Poll for the Armchair Psychologists

[Linda7NJ]

Yes, I understand what you are saying, and I did consider that.

The problem with that is for me 1) She doesn't present those personality disorder features on these tests, and 2) She presents other features which you would not expect to see in a psychopath.

I'm basing this on Dr. Geffner's testimony. I trust his analysis.

If you don't, then I guess we really have no basis for discussion.

But, please note--not one of the psychological professionals for either side who took the stand called her a psychopath. There's a reason for that.

IMO

You will never hear an expert say on the stand a defendant is a psychopath. Not in the USA anyway. Can't speak to globally.


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[Linda7NJ]

I agree. I'm talking about anxiety. She's a pro at living with anxiety.

IMO

Oh. Sorry my mistake.

Or.... She simply doesn't suffer from anxiety. Like she doesn't have remorse or empathy.



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[2Hip2BSquare]

Again autism is lo cognitive empathy but average emotional empathy. They can't show when they feel bad, but they feel it.

Jodi does not seem to really feel bad/empathy cognitively bc she never formally apologized for what she did to Travis and I think we all know she refuses to accent that he was the victim and makes herself the victim which indicates low emotional empathy (sociopathy)

 

[Cate49]

I have read this thread since the start when it was the armchair thread. You take a read yourself and get your facts straight.

 

[slanda]

Ok. Let me put this another way.

I think she lives with high anxiety because of the stress of constantly having to read people and situations through contrived means.

I say contrived because I believe she has low empathy and does not have the abilities that the average person uses in reading people and situations.

So she's constantly on guard and trying to read the situation without having the tools to do it.

In other words, I believe she has a type of brain impairent that I am calling high level autism.

I think the anxiety level goes down for her if she is in a loving, supportive, and consistent environment and it goes up if she is in a complicated, rejecting, abusive, and chaotic environment.

But it's always there. And, she is a pro at dealing with it.

IMO

I don't think you understand what it is like to have anxiety everyday. I have it everyday of my life. Sometimes I feel like I might die any minute. There is no way to become accustomed to anxiety. It doesn't work like that. Severe stress on a regular basis will manifest itself.

 

[slanda]

Ok. Let me put this another way.

I think she lives with high anxiety because of the stress of constantly having to read people and situations through contrived means.

I say contrived because I believe she has low empathy and does not have the abilities that the average person uses in reading people and situations.

So she's constantly on guard and trying to read the situation without having the tools to do it.

In other words, I believe she has a type of brain impairent that I am calling high level autism.

I think the anxiety level goes down for her if she is in a loving, supportive, and consistent environment and it goes up if she is in a complicated, rejecting, abusive, and chaotic environment.

But it's always there. And, she is a pro at dealing with it.

IMO

I honestly don't know if a person can realistically have an anxiety disorder and not have empathy. I really don't. And anxiety doesn't magically get better with different environments if it is an internal problem. The brain is malfunctioning regardless of the situation. Granted, after I left my abusive husband, my anxiety seemed to be curbed some But, after a while my brain started to focus on other things. Also, panic attacks usually come out of the blue, at least for me, when I'm not consciously worrying about anything.

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

I have read this thread since the start when it was the armchair thread. You take a read yourself and get your facts straight.

Who are you speaking to? Sorry confused.

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

I honestly don't know if a person can realistically have an anxiety disorder and not have empathy. I really don't. And anxiety doesn't magically get better with different environments if it is an internal problem. The brain is malfunctioning regardless of the situation. Granted, after I left my abusive husband, my anxiety seemed to be curbed some But, after a while my brain started to focus on other things. Also, panic attacks usually come out of the blue, at least for me, when I'm not consciously worrying about anything.

I'm sorry for the anxiety you deal with. It sounds horrible. Luckily you have us to help you get your mind off the worries/anxiety!

I believe that sociopaths actually experience anxiety, and specifically social anxiety. They are very good at covering this anxiety, but it always exists as the sociopath is constantly having the stress of having to put on a facade and the anxiety of getting caught in their lies. They do have anxiety, but it is a by product of them constantly being "in character" to fit in socially.

 

[tralala1]

I'm intrigued by the high functioning Asperger's diagnosis that some have mentioned on this thread because it could explain certain aspects of her personality that observers seem to have trouble categorizing. It explains the genius level verbal skills, the incredible "focus" once she got an idea in her head (murder), and more. I also believe that she has narcissisism and psychopathy.

But have any of you have listened to The Tape in full? What do you think about her here (ignoring the pornographic parts completely)? This is Jodi as comfortable as I have ever heard her (as compared to the more stressful environments of court, an interrogation, the defendant's chair, addressing jurors, being in a jailhouse, participating in a national tv interview). Yes, she is being deceitful in taping him, but in the actual conversation, she sounds as if she's genuinely enjoying him and the chit chat about movies, music, co-workers). I don't think she intended to kill him when this tape was made.

In one part, she talks about the time that they watched a movie together--I couldn't understand the title) and Travis made fun of her for crying about it (the only example I know of when Jodi cried for someone else) and she jokingly tells him that at that moment she had thought to herself indignantly "he's so insensitive!" That struck me as a very interesting moment because she was crying about someone else (albeit fictional characters), and because the reason she cried was because the two characters couldn't enjoy the fruits of their friendship due to one of their deaths (I think??) What do you make of this? Sympathy? Empathy?

Would someone with Asperger's (forgive my ignorance since I have only met a few people with Asperger's) sound so relaxed, be a pretty good conversationalist, be appropriate (ignore the other parts!), be lively and animated, sometimes funny, have no monotone or flat affect. In other worse, sound pretty normal? Yes, there are parts that sound syrupy sweet and fake, but others sound genuine. I'm sure that people with Asperger's have the ability to have all of the above social skills, but would they have all of them "at once"? Her social skills seem highly developed here (despite the fact that she's a vicious killer and she terrifies me!) I hate to say it, but she sounds like some of the friends I had in my twenties. If you haven't heard ALL of this tape, I think you'll find it fascinating.

I also know that she may be acting here (but would someone with Asperger's be able to act the part of perfect girlfriend/buddy so well?).

This tape scares me all the more because of how relatively normal she sounds to me--you would never think the person in this tape could do what she did!

Jodi Arias & Travis Alexander Sex Tape - YouTube

 

[Cate49]

Sorry to hip it was Beagle Mania that suggested I read privies posts. There is a great deal of tension on this thread. Personally my energy is needed for the battles I fight outside of web forums.

 

[Linda7NJ]

I'm intrigued by the high functioning Asperger's diagnosis that some have mentioned on this thread because it could explain certain aspects of her personality that observers seem to have trouble categorizing. It explains the genius level verbal skills, the incredible "focus" once she got an idea in her head (murder), and more. I also believe that she has narcissisism and psychopathy.

But have any of you have listened to The Tape in full? What do you think about her here (ignoring the pornographic parts completely)? This is Jodi as comfortable as I have ever heard her (as compared to the more stressful environments of court, an interrogation, the defendant's chair, addressing jurors, being in a jailhouse, participating in a national tv interview). Yes, she is being deceitful in taping him, but in the actual conversation, she sounds as if she's genuinely enjoying him and the chit chat about movies, music, co-workers). I don't think she intended to kill him when this tape was made.

In one part, she talks about the time that they watched a movie together--I couldn't understand the title) and Travis made fun of her for crying about it (the only example I know of when Jodi cried for someone else) and she jokingly tells him that at that moment she had thought to herself indignantly "he's so insensitive!" That struck me as a very interesting moment because she was crying about someone else (albeit fictional characters), and because the reason she cried was because the two characters couldn't enjoy the fruits of their friendship due to one of their deaths (I think??) What do you make of this? Sympathy? Empathy?

Would someone with Asperger's (forgive my ignorance since I have only met a few people with Asperger's) sound so relaxed, be a pretty good conversationalist, be appropriate (ignore the other parts!), be lively and animated, sometimes funny, have no monotone or flat affect. In other worse, sound pretty normal? Yes, there are parts that sound syrupy sweet and fake, but others sound genuine. I'm sure that people with Asperger's have the ability to have all of the above social skills, but would they have all of them "at once"? Her social skills seem highly developed here (despite the fact that she's a vicious killer and she terrifies me!) I hate to say it, but she sounds like some of the friends I had in my twenties. If you haven't heard ALL of this tape, I think you'll find it fascinating.

I also know that she may be acting here (but would someone with Asperger's be able to act the part of perfect girlfriend/buddy so well?).

This tape scares me all the more because of how relatively normal she sounds to me--you would never think the person in this tape could do what she did!

Jodi Arias & Travis Alexander Sex Tape - YouTube

Minus the sex parts, she sounds like she's 14 years old. IMO

Was she really crying or was it her damsel in distress ploy?


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[tralala1]

Also, I'd just like to say that I was diagnosed with Generalized Anxiety Disorder, GAD, when I was 5. I'm now 33, and obviously I've had anxiety since I can remember. My little amygdala has always been out of control. I have been paralyzed by anxiety and it has saved my life. It's a blessing and a curse. I know anxiety. I can see it in other people quite easily.

From all of my observations, and I've observed pretty much everything about JA, I have never witnessed the telltale signs of anxiety. Not once, not ever. I understand that her test scores were high on the anxiety scale, but she is not anxious. She does not show any of the subconscious signs of anxiety either. She does not trip on her words when upset, she doesn't seem to be easily upset at all actually, she doesn't move around when seated, she doesn't "pick" at herself, she doesn't have any nervous gestures, she doesnt visibly shake (not even her hands) she doesn't show any symptoms of stress to me at all. None. Her affect is almost the complete opposite of someone that has anxiety.

No one can argue she doesn't show these signs because she is medicated either. I am medicated, and I still have symptoms of anxiety. I have Zolfot, amitryptaline, Ativan, & Valium. I am very careful about my diet, as not to contribute willfully to my anxiety. I have been to therapy on and off my entire life. I was also actually diagnosed with PTSD and spousal abuse syndrome. I have actually been abused and am a victim of domestic violence and my ex husband currently has a warrant out for his arrest because of domestic violence.

IMO, this woman is many things, but she does not suffer from anxiety. Maybe she has PTSD from murdering someone, I would. But, I can say with absolute certainty she does not suffer from an anxiety disorder. You cannot "control" anxiety. It would have shown up in some way to see it by now, and I haven't seen a hint of it. Ever.

I agree! Don't see the anxiety there with Jodi. She seemed umbelievably calm and serene for the first verdict. I too have been diagnosed with GAD, but it's a "mild" form (mild makes it sound almost harmless--it's not!)

If you want to see anxiety in an interrogation, just watch this video of Stephanie Lazarus. It's fascinating to watch this woman's body react over the course of an hour to that thought that "OMG, I think I'm about to be held accountable for a twenty-five year old murder I committed!" Jodi showed NONE of this behavior in her interrogation videos! Maybe Stephanie Lazarus isn't a psychopath she she definitely has fear and anxiety here!

Full Stephanie Lazarus Interrogation Video - YouTube

 

[Beaglemania]

You're wrong.

Have you ever taken the MMPI? Are you even familiar with it? Many of the questions are redundant and repeated throughout. They're sorted out and divided up into groups that are turned into the T scores. Psychological tests are not like blood tests. They're based on self reporting. If someone can self report in a consistent way, they can manipulate the test.

One doesn't need to be a super genius to do it.


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Exactly!! Plus, we can all agree that Jodi is not a super genius. WAIS = 119 = High average.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Exactly!! Plus, we can all agree that Jodi is not a super genius. WAIS = 119 = High average.

I shake like a Chihuahua every time her IQ comes up. My adult score is 119 also. Quite a few points lower than when I was tested as a child. It's upsetting to age and get "stoopidier" lol

When I stop shaking I'm gonna to compare the testing instruments and scoring.


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[2Hip2BSquare]

I'm intrigued by the high functioning Asperger's diagnosis that some have mentioned on this thread because it could explain certain aspects of her personality that observers seem to have trouble categorizing. It explains the genius level verbal skills, the incredible "focus" once she got an idea in her head (murder), and more. I also believe that she has narcissisism and psychopathy.

But have any of you have listened to The Tape in full? What do you think about her here (ignoring the pornographic parts completely)? This is Jodi as comfortable as I have ever heard her (as compared to the more stressful environments of court, an interrogation, the defendant's chair, addressing jurors, being in a jailhouse, participating in a national tv interview). Yes, she is being deceitful in taping him, but in the actual conversation, she sounds as if she's genuinely enjoying him and the chit chat about movies, music, co-workers). I don't think she intended to kill him when this tape was made.

In one part, she talks about the time that they watched a movie together--I couldn't understand the title) and Travis made fun of her for crying about it (the only example I know of when Jodi cried for someone else) and she jokingly tells him that at that moment she had thought to herself indignantly "he's so insensitive!" That struck me as a very interesting moment because she was crying about someone else (albeit fictional characters), and because the reason she cried was because the two characters couldn't enjoy the fruits of their friendship due to one of their deaths (I think??) What do you make of this? Sympathy? Empathy?

Would someone with Asperger's (forgive my ignorance since I have only met a few people with Asperger's) sound so relaxed, be a pretty good conversationalist, be appropriate (ignore the other parts!), be lively and animated, sometimes funny, have no monotone or flat affect. In other worse, sound pretty normal? Yes, there are parts that sound syrupy sweet and fake, but others sound genuine. I'm sure that people with Asperger's have the ability to have all of the above social skills, but would they have all of them "at once"? Her social skills seem highly developed here (despite the fact that she's a vicious killer and she terrifies me!) I hate to say it, but she sounds like some of the friends I had in my twenties. If you haven't heard ALL of this tape, I think you'll find it fascinating.

I also know that she may be acting here (but would someone with Asperger's be able to act the part of perfect girlfriend/buddy so well?).

This tape scares me all the more because of how relatively normal she sounds to me--you would never think the person in this tape could do what she did!

Jodi Arias & Travis Alexander Sex Tape - YouTube

Autistic people have low cognitive empathy but normal emotional empathy. They typically move awkwardly and are not as confident as Jodi.

So if someone were to be a high functioning autistic, it just means they would have a higher cognitive empathy (knowing when they are hurting someone and that it's not right)

So if Jodi had a highly functioning form of autism, that would indicate she has a higher conscious empathy as well as higher emotional empathy.

....

However, if she had a high cognitive or low cognitive empathy with a morbidly low emotional empathy, she would be a sociopath. With sociopaths the emotional empathy will always be low as the cognitive empathy may vary.

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

What's the distance from the Grand Canyon to the courthouse? Anyone know? I can't believe they wouldn't be waiting very nearby. Whose job was it to let them know?


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Lived in Maricopa Co AZ and drive to Grand Canyon and back in college.

It took about 2 hours give or take. And that's at the closest.

 

[Linda7NJ]

I have a question and this seems like as good as any a place to ask it. If Jodi lacks empathy, is so comfortable lying, and such a good reader of people as her acquaintances / Travis's friends have said, what stops her from faking remorse? She can fake-cry and fake-orgasm, but expressing remorse seems to be a bridge too far. Surely she understands intellectually that most normal people would apologize at some point for accidentally killing someone, no? Especially if their life is on the line in a DP trial?

IMO her narcissistic self can't bring herself to mimic or fake empathy because that would mean she would have to take responsibility and admit she made a mistake and was sorry. That is in direct conflict with her psychopathic self.


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[Beaglemania]

I shake like a Chihuahua every time her IQ comes up. My adult score is 119 also. Quite a few points lower than when I was tested as a child. It's upsetting to age and get "stoopidier" lol

When I stop shaking I'm gonna to compare the testing instruments and scoring.


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This cracks me up! :floorlaugh:

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

Idk why they wouldn't be there.

If it is bc they expected the court to wait for them then hmmm, I wonder where her narcissistic behavior comes from?

The world stands still for none, nor the gavel.

 

[Beaglemania]

Would you ever consider you could be misconstruing her Sociopathic Personality for autism?

You are describing a sociopath to a T.

And the last part you described:

"I think the anxiety level goes down for her if she is in a loving, supportive, and consistent environment and it goes up if she is in a complicated, rejecting, abusive, and chaotic environment."

^^^ exactly because she is also a borderline and narcissist (or as I honestly believed the narcissistic sister pf the borferline, HPD)


You are describing a person that lacks empathy, but has high anxiety when others don't provide an empathetic/accepting environment for her. Sounds like a self absorbed narcissist/borderline to me.

YES!!! Jodi Ann Arias is not autistic. She never was and never will be autistic. She is a murdering manipulative,narcissistic, borderline personality with severe sociopathic comorbid traits. She is a festering boil on the butt of humanity.