SIDEBAR #7- Arias/Alexander forum

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Later tonight just for chits and giggles I will find a really good YouTube so everybody can understand what we know about her being so crazy. her on the stand with her co conspirator trial was just unbelievable! Unnnn believable.

ETA why wait I have a few minutes now let me go do it now :D

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bbm
is she crazy as in ja bpd or sociopath type we've talked about here. :scared:
 
I wonder if Jodi knows yet her 'celebrity' has been usurped by Zimmerman and Sneiderman. That's gotta burn.


:seeya: LOL ... I bet she is so ticked off ... oh well ... :boohoo:

Oh, I tuned into InSession this morning just to see IF they were still going to cover JA, and they were covering another trial :waitasec: which I think was a re-run ...
 
bbm

When one says they *can* give the death penalty, is it written somewhere that regardless of what THEY, the jurors, (and they're the only ones who count, the ONLY ones) say, which is that they would carefully weigh the evidence and make a decision, that they MUST render a death penalty? Is there a rule that says THEY (not posters, jurors, there is a difference IMO) MUST render the DP, regardless of how THEY viewed the case or evidence?

I thought that's what the penalty phase was for, or else why even bother? From many of the comments here it seems like the death penalty should work as so:

No deliberation needed, you said you "could," but to us that means you MUST.

I for one am glad it doesn't work the way many here seem to think it should. Jurors opinions are the only ones that matter and opinions are personal and therefore unassailable. And the death penalty is mostly an opinion, or else, again, why bother. Give it to everyone.

The ONLY problem I would have with someone who didn't give the death penalty is if they lied to get on the jury just to derail the process. But that hasn't been shown, most likely because it didn't happen.

I see no reason to criticize ANY juror, unless you were in that room and in their minds. There is no "they deserve it" just because one didn't like their verdict, their personality, their clothing or anything else. Nobody deserves this kind of treatment, especailly someone who did their civic duty for 5 months. That kind of criticism is classless to the max, IMO.

If they used faulty/incorrect reasoning or didn't make sure they understand the instructions they are certainly deserving of criticism. If they allowed themselves to be pushed around by the foreman, same thing. They went through nothing compared to what the Alexanders went through and if its their duty, they shouldn't be seeking praise...and they don't deserve any. No excuse for hanging on the penalty phase.
 
I know what you mean, DGC. I have nothing but good things to say about all the jurors who have spoken except for the foreman, of course. I do wonder if those who voted for life were not able to or did not want to follow the instructions. Certainly it does cross our minds! These jurors said they could give the DP. And this crime was one of the most horrific ones I've ever seen in my life! If this doesn't warrant the DP then what's the point of the DP? No bashing here. Just a whole lot of criticism directed at the foreman (he deserves it!) and curiosity as to the thought process of the pro-lifers.


Yes, I'm also very curious, but why do I have a feeling they are not gonna come out and speak out about their decision? Hmmmmm......

I think many of them believed at least some of things JW and Nurmi were saying. Such as..."mean" text message. Such as....saying "i love you" to her one minute and the next minute talking to other girls. Such as...saying he's disgusted with her, but yet still having phone sex and regular sex with her.

BUT I THINK THESE NEED TO BE TAKEN IN CONTEXT. The context is that a "normal" girl would not be tipped over the edge to the point of premeditating a plan which involved stabbing him 29 times, slitting his throat, and shooting him! I mean...so she obviously has some psycho problems/some personality problems/some esteem issues - but WHY SHOULD THAT MATTER??? The fact is that the end result is what happened. The jury is supposed to analyze the evidence based on what a REASONABLE PERSON WOULD DO. I feel that some of them or maybe all of them are trying to analyze it based on what other murderer-types would do.

If you look at it in the context of reasonable person...a reasonable person would not be affected much by what Travis did. So he sent one mean text message (after being provoked!) so what...that's happened to all of us at one time or another in our entire lives. So he was wanting to date around and have fun...so what, there are LOTS of guys who do the same thing. They are friends with many different girls at the same time, and they flirt with a lot of them...to me, that's just NORMAL single-guy behavior. And yes, with their ex-es, they might remain extra-friendly. I don't see what the big deal is. If she didn't like it, a normal girl would have cut off contact or would have understood his game. So what he was still having sex with her - there have been whole movies made to that effect in the modern day : "friends with benefits" starring Justin Timberlake and Mila Kunis to name one. A normal girl would have just told him no if she didn't like it.

The point is...the jury got sucked into Jodi-world. They started seeing everythingl through Jodi's eyes....her messed-up, twisted, psycho eyes and thoughts. They forgot how a normal girl acts.

If you look at it from what a reasonable person would do, this whole thing is so simple. And she was not declared legally insane by the court....soooo....it's not their job to go about "figuring her out."
 
[/B]

Yes, I'm also very curious, but why do I have a feeling they are not gonna come out and speak out about their decision? Hmmmmm......

I think many of them believed at least some of things JW and Nurmi were saying. Such as..."mean" text message. Such as....saying "i love you" to her one minute and the next minute talking to other girls. Such as...saying he's disgusted with her, but yet still having phone sex and regular sex with her.

BUT I THINK THESE NEED TO BE TAKEN IN CONTEXT. The context is that a "normal" girl would not be tipped over the edge to the point of premeditating a plan which involved stabbing him 29 times, slitting his throat, and shooting him! I mean...so she obviously has some psycho problems/some personality problems/some esteem issues - but WHY SHOULD THAT MATTER??? The fact is that the end result is what happened. The jury is supposed to analyze the evidence based on what a REASONABLE PERSON WOULD DO. I feel that some of them or maybe all of them are trying to analyze it based on what other murderer-types would do.

If you look at it in the context of reasonable person...a reasonable person would not be affected much by what Travis did. So he sent one mean text message (after being provoked!) so what...that's happened to all of us at one time or another in our entire lives. So he was wanting to date around and have fun...so what, there are LOTS of guys who do the same thing. They are friends with many different girls at the same time, and they flirt with a lot of them...to me, that's just NORMAL single-guy behavior. And yes, with their ex-es, they might remain extra-friendly. I don't see what the big deal is. If she didn't like it, a normal girl would have cut off contact or would have understood his game. So what he was still having sex with her - there have been whole movies made to that effect in the modern day : "friends with benefits" starring Justin Timberlake and Mila Kunis to name one. A normal girl would have just told him no if she didn't like it.

The point is...the jury got sucked into Jodi-world. They started seeing everythingl through Jodi's eyes....her messed-up, twisted, psycho eyes and thoughts. They forgot how a normal girl acts.

If you look at it from what a reasonable person would do, this whole thing is so simple. And she was not declared legally insane by the court....soooo....it's not their job to go about "figuring her out."

Ahhh, but Jodi was ok with the cheating, flirting with others, sex for no other reason than to just have sex.......as long as SHE was the one doing it. Double standards and all for this chick. She always had the next guy lined up before she dumped her current one and in some instances even kept the current one on the hook for awhile after she had the new one "hooked".

Jodi used her sexuality the same way that some use their personality. It was the only thing that Jodi had to offer and is one of the reasons why there are so very few female friends for her. Jodi is simply one of those types of girls that are a dime a dozen. Nothing special about her and never has been anything special about her. And that p!sses her off to no end.

MOO
 
IMO, all of us carry around a pretty big store of stereotypes and biases and assumptions, aware of them or not. I followed the Casey Anthony trial-my first- because initially I very much wanted to believe Caylee's death had to be accidental. I just couldn't wrap my brain around how it was she could murder her own precious child for literally no reason.

It took me over a month of reading all the evidence and plenty of articles on narcissism and sociopaths to even begin to get it

At the risk of having rotten fruit thrown my way, I'll play devils advocate for a bit (perspective below is not my own).

I can understand how a juror who hasn't ever dug deep into another murder trial or case and who has never had to deal with a BPD person or the like, could have had difficulty understanding how a young woman commit such a savage murder. Enough evidence was excluded for a reasonable person to believe that the killer had lived an ordinary enough life up to the time she met Travis.

Yes she dropped out of school and hit her mother and didn't have much ambition and was extremely nosey and didn't like it when her boyfriends cheated on her. How many thousands of young women like that must there be, though.

It wasn't until she got involved with Travis that she truly went off the rails. That's just a fact.

Equipped with one set of biases, she was normal enough till then. He yanked her chains by saying he didn't want a relationship, but telling her I love you and wanting to have sex. He said awful things to her. He said to friends that she was stalking him and that he was afraid of her, but he kept calling. Whether he knew she was coming or not on June 4, he had sex with her that day instead of calling the police.

He was conflicted. Being conflicted could make him feel angry with himself and angry with her, and cause him to push and pull her.

If she has BPD, maybe that push and pull ultimately pushed her over the ledge. Doesn't make it his fault, but allows for the reality that the events leading up to the murder itself involved two people, not just the killer.

I think this is a very important post. Thank you. That took courage.

Seriously, thank you for being the devil's advocate in this because you said some things that I was thinking.

I came late to this trial. I happened to come across a small part of CMja's testimony and saw a psychopath in action. But then, I've seen other psychopaths . . . perhaps the jury had not.

At that point this trial caught my interest.

The jury only saw selected information. What we have here is a good and experienced prosecutor and a good (against the odds while dealing with a renegade client) defense team. Believe it or not, I believe that even the most heinous murderer should have a good defense team.

The jury was composed of "death qualified" people. Apparently 4 of them saw mitigating factors, but the jury as a whole were not shown all the evidence. Some of which was inadmissible.

I think the juror #6 "Nancy" has it right. She saw Jodi Arias was "playing us."

Or trying to.

CMja did not manage to "play" the jury on the premeditated (and in some cases felony murder). They found her guilty of M1 with cruelty.

She apparently "played" 4 jurors on mitigating circumstances. Again, #6 has it right. She, and others, could not force the minority to vote against their consciences and moral codes.

Interestingly enough, I saw nothing in the jurors' interviews so far (and I'll be glad to be corrected) that states that TRAVIS was the person that was thought to have mentally/emotionally/physically abused Jodi. Perhaps they were looking at the absence of family support, abuse in childhood, . . . I don't know.

I consider that this jury did a good job. They found CMja guilty of Murder 1, with cruelty.

I read with sadness the criticism of the jury. I honestly believe they did their best with the information they had. They were told, by law, to consider mitigating circumstances, and apparently 4 of them found them.

With that, I respect the 4 for holding onto their moral beliefs even though they were in the minority. And, yes, the jury of normal "death qualified" people ARE told that they should not vote against their moral convictions.

This jury did an extremely good job, even though they could not unanimously vote for death.

They did a fabulous job in that they did not brow beat those members who could not vote for the DP against their personal moral convictions.

I realize that this is a far from popular opinion here, but I respect the 4 for holding on to their opinions, and the 8 for respecting the opinion of the 4. A hung jury is part of the process in a civilized society.

Final thought, I was a person that was seriously pizzed at the Pinellas 12. That jury was lazy and in MOO very stupid.
 
What reeked of bs to me regarding the 9 mm was that a 27 yr old female living with her grandparents would spend money on a gun and ammo rather than moving out. Well, among other things. Especially after saying she was supposedly starting a professional photography business/taking wedding photos. Because nothing says professional or marriage material like a woman living with granny who buys a gun over lodging.
 
Ahhh, but Jodi was ok with the cheating, flirting with others, sex for no other reason than to just have sex.......as long as SHE was the one doing it. Double standards and all for this chick. She always had the next guy lined up before she dumped her current one and in some instances even kept the current one on the hook for awhile after she had the new one "hooked".

Jodi used her sexuality the same way that some use their personality. It was the only thing that Jodi had to offer and is one of the reasons why there are so very few female friends for her. Jodi is simply one of those types of girls that are a dime a dozen. Nothing special about her and never has been anything special about her. And that p!sses her off to no end.

MOO
Doesn't take her very long to adapt to her surroundings. She finds ways to improvise and by that I mean she has managed to find a new love interest in jail.
Both charged with murder of a man.
 
:seeya: Thanks !

smileytakeaspin.gif
So what's a girl to do
smileytakeaspin.gif


- Do I read the WS threads to get caught up -- or -- do I watch the trial knowing virtually nothing about the case other than a few facts ?

I just can't decide ...

:scared:

How about a third option. Instead of getting hooked on Travon stuff that is on HLN, look at some videos of Andrea on the stand during her testitimony during her co conspiriators trial! It will hook you. She lies just like JA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You will now recognize it from our JA experience.

Quick background - (before I forget...ALL IS ALLEDGED as follows) she dated boss/boss and her had "secrect"affair/boss (at General Electric) wanted to marry her/they conspired to kill husband/first attempt to do it by gas meter...Hemy was caught and chased by husband Rusty/days later Hemy and Andrea met at her house, next am Hemy went and killed Andreas husband Rusty with a gun as Rusty was dropping of their son at the boys daycare/She called family and said Rusty was shot BEFORE ANYONE TOLD HER how her husband was killed.

Lots lots lots lots more that is unreal.....another Jodi...but interesting in that the prosecutor is like we think of Dt. Flores.....not Martinez

In this video, she starts to turn into the sociopath she is at about 6:30....if you don't have time to listen to it all of 21:00 video here, at least fast forward to that!

[video=youtube;zJvJ-2H7iTg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJvJ-2H7iTg[/video]

Here is WS thread again... Andrea Sneiderman Wesbleuths Thread Trial begins July 29th

There is a reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaly good 2 minute clip but don't have time to find it right now, others may now. But she absolutely looses it on the stand! :floorlaugh:

HTH. (This is the end of a public service notice and advertisement for another WS thread for a trial to start on July 29th, lol)
 
Justice4Travis ‏@Justice4TravisA 1m

5 years ago today, #JodiArias stole the gun used to kill Travis in cold-blood.
---

Really sad isn't it? The CM was well into her plans by this time.
 
:seeya: LOL ... I bet she is so ticked off ... oh well ... :boohoo:

Oh, I tuned into InSession this morning just to see IF they were still going to cover JA, and they were covering another trial :waitasec: which I think was a re-run ...

That's why I stopped watching In Session, the last trial I tried to watch I realized was a rerun and they stalled giving the verdict for a ridiculous amount of air/commercial time. That's why I missed the beginning of this trial, I saw commercials for it but didn't know if it was Live or Memorex. :facepalm:
 
:seeya: LOL ... I bet she is so ticked off ... oh well ... :boohoo:

Oh, I tuned into InSession this morning just to see IF they were still going to cover JA, and they were covering another trial :waitasec: which I think was a re-run ...

They were showing the trial of the woman-whose-name-I-can't-remember who killed Heather Garraus. I missed the whole thing when it happened, but I did enjoy the part they showed today and I'm planning to catch it tomorrow because Vinnie promised they'll be showing the killer's testimony.

So all a re-run but new to me.
 
Any more than that sister .... And you will be a "cat lady". :drumroll:
Thats my title, hahahaha! I foster strays, rescues, etc. So I have an always changing number of cats, of all ages colours & cattitudes. Crazy cat chick, thats me! :scared:
 
I think this is a very important post. Thank you. That took courage.

Seriously, thank you for being the devil's advocate in this because you said some things that I was thinking.

I came late to this trial. I happened to come across a small part of CMja's testimony and saw a psychopath in action. But then, I've seen other psychopaths . . . perhaps the jury had not.

At that point this trial caught my interest.

The jury only saw selected information. What we have here is a good and experienced prosecutor and a good (against the odds while dealing with a renegade client) defense team. Believe it or not, I believe that even the most heinous murderer should have a good defense team.

The jury was composed of "death qualified" people. Apparently 4 of them saw mitigating factors, but the jury as a whole were not shown all the evidence. Some of which was inadmissible.

I think the juror #6 "Nancy" has it right. She saw Jodi Arias was "playing us."

Or trying to.

CMja did not manage to "play" the jury on the premeditated (and in some cases felony murder). They found her guilty of M1 with cruelty.

She apparently "played" 4 jurors on mitigating circumstances. Again, #6 has it right. She, and others, could not force the minority to vote against their consciences and moral codes.

Interestingly enough, I saw nothing in the jurors' interviews so far (and I'll be glad to be corrected) that states that TRAVIS was the person that was thought to have mentally/emotionally/physically abused Jodi. Perhaps they were looking at the absence of family support, abuse in childhood, . . . I don't know.

I consider that this jury did a good job. They found CMja guilty of Murder 1, with cruelty.

I read with sadness the criticism of the jury. I honestly believe they did their best with the information they had. They were told, by law, to consider mitigating circumstances, and apparently 4 of them found them.

With that, I respect the 4 for holding onto their moral beliefs even though they were in the minority. And, yes, the jury of normal "death qualified" people ARE told that they should not vote against their moral convictions.

This jury did an extremely good job, even though they could not unanimously vote for death.

They did a fabulous job in that they did not brow beat those members who could not vote for the DP against their personal moral convictions.

I realize that this is a far from popular opinion here, but I respect the 4 for holding on to their opinions, and the 8 for respecting the opinion of the 4. A hung jury is part of the process in a civilized society.

Final thought, I was a person that was seriously pizzed at the Pinellas 12. That jury was lazy and in MOO very stupid.

Personally, MOO, I think the 4 didn't want to give her the death penalty b/c they believe she is sick in the mind. MOO. They sat with her in the courtroom for 5 months. I think it's obvious to everyone that she has some mental problem. The abuse and other things are just ways for the 4 to come up with WHY she has this mental problem. It would make sense that if you think someone is psycho, you think something must have happened to them growing up. And then you start to think along those lines...then you think, well maybe there is some inkling of truth to when she says her father abused her, etc.. THEY ARE TRYING TO COME UP WITH REASONS. I believe there was NO abuse, I believe she was probably born with some mental problem, which surfaced in her teen years. I don't think it's anything her parents or anyone did.

This is what it came down to for the 4 in this jury...and in the end they decided they didn't feel right with putting a "sick" person to death. I firmly believe this is the case, and I think that if the next jury gets to spend some time with her if the trial drags on, they will also get the sense that she's not right in the head. So what Juan needs to do, IMO, is if he sees that they might get that impression, then he NEEDS TO ADDRESS IT and tell the jury how they should approach it.
 
H all,
First time checking in today, work was so busy, that's what happens when you take a few days off.
Until July 18th, can't come fast enough.
 
How about a third option. Instead of getting hooked on Travon stuff that is on HLN, look at some videos of Andrea on the stand during her testitimony during her co conspiriators trial! It will hook you. She lies just like JA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You will now recognize it from our JA experience.

Quick background - (before I forget...ALL IS ALLEDGED as follows) she dated boss/boss and her had "secrect"affair/boss (at General Electric) wanted to marry her/they conspired to kill husband/first attempt to do it by gas meter...Hemy was caught and chased by husband Rusty/days later Hemy and Andrea met at her house, next am Hemy went and killed Andreas husband Rusty with a gun as Rusty was dropping of their son at the boys daycare/She called family and said Rusty was shot BEFORE ANYONE TOLD HER how her husband was killed.

Lots lots lots lots more that is unreal.....another Jodi...but interesting in that the prosecutor is like we think of Dt. Flores.....not Martinez

In this video, she starts to turn into the sociopath she is at about 6:30....if you don't have time to listen to it all of 21:00 video here, at least fast forward to that!

Andrea Sneiderman on stand in co conspirator trial

Here is WS thread again... Andrea Sneiderman Wesbleuths Thread Trial begins July 29th

There is a reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaly good 2 minute clip but don't have time to find it right now, others may now. But she absolutely looses it on the stand! :floorlaugh:

HTH. (This is the end of a public service notice and advertisement for another WS thread for a trial to start on July 29th, lol)

Ok, I'm :53 seconds in and the "I'm a trained dancer" already has me laughing. Oh this is going to be good. I'm just at the very beginning of learning about this case, and can't wait to dig in to it. Thanks for this teaser :)
 
If you have never dealt with a sociopath you truly can be easily blindsided. This is so hard to explain....they are chameleons and put on personas as quickly and easily as changing socks. Everyone has personality flaws. Thats different than a personality disorder Someone who is sociopathic will appear like everyone else. Like women who go through the same thing with men or another woman it is easy to explain away your gut feelings and figure they are just quirky. Or they are just showing how they care. Or any other host of things. It's so easy to be taken in when you have no experience or clue of what to look for.

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2

Scott Peck's The People of the Lie explains this really well. The SP'S ability to appear normal is exactly why they are so incredibly dangerous, and why seeing them for what they are is so difficult.

Seeing them for what they are is even more difficult if one is emotionally entangled with one, which Travis was.
 
How about a third option. Instead of getting hooked on Travon stuff that is on HLN, look at some videos of Andrea on the stand during her testitimony during her co conspiriators trial! It will hook you. She lies just like JA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You will now recognize it from our JA experience.

Here is WS thread again... Andrea Sneiderman Wesbleuths Thread Trial begins July 29th

HTH. (This is the end of a public service notice and advertisement for another WS thread for a trial to start on July 29th, lol)


Snipped :

:seeya:

WOW ... and so I am off to read the AS threads here ...

Thanks for the links !
 
What is the next big case everyone is going to follow?

I've been sorta following the Kelly Soo Park trial which is currently in verdict watch.

Los Angeles.

I've also been reading up on the Stephanie Lazarus trial and conviction. Talk about justice delayed. She's the former LAPD detective convicted of the brutal murder of a nurse who had married her ex-boyfriend. She stalked her and the woman's parents were convinced from the get-go she was involved but LAPD believed it was a robbery gone wrong. It was a 23 year old cold case solved by a DNA match with a sample taken from a bite mark on the victim's arm.

48 Hours did a show on the case - it's excellent!

ONE OF THEIR OWN

One of Their Own - 48 Hours - CBS News
 
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