SIDEBAR #8- Arias/Alexander forum

Status
Not open for further replies.
I swear I'm not stalking bettybaby but a couple of things she posted in the other thread resonated with me. :D

... I also think with that answer to a juror question, she felt her "I honestly don't know," would come across as "so honest."

Agree 100%. I thought the same thing about her feverish little brain spinning around and telling her to say something that means "I could lie right now and say yes but since you all think I'm a shameless liar, I'm going to just feign candidness so you'll see I don't really lie ALL the time." :rolleyes:

Like the Terminator in the first movie with the computerized visual list of "appropriate responses" to human situations. lol

... she never replies that she would never hurt him, or that she would do something that would have changed the outcome....put another way, she never states any sort of scenario where Travis doesn't end up dead!

Font increased and bold added by me.

Jeesh. I never, ever thought of that! Each time she was asked what she would have done differently, she never says, "I would never have gone to Mesa that night ..." or "I would have gotten myself out of the house right away ..."

Instead she says, "I would have turned the car around and gone straight to the Mesa police." You're right. No matter what, her intent was for Travis to die that night and there is nothing she can do to prevent that from seeping out.

Wow. Never made that connection before and it blows my mind all over again at her cold intent.
 
From the last thread.

At the risk of having rotten fruit thrown my way, I'll play devils advocate for a bit (perspective below is not my own).

I can understand how a juror who hasn't ever dug deep into another murder trial or case and who has never had to deal with a BPD person or the like, could have had difficulty understanding how a young woman commit such a savage murder. Enough evidence was excluded for a reasonable person to believe that the killer had lived an ordinary enough life up to the time she met Travis.

Yes she dropped out of school and hit her mother and didn't have much ambition and was extremely nosey and didn't like it when her boyfriends cheated on her. How many thousands of young women like that must there be, though.

It wasn't until she got involved with Travis that she truly went off the rails. That's just a fact.

Equipped with one set of biases, she was normal enough till then. He yanked her chains by saying he didn't want a relationship, but telling her I love you and wanting to have sex. He said awful things to her. He said to friends that she was stalking him and that he was afraid of her, but he kept calling. Whether he knew she was coming or not on June 4, he had sex with her that day instead of calling the police.

He was conflicted. Being conflicted could make him feel angry with himself and angry with her, and cause him to push and pull her.

If she has BPD, maybe that push and pull ultimately pushed her over the ledge. Doesn't make it his fault, but allows for the reality that the events leading up to the murder itself involved two people, not just the killer.

When I write "you" I mean the generic "you." :D

To me, the bold sentence is key.

For the life of me, I cannot craft an argument in order to play devil's advocate for this case. I've tried.

The bold sentence is why. Yes, she was able to contain her crazy until she met Travis. No doubt.

But there were many signs along the road CMja traveled to indicate the genie was just about out of the bottle.

She fixated and attached herself to men. Whenever she felt threatened, she panicked. When she panicked she'd do something desperate to retain control of the person. The first time it happened years and years ago, it was probably something cute and funny that the first love interest probably found flattering or even enchanting.

But each subsequent time was less funny, less cute and increasingly disturbing. Any time she felt threatened or rejected in subsequent relationships, the panicked response made her create drama and before long, it was downright exasperating then annoying. No one ever called her on it because it wasn't "crazy" just irritating. By the time it got to crazy, they were just happy she dumped them.

It was only a matter of time before she became lethal. So Travis could just as easily have been Walter or Brian or David or Wayne. Anyone.

I don't believe Travis did anything that any other guy in the same stage of life would have done or would do. That isn't an excuse, just a reality check.

PPL and LDS were just particulars that came along with Travis; seemed like just red herrings that threw the general public off the discussion of a murderous beast. PPL and LDS were not strange things that somehow paved the road to this disaster.

She was 27 years old, wanted to get married and have children and the biological clock wasn't ticking, it was blowing up. She knew what he had told her about Deanna being almost 30 and what that meant in LDS if she wasn't married.

She was pissed because starting over meant losing time and she felt she had no time to spare. I don't believe she loved him. She loved the future she saw with him but she was fixated and obsessed.

The more she panicked, the more she acted out and the more she acted out, the more fearful Travis became and the faster he backed off. He was trying to find forgiveness for himself and his transgressions. He probably thought it would be hypocritical to continue asking for forgiveness for himself and not extend it to CMja. (for her to call him hypocritical makes my blood boil) Travis just had no idea her crazy was about to get buck wild.

It could have been anyone. It could have been for any reason. Just paying attention to her was enough for her to build dreams in her head.

If it were only about the sex and feeling used, one good stab wound would have done it, maybe two if she missed the first time.

The savagery of the attack makes it clear TO ME that this didn't have much to do with feeling used for sex or whether or not TA should or shouldn't have had sex with her. It was rage because she wasn't going to get what she wanted and it was because he foiled her plans and he wasn't sorry about it. I'm sure she felt TA was her last hope.

Guilting him didn't work. Sexing him didn't work. Angering him didn't work. She was probably thinking WTF do I have to do here?

She was probably about ready to start over and focus on Ryan when TA discovered whatever it was he discovered and that's when the gates of hell opened for him.

In my view, she was a grown a$$ woman in the mutha of all snits behaving like an even more demented Chucky.

J M O

And with that thesis, it's off to work I go. lol
 
All caught up and going through court withdrawal. I refuse to get sucked into Zimmerman so I think I might join a gym and try to lose the 15lbs I gained watching JA lol

And I blame her personally! :cupcake::cupcake::cupcake::cupcake::cupcake:
 
I loved the squirrel tips/talk. I love squirrels but I have a mean one. If I come close to his tree he hisses/chatters at me. I feel as if he is going to jump on me and attack. I wondered if squirrels can become infected with rabies. Yay for the sidebar threads! A little bit of everything!

No- squirrels aren't typically a risk for carrying rabies. Yours might be a she squirrel protecting a nest. Awwwwwww I love them too!

http://www.cdc.gov/rabies/pets/
Small mammals such as squirrels, rats, mice, hamsters, guinea pigs, gerbils, chipmunks, rabbits, and hares are almost never found to be infected with rabies and have not been known to cause rabies among humans in the United States. Bites by these animals are usually not considered a risk of rabies unless the animal was sick or behaving in any unusual manner and rabies is widespread in your area.
 
From the last thread.



When I write "you" I mean the generic "you." :D

To me, the bold sentence is key.

For the life of me, I cannot craft an argument in order to play devil's advocate for this case. I've tried.

The bold sentence is why. Yes, she was able to contain her crazy until she met Travis. No doubt.

But there were many signs along the road CMja traveled to indicate the genie was just about out of the bottle.

She fixated and attached herself to men. Whenever she felt threatened, she panicked. When she panicked she'd do something desperate to retain control of the person. The first time it happened years and years ago, it was probably something cute and funny that the first love interest probably found flattering or even enchanting.

But each subsequent time was less funny, less cute and increasingly disturbing. Any time she felt threatened or rejected in subsequent relationships, the panicked response made her create drama and before long, it was downright exasperating then annoying. No one ever called her on it because it wasn't "crazy" just irritating. By the time it got to crazy, they were just happy she dumped them.

It was only a matter of time before she became lethal. So Travis could just as easily have been Walter or Brian or David or Wayne. Anyone.

I don't believe Travis did anything that any other guy in the same stage of life would have done or would do. That isn't an excuse, just a reality check.

PPL and LDS were just particulars that came along with Travis; seemed like just red herrings that threw the general public off the discussion of a murderous beast. PPL and LDS were not strange things that somehow paved the road to this disaster.

She was 27 years old, wanted to get married and have children and the biological clock wasn't ticking, it was blowing up. She knew what he had told her about Deanna being almost 30 and what that meant in LDS if she wasn't married.

She was pissed because starting over meant losing time and she felt she had no time to spare. I don't believe she loved him. She loved the future she saw with him but she was fixated and obsessed.

The more she panicked, the more she acted out and the more she acted out, the more fearful Travis became and the faster he backed off. He was trying to find forgiveness for himself and his transgressions. He probably thought it would be hypocritical to continue asking for forgiveness for himself and not extend it to CMja. (for her to call him hypocritical makes my blood boil) Travis just had no idea her crazy was about to get buck wild.

It could have been anyone. It could have been for any reason. Just paying attention to her was enough for her to build dreams in her head.

If it were only about the sex and feeling used, one good stab wound would have done it, maybe two if she missed the first time.

The savagery of the attack makes it clear TO ME that this didn't have much to do with feeling used for sex or whether or not TA should or shouldn't have had sex with her. It was rage because she wasn't going to get what she wanted and it was because he foiled her plans and he wasn't sorry about it. I'm sure she felt TA was her last hope.

Guilting him didn't work. Sexing him didn't work. Angering him didn't work. She was probably thinking WTF do I have to do here?

She was probably about ready to start over and focus on Ryan when TA discovered whatever it was he discovered and that's when the gates of hell opened for him.

In my view, she was a grown a$$ woman in the mutha of all snits behaving like an even more demented Chucky.

J M O

And with that thesis, it's off to work I go. lol

I appreciate the analysis. Her insanity surely did not start with Travis. Imo, it goes back even farther than that, back to probably childhood.

The whole story will eventually come out. It will include eyewitness accounts of people that knew her since she was small. They probably saw the signs of sociopathy starting at a young age.

A lot of people have been in relationships where the anger, at times, was intense. Some have even had fantasies of retribution and revenge! But the percentage that will carry through in such a savage manner, especially women, are very few and far between. A large percentage of that population are psychopaths, and I think that includes Jodi Ann Arias. :moo::moo::moo:
 
No- squirrels aren't typically a risk for carrying rabies. Yours might be a she squirrel protecting a nest. Awwwwwww I love them too!

http://www.cdc.gov/rabies/pets/
Small mammals such as squirrels, rats, mice, hamsters, guinea pigs, gerbils, chipmunks, rabbits, and hares are almost never found to be infected with rabies and have not been known to cause rabies among humans in the United States. Bites by these animals are usually not considered a risk of rabies unless the animal was sick or behaving in any unusual manner and rabies is widespread in your area.

Thanks, kaRN. It's nice to have an expert onboard!

There was an incident when I was young. I believe a neighborhood kid got bitten by a squirrel, and it was running around like a maniac. One of the neighborhood dads got a board and hit it, right there in front of all us kids, so he could take it to be checked for rabies.

I believe the child got shots, just in case. As a child, I didn't follow up, and don't know if the squirrel actually had rabies. You certainly couldn't tell from their behavior, as squirrels always act crazy (when they're not just standing there being cute)!
 
I do really like Auburn...it's impossible not to like Auburn. My mom went to Bama and my summers were spent down in Hamilton Ala at my grandparents.

I lived in Wisconsin for a year and became a Badger fan and Packers took my heart. Basically I am just a football addict. I know admitting it is the first step...lol

I am still a huge Bo Jackson Fan.

What? :scared:
THE PACKERS?
Oh, Pferrin... I am a Bears fan! :rockon:
Can't wait for the season to begin!
 
I loved the squirrel tips/talk. I love squirrels but I have a mean one. If I come close to his tree he hisses/chatters at me. I feel as if he is going to jump on me and attack. I wondered if squirrels can become infected with rabies. Yay for the sidebar threads! A little bit of everything!

Agreed, that is the whole point of a Sidebar thread... any topic. Although I am not particularly interested in squirrels, it's acceptable on this thread. I just scroll past if I am not interested.
 
Posted in previous thread by YesorNO

I'll help you put the needle in
I'm 63 yrs old and feel the same way you do, but some of the jury were not her "peers". They were too old in their thinking about "young women". I've been saying this for at least a couple of months already.
I'm just glad the jurors gave JA premed. murder- thank goodness for that.
Juan should try for younger jurors who know all about how people text (listen to me-- as if I know more than JM- ).


I watched JVM and DD last night and according to Juror 10 age was more of a factor in the jurors who voted for life instead of DP. She also said Jodi was staring at her at one point for about 40 seconds. Long enough for another juror to make a statement about Jodi staring at her. On DD last night, the younger juror with dark hair (Juror No 17) said Jodi stared at her for a while and then scribbled something down on paper.

Then, we also know Tri-color juror was booted off the jury. She was also younger than most of the other jurors.

I believe Jodi's strategy was to get all the young women off the jury. Younger women had a history of seeing through Jodi and her creepy traits and personality. Just like Dr. Samuels and ALV, Jodi knew she could bring them over to her side.

I agree that Juan needs to stack the next jury with as many younger people as possible to sway the odds toward the DP.
 
Not familiar with the Caryn Kelley case. She has been found not guilty. I don't understand why some people change stories. If it's the truth then there will one story from start to finish. Also, I don't get how the gun went off by accident.

If the jury made the right decision (I don't know enough about the case) then that's good. Florida scares me!
 
From the last thread.



When I write "you" I mean the generic "you." :D

To me, the bold sentence is key.

For the life of me, I cannot craft an argument in order to play devil's advocate for this case. I've tried.

The bold sentence is why. Yes, she was able to contain her crazy until she met Travis. No doubt.

But there were many signs along the road CMja traveled to indicate the genie was just about out of the bottle.

She fixated and attached herself to men. Whenever she felt threatened, she panicked. When she panicked she'd do something desperate to retain control of the person. The first time it happened years and years ago, it was probably something cute and funny that the first love interest probably found flattering or even enchanting.



But each subsequent time was less funny, less cute and increasingly disturbing. Any time she felt threatened or rejected in subsequent relationships, the panicked response made her create drama and before long, it was downright exasperating then annoying. No one ever called her on it because it wasn't "crazy" just irritating. By the time it got to crazy, they were just happy she dumped them.

It was only a matter of time before she became lethal. So Travis could just as easily have been Walter or Brian or David or Wayne. Anyone.

I don't believe Travis did anything that any other guy in the same stage of life would have done or would do. That isn't an excuse, just a reality check.

PPL and LDS were just particulars that came along with Travis; seemed like just red herrings that threw the general public off the discussion of a murderous beast. PPL and LDS were not strange things that somehow paved the road to this disaster.

She was 27 years old, wanted to get married and have children and the biological clock wasn't ticking, it was blowing up. She knew what he had told her about Deanna being almost 30 and what that meant in LDS if she wasn't married.

She was pissed because starting over meant losing time and she felt she had no time to spare. I don't believe she loved him. She loved the future she saw with him but she was fixated and obsessed.

The more she panicked, the more she acted out and the more she acted out, the more fearful Travis became and the faster he backed off. He was trying to find forgiveness for himself and his transgressions. He probably thought it would be hypocritical to continue asking for forgiveness for himself and not extend it to CMja. (for her to call him hypocritical makes my blood boil) Travis just had no idea her crazy was about to get buck wild.

It could have been anyone. It could have been for any reason. Just paying attention to her was enough for her to build dreams in her head.

If it were only about the sex and feeling used, one good stab wound would have done it, maybe two if she missed the first time.

The savagery of the attack makes it clear TO ME that this didn't have much to do with feeling used for sex or whether or not TA should or shouldn't have had sex with her. It was rage because she wasn't going to get what she wanted and it was because he foiled her plans and he wasn't sorry about it. I'm sure she felt TA was her last hope.

Guilting him didn't work. Sexing him didn't work. Angering him didn't work. She was probably thinking WTF do I have to do here?

She was probably about ready to start over and focus on Ryan when TA discovered whatever it was he discovered and that's when the gates of hell opened for him.

In my view, she was a grown a$$ woman in the mutha of all snits behaving like an even more demented Chucky.

J M O

And with that thesis, it's off to work I go. lol

Thanks for your thoughtful response. The key thing I was trying to illustrate is how jurors' assumptions/biases etc, inevitably color how they view the evidence, and thus their deliberations.

Another illustration.

Here's the me that is not playing devil's advocate. After this trial I could for the first time sit on a DP-qualified jury. Before this I would have answered no, I could not impose the DP. I would also be telling the truth to say yes, I could vote for life even if the defendant is convicted of a brutal premed murder.

At this point, though, I would be a DT's worse nightmare. Yes, I could vote for life, and saying that I could would not make me a stealth DP juror. The assumption I would carry with me into the jury box, though, is that whatever is being presented in court is skewed.

The DT will try to sully the victim, and what I'll hear will not represent the full truth about the victim. I'll know that the DT has far more latitude in what they get to present, and that the story they are telling me could be nothing more that that.

I'll know that the State's burden is enormous, that pertinent evidence about the defendant wasn't allowed in, that my fellow jurors can be bamboozled by lowered chairs, crocodile tears and the defendant's choice of costume and hairstyle.

I'm not saying that I would presuppose guilt. I am saying that I'm self-aware enough to know that my assumptions would filter the evidence being presented. I would be very unlikely to give the benefit of the doubt to the defendant if during deliberations we were discussing an ambiguous piece of evidence, especially if the other pieces of the evidence mosaic were falling into a guilt pattern. And, if convinced of guilt, I would listen to opposing opinions, but I would not back down.

As I said, no DT would want me on their jury.
 
Maya would verbally slap the snot out of her.

CMja would have been better served memorizing these more appropriate Maya Angelou quotes:


“Never make someone a priority when all you are to them is an option.”

“There is no greater agony than bearing an untold story inside you.”

"The first time someone shows you who they are, believe them"

Wish Maya Angelou could have told TA that in person.
 
Good Morning, Sleuthers! Hey Harmony, where's the buffet? LOL

[video=youtube;qqXMM8v9vn0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqXMM8v9vn0[/video]
 
From the last thread.



When I write "you" I mean the generic "you." :D

To me, the bold sentence is key.

For the life of me, I cannot craft an argument in order to play devil's advocate for this case. I've tried.

The bold sentence is why. Yes, she was able to contain her crazy until she met Travis. No doubt.

But there were many signs along the road CMja traveled to indicate the genie was just about out of the bottle.

She fixated and attached herself to men. Whenever she felt threatened, she panicked. When she panicked she'd do something desperate to retain control of the person. The first time it happened years and years ago, it was probably something cute and funny that the first love interest probably found flattering or even enchanting.



But each subsequent time was less funny, less cute and increasingly disturbing. Any time she felt threatened or rejected in subsequent relationships, the panicked response made her create drama and before long, it was downright exasperating then annoying. No one ever called her on it because it wasn't "crazy" just irritating. By the time it got to crazy, they were just happy she dumped them.

It was only a matter of time before she became lethal. So Travis could just as easily have been Walter or Brian or David or Wayne. Anyone.

I don't believe Travis did anything that any other guy in the same stage of life would have done or would do. That isn't an excuse, just a reality check.

PPL and LDS were just particulars that came along with Travis; seemed like just red herrings that threw the general public off the discussion of a murderous beast. PPL and LDS were not strange things that somehow paved the road to this disaster.

She was 27 years old, wanted to get married and have children and the biological clock wasn't ticking, it was blowing up. She knew what he had told her about Deanna being almost 30 and what that meant in LDS if she wasn't married.

She was pissed because starting over meant losing time and she felt she had no time to spare. I don't believe she loved him. She loved the future she saw with him but she was fixated and obsessed.

The more she panicked, the more she acted out and the more she acted out, the more fearful Travis became and the faster he backed off. He was trying to find forgiveness for himself and his transgressions. He probably thought it would be hypocritical to continue asking for forgiveness for himself and not extend it to CMja. (for her to call him hypocritical makes my blood boil) Travis just had no idea her crazy was about to get buck wild.

It could have been anyone. It could have been for any reason. Just paying attention to her was enough for her to build dreams in her head.

If it were only about the sex and feeling used, one good stab wound would have done it, maybe two if she missed the first time.

The savagery of the attack makes it clear TO ME that this didn't have much to do with feeling used for sex or whether or not TA should or shouldn't have had sex with her. It was rage because she wasn't going to get what she wanted and it was because he foiled her plans and he wasn't sorry about it. I'm sure she felt TA was her last hope.

Guilting him didn't work. Sexing him didn't work. Angering him didn't work. She was probably thinking WTF do I have to do here?

She was probably about ready to start over and focus on Ryan when TA discovered whatever it was he discovered and that's when the gates of hell opened for him.

In my view, she was a grown a$$ woman in the mutha of all snits behaving like an even more demented Chucky.

J M O

And with that thesis, it's off to work I go. lol

Thanks for your thoughtful response. The key thing I was trying to illustrate is how jurors' assumptions/biases etc, inevitably color how they view the evidence, and thus their deliberations.

Another illustration.

Here's the me that is not playing devil's advocate. After this trial I could for the first time sit on a DP-qualified jury. Before this I would have answered no, I could not impose the DP. I would also be telling the truth to say yes, I could vote for life even if the defendant is convicted of a brutal premed murder.

At this point, though, I would be a DT's worse nightmare. Yes, I could vote for life, and saying that I could would not make me a stealth DP juror. The assumption I would carry with me into the jury box, though, is that whatever is being presented in court is skewed.

The DT will try to sully the victim, and what I'll hear will not represent the full truth about the victim. I'll know that the DT has far more latitude in what they get to present, and that the story they are telling me could be nothing more that that.

I'll know that the State's burden is enormous, that pertinent evidence about the defendant wasn't allowed in, that my fellow jurors can be bamboozled by lowered chairs, crocodile tears and the defendant's choice of costume and hairstyle.

I'm not saying that I would presuppose guilt. I am saying that I'm self-aware enough to know that my assumptions would filter the evidence being presented. I would be very unlikely to give the benefit of the doubt to the defendant if during deliberations we were discussing an ambiguous piece of evidence, especially if the other pieces of the evidence mosaic were falling into a guilt pattern. And, if convinced of guilt, I would listen to opposing opinions, but I would not back down.

As I said, no DT would want me on their jury.
 
Some like music videos, but I need Squirrel answers here.....We have squirrels all over the place in our neighborhood including nests in our trees - I was walking down the driveway to get the paper one day, and one of our little squirrels stopped right in front of me about 4 feet way and just stared at me. I said to self, so I am being held hostage by a squirrel ? Anyway - I also love my birds, especially the Cardinals that I love to feed. I have tried everything to keep the squirrels out of my bird feeders but it just is not possible. I tried Crisco on the pole for awhile - Squirrel jumps up the pole and slides on down - after they go rub their bellies in the dirt - the are persistent and finally make it to the feeder and tip it upside down and gobble up all the sunflower and safflower seed just when the Cardinals are getting used to their new feeding place. (I don't use Vaseline on the pole because that is harmful to the squirrel). What's the answer?

Forgive me for this War Eagle, but here goes:

A pump pellet gun and a good eye. We have the same dayam problem here -- lots of beautiful birds, too. The cardinals and the squirrels like sunflower seeds, and, as you know, the squirrels get up there & spill all the un-sunflower seed on the ground -- at least the lazy doves like that! -- and the squirrels then get the sunflowers that the cardinals should be eating.

I got three squirrels in one day -- my personal best. I apologize to the squirrel-lovers out there, but I know of no other remedy. I only do it when they are especially bad.
icon9.gif
 
Last Saturday morning, I started to sign into WS and typed dr. drew of all people as my user name, ha ha gar at the moment...What's that mean? Don't answer...Dr. Know? Where's the question mark huh, Dr. Drew? Whoops...Next.

He's good but it's almost like having that fake chef doing the chef cooking show. DeMarte slammed all of them to their shame on the stand. All of them Samuels, Alv & that other guy. Even Drew can't tackle her diagnosis or evaluation of Jodi. No one. I think she needs to speak more. jmo

Well, he's not a psychologist or psychiatrist, he's an addiction specialist, and an MD Internist. So, you're right, posing as a psychiatrist is a bit of a fake cooking show act. But he's got great game! Check out all those women on his show! Gotta hand it to him on that.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
179
Guests online
2,228
Total visitors
2,407

Forum statistics

Threads
589,975
Messages
17,928,583
Members
228,029
Latest member
MichaelKeell
Back
Top