Poll for the Armchair Psychologists

[Lorelilly]

I'm new to the WS community as well. I've been watching the trial since it began and related videos. My background is incomplete in criminology. But my fascination remains. I do have experience with an individual, female, who I believed was AS. In considering what I've seen with JA, I've changed that to AsBPD. With JA though, I see her as AsBPD/NOS. I would like to know more about her childhood as well. If you have not seen the full videos of her parents during discussions with Detective Flores, that is a good place to start. Though I found them relatively guarded, there were some interesting expressions.

Briefly, from the father, this one showed me that the parents are united. He indicated that when JA would call, she would scream at "my wife." He didn't say, her mother. Has he dismissed her? If he had, I would have thought he would have been more forthcoming about his daughters behaviors from early on. If you're able to view the videos, I would be interested in your opinions from your standpoint.

Welcome to WS by the way!:seeya:

I thought the "my wife" comment was telling as well. And I can't remember if it was the Mother or Father who said Jodi HID everything from them and she didn't invite them to the house she shared with Darryl because she was afraid they would "search through her things."

Then I remembered the incident where Travis and Jodi were somewhere on a trip together and a third party friend emptied Jodi's backpack out and she had a fit.

I have no idea about what she is or isn't but is there anything telling in the way she is so "guarded" about herself and her belongings?

 

[Cate49]

SMK: your here!

 

[Lorelilly]

A foot note to an earlier post that maybe of interest to some. That there is some evidence supporting more prevalent narcism seen in children in the western world. Based on the childhood narcism scale ( CNS) as a result of over praising. Which is a conundrum since on is supposed to instill praise to build confidence. This is were Cate's head gets sore and she defers this to the professionals that post.

TIME magazines cover story, May 20, 2013, is entitled, The Me Me Me Generation. (Millennials are lazy, entitled narcissists who still live with they're parents - Why they'll save us all) Very interesting and if you think too hard about it you'll get an upset stomach and a headache, trust me, I have a 23 year old daughter.

 

[Cate49]

Sorry I have not read all the posts on this page but I will promise. Must ask this question to everyone. Does she want death or is this another manipulation? She is a wild card for me and I am not sure if she is being truthful or not. I watch the locked up documentaries on MSN. It seems death row is easier time as they have their own cell and it is quiet. The noise in prisons is constant and I don't know how people sleep. In some states they have the cat program for death row inmates. Ofcourse they can't have any animal abuse in their history. The cats are actually calming to the prisoners and it gives both the unconditional love that many people and cats have never experienced.

 

[SMK]

SMK: your here!

yip

 

[SMK]

Sorry I have not read all the posts on this page but I will promise. Must ask this question to everyone. Does she want death or is this another manipulation? She is a wild card for me and I am not sure if she is being truthful or not. I watch the locked up documentaries on MSN. It seems death row is easier time as they have their own cell and it is quiet. The noise in prisons is constant and I don't know how people sleep. In some states they have the cat program for death row inmates. Ofcourse they can't have any animal abuse in their history. The cats are actually calming to the prisoners and it gives both the unconditional love that many people and cats have never experienced.

I think she wants both death row and death.

I don't see it as manipulative. She said in her interview, "Death is the ultimate liberation" , and she may be right.

There is likely far less judgement at death than there is here - Travis may be so transcendent he may well forgive her, having the full knowledge of human life and development he would be bound to have in that realm. This is how I see it, in any case.

 

[Lorelilly]

Sorry I have not read all the posts on this page but I will promise. Must ask this question to everyone. Does she want death or is this another manipulation? She is a wild card for me and I am not sure if she is being truthful or not. I watch the locked up documentaries on MSN. It seems death row is easier time as they have their own cell and it is quiet. The noise in prisons is constant and I don't know how people sleep. In some states they have the cat program for death row inmates. Ofcourse they can't have any animal abuse in their history. The cats are actually calming to the prisoners and it gives both the unconditional love that many people and cats have never experienced.

She's a tough one to figure out and I'm negative in the IQ department next to most of you in this thread. She's been locked up since July of 2008 so she has to know what the "rest of her life" is going to be like.

Truthfully, I think she actually thought she was going to get Murder 2 or less and it's just now sinking in that she is never going to be a free woman again, ever.

If she gets the DP I imagine she'll see herself as being crucified and she'll cultivate that to the nth degree. Anyway you put it she is fascinating in the most horrific way and I for one can't look away.

(that speaks volumes about me I guess. I'm not crazy though, I swear)

 

[Cate49]

Hip2BSquare: it concerns me when mental illness is viewed as spiritual possession. It was not that long ago that seizures were viewed as possession by spirits. The disservice to those living with or affected by mental illness is great when using the term "evil" in a clinical diagnosis. I do not refute the possibility of possession but i do question whom the person is deeming one as evil.

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

But there is the crux and the paradox: If through genetics OR abuse and trauma, the brain is abnormal and develops and functions abnormally, then of course no path of evil is chosen at all. You cannot have it both ways: Brain abnormality plus free will to do evil. It is either/or. We are either our brains, or we are free souls. You cannot have metaphysics and brain science, both.

Actually, you can. When in terms of altruism, or what makes one human selflessly give their life for another, there is no genetic variable. Altruism is contrary to all scientific theory about evolution and humans want to maintain their own genetic fitness.

Scientists cannot determine what makes people, some more than others, altruistic. One famous scientists in particular went crazy trying discover the biological/genetic mechanisms that would cause one to be altruistic and put others above themselves. For me in my opinion, altruism defies scientific understanding. It is unique to humans alone and is what makes us such a powerful/civilized/gracious species when compared to most (not all) other mammals and other complex organisms.

Then again I fully support those who do not believe one can espouse both neuroscience and metaphysical/spiritual belief simultaneously.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Hip2BSquare: it concerns me when mental illness is viewed as spiritual possession. It was not that long ago that seizures were viewed as possession by spirits. The disservice to those living with or affected by mental illness is great when using the term "evil" in a clinical diagnosis. I do not refute the possibility of possession but i do question whom the person is deeming one as evil.

I refute the possibility of possession. Jodi is very defective human being, an anomaly. It happens.


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[Cate49]

Sometimes death is too easy.

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

And in terms of people like Jodi, her IQ and mental faculties are such that her logical mind was involved enough in premeditation and covering up of the murder that she was aware and in control of her actions. She knew what she was doing was wrong. She just thought she was smart enough to get away with it. Freaked out once she realized thre would be consequences to her actions.

She did understand there were consequences for her actions. She was not insane. She just believed she was warranted in what she did. Even now she has not said she is sorry. Bc she's not. She is a narcissist who can only have remourse for herself. She is incapable of understanding that other people and their wants/needs are as important as hers.

I'd say the front right lobe is what is more dysfunctional, as she scored very low math/logic on her IQ. Her front left lone had to compensate for the right which is why she enjoys hobbies involving emotion and left brain faculties. Problem is, with a rocky subconscious under these lobes - her emotions would easily overcome her logic - coupled with narcissism and fragmentation .... Whew! What a monster.

We need to keep her locked up forever and study her brain so we can figure out what her damage is and how to fix if in order to stop another murder like this from happening.

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

I refute the possibility of possession. Jodi is very defective human being, an anomaly. It happens.


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I was responding to another user who used the term evil and in hopes of not wanting to lecture them on why they shouldn't use the term, I suggested other terms for them to use to describe Jodi that are pertinent to psychology.

My comment about evil was to assure them I understood their point.

 

[Linda7NJ]

I was responding to another user who used the term evil and in hopes of not wanting to lecture them on why they shouldn't use the term, I suggested other terms for them to use to describe Jodi that are pertinent to psychology.

My comment about evil was to assure them I understood their point.

I know what ya meant, just throwing in my 2 cents I am the resident atheist




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[SMK]

Actually, you can. When in terms of altruism, or what makes one human selflessly give their life for another, there is no genetic variable. Altruism is contrary to all scientific theory about evolution and humans want to maintain their own genetic fitness.

Scientists cannot determine what makes people, some more than others, altruistic. One famous scientists in particular went crazy trying discover the biological/genetic mechanisms that would cause one to be altruistic and put others above themselves. For me in my opinion, altruism defies scientific understanding. It is unique to humans alone and is what makes us such a powerful/civilized/gracious species when compared to most (not all) other mammals and other complex organisms.

Then again I fully support those who do not believe one can espouse both neuroscience and metaphysical/spiritual belief simultaneously.

Well, it may well be that neuroscience is not as important as metaphysics, in the end. In that case, the current stressing of it may be a trend: What it is espousing is true, but not true enough, as it were.

I think true altruism may be seen in animals, and is in fact very rare in humans ( egoism, lying, cheating, extortion, dereliction of duty, rampant capitalism and competition : Daily news would seem to point to its being the exception rather than the rule). In cases where people send money to flood victims or help save a drowning person, Nietzsche would say that this is only some community/herd bond instinct.

I am stunned at how quickly people tend to label others or join in contempt for a scapegoat -- to me, this instinct for projection is the strongest human instinct there is, socially.

So yes, metaphysically speaking, there may be some sort of grace versus evil. But it would preclude any emphasis on brain science, as is the current rage. Not that the brain science is not true---but does it have the whole truth, or only a part of it?

 

[SMK]

And in terms of people like Jodi, her IQ and mental faculties are such that her logical mind was involved enough in premeditation and covering up of the murder that she was aware and in control of her actions. She knew what she was doing was wrong. She just thought she was smart enough to get away with it. Freaked out once she realized thre would be consequences to her actions.

She did understand there were consequences for her actions. She was not insane. She just believed she was warranted in what she did. Even now she has not said she is sorry. Bc she's not. She is a narcissist who can only have remourse for herself. She is incapable of understanding that other people and their wants/needs are as important as hers.

I'd say the front right lobe is what is more dysfunctional, as she scored very low math/logic on her IQ. Her front left lone had to compensate for the right which is why she enjoys hobbies involving emotion and left brain faculties. Problem is, with a rocky subconscious under these lobes - her emotions would easily overcome her logic - coupled with narcissism and fragmentation .... Whew! What a monster.

We need to keep her locked up forever and study her brain so we can figure out what her damage is and how to fix if in order to stop another murder like this from happening.

Again, maybe it is not her brain? Maybe it is her relationship to the transcendent or the ethical, as Kierkegaard would say. And then, no amount of studying her would give an answer....

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

Why do we keep calling it brain science?

Really demeaning.

Sorry. Love u guys, but...

 

[Cate49]

Sorry Hip2BSquare: thought evil was tour term sorry read out of content.

 

[Cate49]

General question asked prior thread but would like to see others opinion. Is Jodi a threat to society if she were released? Was travis's death an isolated event?

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

Again, maybe it is not her brain? Maybe it is her relationship to the transcendent or the ethical, as Kierkegaard would say. And then, no amount of studying her would give an answer....

Studying her brain would give many more answers.