurors reasoning which doesn't bode well for down the line.

That's my worry, anyway. Maybe the juror will have been swayed by Dr. DeMarte's answer, but again, the core of the question is concerning.

I am not seeing your point about the juror mentioning lying in the question. To me, it sounds like they are saying that the bear attack happened while the tiger attack didn't. I think they are saying, "if Jodi suffered PTSD because of Travis attacking her, would you throw out her PDS test if she lied and said the ninjas are attacking her." So wouldn't that mean they think that the truth is that Travis attacked her?
 
Why would she have to be coached to state the results are invalid? It's obvious even to non-experts. Even Samuels said he should have re-administered the test once he found out the traumatic event, upon which all other conclusions were based, was a lie.

Thank you Minor 4th!
 
Dr. D was coached to say the results would be invalid period. Very obvious. The jury knows she is on the take.

Not obvious to me. It's obvious to me you have it backwards. The idea that professional psychologists should say that a false answer on a test should not invalidate the results is balmy to me. That would be bad scientific practice. :twocents:

She also gave all the reasons why she knows JA doesn't have PTSD by going over how she didn't meet the criteria. There is no doubt she did not and does not have PTSD related to the killing.
 
I don't understand that at all. I noticed almost every time JW asked Dr. Demarte a question and she would begin her answer, Nurmi would break out in a huge smile, verging on laughter. This is a trial about a man who was slaughtered.... not mention, his client's life is on the line.... literally. What's there to be laughing or snickering about? After the jury has been excused for the day or for a break is one thing, but while court is in session, I think it's unprofessional and uncalled for.
I DID wonder exactly WHO he might have been laughing at
 
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