Poll for the Armchair Psychologists

What Psychological Disorder do you think Jodi may have?

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SMK said:
I always believed she DID just want a simple shot to the head, no fuss , no mess (after all, who wants room mates and neighbors hearing a ruckus and calling 911 on you?)>>> the gun must have jammed, and then she went on an OMG panic attack, I must kill him before he runs for the neighbors or screams for them to call 911. I think she was silent and in a frenzy to disable him before 911 came with 2 squad cars and a firetruck.
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I do agree with much of this.
 
tralala1 said:
1. what do you think she said (if you think she talked/screamed) to Travis when the attack started or during the attack.

2. Do you think she said anything at all during the whole thing (or was she too focused on "getting the job done").

3. If he was screaming, I wonder if she could even make herself heard and if this upset her (darn it, he's not hearing my eloquent speech).

4. You'd think that she would want to say something to him because she didn't just shoot him in the head while he was turned around or sleeping--she wanted him to suffer, and mental suffering/revenge would seem to be most important at all to her. :(
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Sorry just outlined your questions/statements above to better organize my answer.

1. I believe that after they had sex and she realized he still was not going to be with her, she waited for the perfect moment that he would be vunlnerable and she could corner him with a gun. Te shower just do happened to be that place and the camera was just her excuse to get close to him so he wouldn't be suspicious of her presence outside the shower before she killed him.

Because he was crouched in such a vulnerable position, and she was using a gun, there's much symbolism behind all of this. It puts her in the position of CONTROL and guns are the most Masculine form of armory - even fairly phallic in look and function.

When we hear about Jodi, she crouches and gets in a fetal position when she has a breakdown/is depressed. This was her attempt to literally see Travis in the same position she felt she emotionally was. She was forcing Travis to feel what she felt, although every insecurity depression she felt as a direct result of her own poor character. "how does it feel to be the one begging now, Travis? I can't believe you think it's OK to treat people like this. Do you have anything to say for yourself?". And he probably said he was sorry and begged...

(What I wonder is if he said he was sorry, and after she accepted it and lowered the gun, he tried to unexpectedly grab it from her to secure it and she shot him in fear that he was trying to grab it to hurt her. Bc at this point she is an adrenaline and emotion pumped paranoid state, thinking everyone (ESP Travis) is against her.)

Otherwise she fired the gun despite his begging. but she fired it - with only one hand as the other held the camera - which made the gun kickback and the focus shifted causing the bullet to not cause the direct hit she intended.

Travis got out of the shower, writhing in pain but knowing that the gun had fallen on the ground and he might have a chance to grab it/get away.

Jodi only loaded one bullet. She had to find some other means that was around to finish him off. At this point she is in a panic and talking to herself trying to figure out what to do as the gun misfired.

She runs downstairs to the kitchen, finds a knife, and by the time she gets back up to Travis's room, Travis has crawled down the hallway towards his room and he is moaning/yelling louder. He is experiencing dizziness and low ambulatory/motor control.

She crouches over him from behind as he is facedown and stabs him in the back of the head, shoulders a few times, at this point she's still concentrating and isn't speaking. Just angry and stabbing - attack mode.

Hes still alive and is screaming.

then she flips him over and in an attempt to silence him she punctures his throat/windpipe first - not after much fighting on travis's part despite his state to get the knife away from her,

We can only assume at this point she was telling him to "shut the f up! Why wont you just shut up and die!" over and over again.

As she watched the life drain from him and he lost consciousness, she couldn't bare knowing the scene was botched and she had to resort to such personal means of killing him.

She just wanted this over with. She began to stab him indiscriminately

"Why couldn't you just make this easy? Why couldn't you just love me? Is it so hard to love me? I can't believe you ruined me! Why did you make me do this???". These sort of statements.

She thought she could control the scene.


All IMHO
 
ATasteOfHoney said:
Wow---does anyone remember the old "I Dream of Jeanie" where Jeanie (Barbara Eden) had an evil twin sister (also played by Barbara Eden sporting a black wig)?????

Yowza......like JA!!!!

:scared:
Click to expand...

EXACTLY! That's a great example. Didn't Samantha in Bewitched have a similar character? And think about Black Swan--not in terms of the hair, but in terms of the motif that white is good, black is evil...

This entire concept of good vs evil is why I am so obsessed with this case, along with the mental illness angle. Before I came to care deeply for Travis and his family, I saw this as a fascinating soap opera/murder mystery (now, of course, it's a tragedy). At first, I was intrigued by the unbelievable, truth-is-better-than-fiction "plot points" of this "story"--the camera taking pictures during the murder! the camera surviving the washer! the naked shower murder! the pretty sociopath! the handsome victim! the sex! the Mormon angle! the jurors asking questions of the defendant! all the "primary documents" like text messages, emails, interrogation tapes! what's her mental problem?! how could a normal, nice woman that might be your friend do this?! Do I know anyone at work or in my family or any acquaintance right now that could commit a horrific murder? But by the time the verdict came around, I saw this as a battle between good and evil, and that's why it meant so much! I screamed a primal "YES"!

Side note: I also have a feeling that Travis and Jodi had once had a conversation about the movie Psycho and that Travis had told her how terrifying that idea was for him--dying in the shower like that--and that's exactly why she did it. She literally became his worst and "darkest" nightmare.

Poor guy. My theory regarding why he let Jodi into his life in the first place and why he didn't see the evil/pathology in her at first is because his mother abused him mentally and physically. Children who are abused (so I've heard) sometimes choose abusive mates, perhaps since their "evilness radar" (for lack of a better term) just isn't as strong as that of other people. If someone you associated with love (a parent) was also evil to you, how could your radar be as strong? It's as if he was doubly punished in this life--so unfair!
 
tralala1 said:
EXACTLY! That's a great example. Didn't Samantha in Bewitched have a similar character? And think about Black Swan--not in terms of the hair, but in terms of the motif that white is good, black is evil...

This entire concept of good vs evil is why I am so obsessed with this case, along with the mental illness angle. Before I came to care deeply for Travis and his family, I saw this as a fascinating soap opera/murder mystery (now, of course, it's a tragedy). At first, I was intrigued by the unbelievable, truth-is-better-than-fiction "plot points" of this "story"--the camera taking pictures during the murder! the camera surviving the washer! the naked shower murder! the pretty sociopath! the handsome victim! the sex! the Mormon angle! the jurors asking questions of the defendant! all the "primary documents" like text messages, emails, interrogation tapes! what's her mental problem?! how could a normal, nice woman that might be your friend do this?! Do I know anyone at work or in my family or any acquaintance right now that could commit a horrific murder? But by the time the verdict came around, I saw this as a battle between good and evil, and that's why it meant so much! I screamed a primal "YES"!

Side note: I also have a feeling that Travis and Jodi had once had a conversation about the movie Psycho and that Travis had told her how terrifying that idea was for him--dying in the shower like that--and that's exactly why she did it. She literally became his worst and "darkest" nightmare.

Poor guy. My theory regarding why he let Jodi into his life in the first place and why he didn't see the evil/pathology in her at first is because his mother abused him mentally and physically. Children who are abused (so I've heard) sometimes choose abusive mates, perhaps since their "evilness radar" (for lack of a better term) just isn't as strong as that of other people. If someone you associated with love (a parent) was also evil to you, how could your radar be as strong? It's as if he was doubly punished in this life--so unfair!
Click to expand...

I agree with you completely on the aspect of Travis being succeptable to an abusive partner bc his mother was abusive. And I agree that his threshold for abuse was much higher because of his past trauma/abuse from his mother. What might seem like abusive behavior to a person that has never experienced abuse may seem like a slap on the wrist to someone like Travis.

And thank you for corroborating the story about Travis saying the shower scrne from the film "Psycho" frightened him. I had told a friend when she first began to gossip to me about this trial that it sounded like Jodi had watched "Psycho" too many times. So now I know that there truly was a connection/inspiration between the movie and her planning of Travis's murder. I suppose if that is true, then the probability of her confronting him with the knife first is significant. This assuming that his fear of that movie was her inspiration for that horrific day.

In my opinion, she chose the shower bc it would be an easier place to clean up the blood/scene and bc it was furthest from the bedroom door/in the corner where a gun shot could not be heard. He liked to shower after sex probably and she knew it would be the best/most vulnerable place to corner him.

But I do think that she referenced the movie Psycho during trial. I think the reference for her was just an afterthought as a narcissistic way of equating her murderous act to film noir/art. She's not that clever. IMHO
 
Could it be that we are drawn to this case because on some level we can identify with personalities of TA/JA. We ask ourselves who are the wolves in sheep clothing in our own social circles? How can we see the jodi's of this world? What are the red flags that identify these potential killers? How come travis let her into his home even though he knew she was unstable? Questions that we desperately ask and speculate the answers. The trial finished but all the secrets not revealed. We foolishly tell ourselves that we would
recognize the Jodi's of the world. Our heads filled with the horror of this crime and we retreat inward and trust nobody. Reaching out to my fellow man, is always with risk, but one I'm willing take. Each day we decide am I a child of light or darkness. This thread is filled with many that want to share and teach through compassion. I have not lost faith in mankind. It is still worth the risk to reach out to others.
 
Cate49 said:
Could it be that we are drawn to this case because on some level we can identify with personalities of TA/JA. We ask ourselves who are the wolves in sheep clothing in our own social circles? How can we see the jodi's of this world? What are the red flags that identify these potential killers? How come travis let her into his home even though he knew she was unstable? Questions that we desperately ask and speculate the answers. The trial finished but all the secrets not revealed. We foolishly tell ourselves that we would
recognize the Jodi's of the world. Our heads filled with the horror of this crime and we retreat inward and trust nobody. Reaching out to my fellow man, is always with risk, but one I'm willing take. Each day we decide am I a child of light or darkness. This thread is filled with many that want to share and teach through compassion. I have not lost faith in mankind. It is still worth the risk to reach out to others.
Click to expand...

Nope, I identify with neither Jodi or Travis. My sole interest is psychopathy....and the justice system.


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i'm not at all convinced there's anything psychologically wrong with ja, in fact her actions speak more to resolve than mental illness imo. and i think her gross over-estimation of her own intelligence drove this resolve - simply put, she thought she could get away with it.
 
aeneas1 said:
i'm not at all convinced there's anything mentally wrong with ja, in fact her actions speak more to resolve than mental illness imo. and i think her gross over-estimation of her own intelligence drove this resolve - simply put, she thought she could get away with it.
Click to expand...

Jodi does not have mental issues. She has a personality disorder, the most dangerous kind, for which there is no cure. There is nothing counselling, therapy, medication could have done to prevent this or to fix her, for she was born with this defect. Her poor parents never stood a chance. She's just programmed differently than us. She's a psychopath, one that has shown she is capable of murder, which is why the best thing really is locking her away from the rest of society forever, where she can't hurt anyone anymore, for she will never not be dangerous. That's the only "cure" for Jodi.
 
MeeBee said:
Jodi does not have mental issues. She has a personality disorder, the most dangerous kind, for which there is no cure. There is nothing counselling, therapy, medication could have done to prevent this or to fix her, for she was born with this defect. Her poor parents never stood a chance. She's just programmed differently than us. She's a psychopath, one that has shown she is capable of murder, which is why the best thing really is locking her away from the rest of society forever, where she can't hurt anyone anymore, for she will never not be dangerous. That's the only "cure" for Jodi.
Click to expand...
fixed my above statement - i'm not at all convinced that ja suffers from any sort of mental or psychological disorder and, obviously, such disorders certainly aren't a prerequisite when it comes to committing murder. but i do agree that she certainly does deserve to be put away forever, one way or another, and i'm not too picky about whether it's life behind bars or the dp.
 
aeneas1 said:
fixed my above statement - i'm not at all convinced that ja suffers from any sort of mental or psychological disorder and, obviously, such disorders certainly aren't a prerequisite when it comes to committing murder. but i do agree that she certainly does deserve to be put away forever, one way or another, and i'm not too picky about whether it's life behind bars or the dp.
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I know what you were saying and I disagree with that part. There is clearly something off about Jodi. Personality disorder is not a mental or psychological disorder, which is why I jumped off your post, since there are poster that believe a personality disorder can be treated as such.

I know not all psychopaths go on to kill, and I know all killers aren't always psychopaths, though there is probably a distinct correlation. But psychopaths lack a conscience, they lack empathy and compassion which makes them more capable than the general public of committing murder without a care, if they were so inclined. This is Jodi. She clearly lacks this empathy and compassion found in non disordered people and I belive once a psychopath has demonstrated the ability to be murderous, then it's time to lock them away for good (I suspect you don't disagree with that part :).

That's why I support the DP for Jodi and people like Jodi. I woulnd't kick up a fuss if she ended up with LWOP, either one does the job, but I think she deserves the DP.
 
Cate49 said:
Could it be that we are drawn to this case because on some level we can identify with personalities of TA/JA. We ask ourselves who are the wolves in sheep clothing in our own social circles? How can we see the jodi's of this world? What are the red flags that identify these potential killers? How come travis let her into his home even though he knew she was unstable? Questions that we desperately ask and speculate the answers. The trial finished but all the secrets not revealed. We foolishly tell ourselves that we would
recognize the Jodi's of the world. Our heads filled with the horror of this crime and we retreat inward and trust nobody. Reaching out to my fellow man, is always with risk, but one I'm willing take. Each day we decide am I a child of light or darkness. This thread is filled with many that want to share and teach through compassion. I have not lost faith in mankind. It is still worth the risk to reach out to others.
Click to expand...

Hi Cate--I don't identify with either Jodi or Travis but I am intrigued by what makes people do the things they do. As a teacher who has dealt with elementary school children and their parents for decades, I am interested in parenting styles and how children are affected by what they got or did not get from their parents.

To me Jodi is the epitome of what is sociopathic.... completely unaware that many things she did & what she said on the stand was inappropriate. Her entire way of doing everything is completely strange to me. She seems to be lacking a soul, a conscience, or any type of moral compass.Yet she was once a darling little baby. What the hell happened?

I sensed a big lack of interest in Jodi on her parents part. I doubt they ever established a close & meaningful relationship with her. I have seen parents like this. Detached and pre-occupied with other things. Or busy with too many other children. But I've never met a person like Jodi and I sure hope I never do. I know some people think Jodi has a personality disorder, the most dangerous kind, for which there is no cure. That she's a psychopath. Some think that nothing- counselling, therapy, medication could have done anything to prevent problems she caused or to fix her. Ever? Nothing done for her even way back as a child would have made any difference ? As a teacher, I've been trained not to give up on children - to keep trying to help them learn in the best ways that they can. It's too late for Jodi now and probably has been for many years - I understand what. But what can we learn from this horrible tragedy about preventing more Jodis and nightmares like this ?
 
MeeBee said:
Jodi does not have mental issues. She has a personality disorder, the most dangerous kind, for which there is no cure. There is nothing counselling, therapy, medication could have done to prevent this or to fix her, for she was born with this defect. Her poor parents never stood a chance. She's just programmed differently than us. She's a psychopath, one that has shown she is capable of murder, which is why the best thing really is locking her away from the rest of society forever, where she can't hurt anyone anymore, for she will never not be dangerous. That's the only "cure" for Jodi.
Click to expand...

A Personality Disorder is a mental issue.
 
slanda said:
A Personality Disorder is a mental issue.
Click to expand...

No it's not. Personality disorder and mental illness are two different things. Personality disorder is hardwired. We're born with it.
 
MeeBee said:
No it's not. Personality disorder and mental illness are two different things. Personality disorder is hardwired. We're born with it.
Click to expand...
the mayo clinic seems to disagree:

A personality disorder is a type of mental illness in which you have trouble perceiving and relating to situations and to people — including yourself. There are many specific types of personality disorders.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/personality-disorders/DS00562

other references:

There is now fairly universal agreement that PD is not a mental illness in the sense that schizophrenia and depression are, but rather an underlying fault in the core personality. However, some types of PD are closely linked to mental illness, particularly between those in cluster A and schizophrenia. A high proportion of people with PD also have mental health problems.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2004/dec/15/mentalhealth

http://www.webmd.com/mental-health/mental-health-types-illness

anyway, per my post, i'm not at all convinced ja suffers from pd/mi - i think there are many perfectly same people roaming the planet that, given an opportunity to do harm to others without consequence, for one reason or another, would do so in a flash.
 
MeeBee said:
No it's not. Personality disorder and mental illness are two different things. Personality disorder is hardwired. We're born with it.
Click to expand...

I disagree.
IMO personality disorders are sometimes born and sometimes made.


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aeneas1 said:
the mayo clinic seems to disagree:

A personality disorder is a type of mental illness in which you have trouble perceiving and relating to situations and to people — including yourself. There are many specific types of personality disorders.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/personality-disorders/DS00562

other references:

There is now fairly universal agreement that PD is not a mental illness in the sense that schizophrenia and depression are, but rather an underlying fault in the core personality. However, some types of PD are closely linked to mental illness, particularly between those in cluster A and schizophrenia. A high proportion of people with PD also have mental health problems.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2004/dec/15/mentalhealth

http://www.webmd.com/mental-health/mental-health-types-illness

anyway, per my post, i'm not at all convinced ja suffers from pd/mi - i think there are many perfectly same people roaming the planet that, given an opportunity to do harm to others without consequence, for one reason or another, would do so in a flash.
Click to expand...

IMO Jodi is perfectly sane. She knows what she did was wrong, she just didn't care. She knows right from wrong, she views other people as a means to an end. She doesn't view other humans as separate beings... Just objects for her own use.

Jodi is all about Jodi 24/7


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A personality disorder is a mental health issue in terms of psychiatry and in some cases forms of treatment.

But it's not considered in the legal realm of insanity at all. It doesn't preclude a person from knowing right from wrong but simply it creates a situation where they disregard it.

Prisons are chocked full of personality disordered individuals.

Then again, so are politics. ;)
 
MeeBee said:
No it's not. Personality disorder and mental illness are two different things. Personality disorder is hardwired. We're born with it.
Click to expand...

That is not a factual statement. Sorry. There is a plethora of scientific evidence that refutes that. Of course, some are born with problems, but that statement is too general for such a complex issue.
 
Cate49 said:
Could it be that we are drawn to this case because on some level we can identify with personalities of TA/JA. We ask ourselves who are the wolves in sheep clothing in our own social circles? How can we see the jodi's of this world? What are the red flags that identify these potential killers? How come travis let her into his home even though he knew she was unstable? Questions that we desperately ask and speculate the answers. The trial finished but all the secrets not revealed. We foolishly tell ourselves that we would
recognize the Jodi's of the world. Our heads filled with the horror of this crime and we retreat inward and trust nobody. Reaching out to my fellow man, is always with risk, but one I'm willing take. Each day we decide am I a child of light or darkness. This thread is filled with many that want to share and teach through compassion. I have not lost faith in mankind. It is still worth the risk to reach out to others.
Click to expand...

I truly believe in listening to your instincts, go with your gut. If someone makes you uncomfortable...you get a bad feeling, TAKE HEED!

For me, I know instinctually when I see a psychopath in action. I can actually feel it and my body reacts. I've studied them for about 18 years now. The moment I saw Jodi in a tv interview... I knew exactly what she was.

IMO


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