George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin General discussion #3

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So if your son ends up dating a girl you don't like, or whose behavior you find objectionable, it will be all right with you if we consider her behaviors in making our evaluation of his character?

Just checking.

I would not be happy but - it would reveal something in his character. There would be NO reason for him to speak with someone for hours unless they had things in common...and if he felt comfortable saying those things to her and she candidly repeats them on the witness stand.... yes - I would expect others to conclude that it reveals something about my son's character. Being raised in the south - he has friends of all races and would never use such language....neither my husband not myself would tolerate our children or their friends talking like that....
 
I've been a witness more than once. I'm a very honest and straightforward person. Once when the defense lawyer kept asking me the same question over and over because he didn't like my answer...and there was no objection... I answered super obnoxiously slow and I know I rolled my eyes hard.
It happens. People aren't perfect nor are they machines. Humans are emotional beings and despite our best efforts, sometimes they leak out all over the place.
Put yourself in her shoes.

Linda, thanks button not enough. :seeya:
 
Obviously. But to this point, it doesn't sound like she's lied about anything significant. She lied about her age and and lied about her reason for not attending a wake. That's not enough. Her story of what she heard when she was on the phone with Trayvon has pretty much not changed. I believe her.
The only lies she's been caught in are lies that she can be impeached on - as in, lies that she can be factually proven to be lies. In my opinion, it shows a disregard for the oath she took and opens up the possibility that she's lying about other things that aren't as easy to fact-check.
 
So you think the racial slur creepy *advertiser censored** cra**er is humorous?
Using HUMOR?

The double standards are ridiculous IMO.

I never thought "cracker" was a racial slur. When my kids were teens they would call each other that and ni**a. I freaked out about the "n" word, but they told me it was all in fun. They had hispanic friends, AA friends, all kinds of friends. This was in the mid to late 1990's.

Now, I live in a pretty racist part of TX and some people say the "n" word in an entirely different way here and they are adults. I did not think TM said those words in a racist way. IME MOO :moo:
 
Yesterday I posted three videos to prove that Zimmerman's story had in fact changed: the recorded non emergency call, the walk through with LE the day after the shooting and the interview with LE including the "voice stress test". I was then asked to please tell what the issues were that I felt was a change in story since all three videos equaled to over 2 hours. Last night I watched and transcribed the non emergency call and the walk through video. I will not be posting the entire transcriptions as they are very long however I will post excerpts from them to show the change.

From the non emergency recorded call:
He's at the clubhouse. Yea now he's coming towards me.
From the walk through:
I parked here at the clubhouse to call non emergency. He walked towards me.
So far so good.

From the non emergency call:
D- ok he's near the clubhouse?
Z- yea now he's coming towards me, he's got his hand in his waistband............something's wrong with him, yep. he's coming to check me out, he's got something in his hand, I don't know what his deal is
D- ok just let me know if he does anything ok
Z- get the cops over here
D- yea they're on the way, just let me know if he does anything else
Z- ok, these a@@holes always get away

From the walk through:
@4:56
dispatcher asked where did he go? Which way did he go? I lost him, the cut down here and made a right in there and they said what direction did he go in? And I said I don't know I can't see him and he said can you get to somewhere where you can see him? And I said yea I can so I backed out........
Now during this exchange Zimmerman is supposedly parked in the parking area for the clubhouse. Trayvon is on the other side of the road coming towards Zimmerman and then past him with the road between them.

From the walk through:
@5:41
And I parked at right about where that sign is in the yard..........yes and I saw him walking back that way and then cut through the back of the houses. He looked back and he noticed me and he cut back through the houses. I was still on the phone with non emergency um and then he came back and he started walking up towards the grass and then came down and circled my car and I told the operator that. He circled my car and I didn't hear if he said anything but he had his hand in his waistband and I think I told the operator that and they said where are you? And I couldn't remember the street cause I don't live on this street, Retreat View Circle goes in a circle and I said I don't know and he said we need an address and I said I don't know an address. I think I gave him my address and they said give us directions so that we can get to you and I said if you tell the police to go straight at the clubhouse and make a left my truck will be there. And again they asked me where he went, what direction he went in and I said I don't know and then I thought to get out and look for a street sign so I got out of my car and I started walking (at this point LE and Zimmerman get out of the police car). I was still on the phone with non emergency and I started walking down this way and because I didn't see a street sign here but I knew if I went straight through that that's Retreat View Circle and I could give them an address cause he said just give me the address you're in front of and there's no address cause it's the back of the houses so I walked up through here and I didn't see him at all. I was walking and I was still on the phone with non emergency. I got to about, I got to about here and I had a flashlight with me, flashlight was dead though and I looked around and I didn't see anybody and I told non emergency you know what, he's gone, he's not even here. So I still thought I could use their address and they said well if he's not there do you still want a police officer and I said yes. And they said are you following him, oh I'm sorry, back there they said are you following him and I said yes because I was, you know, in the area and he said we don't need you to do that and I said ok. So that's when I walked straight through here to get the address so that I could meet the police officer..............
From the non emergency call:
Z- sh@t he's running
D- he's running? which way is he running?
(car door opens and closes-Z is out of car)
Z- down towards the other entrance of the neighborhood
D- ok which entrance is that that he's headed towards?
Z- the back entrance
D- are you following him?
Z- yea
D- ok we don't need you to do that
Z- ok

Now there is ALOT wrong with this part. Zimmerman is claiming things that is clearly not in the recorded call. Zimmerman also changes his reason as to why he gets out of the car and neglects to tell LE that he was in fact following Trayvon.

From the non emergency call:
D- alright George, we have them on the way. do you want to meet with the officer when they get out there?
Z- yea
D- alright where are you going to meet with them at?
Z- um if they come in through the gate tell them to go straight past the clubhouse and make a left and then they go past the mailboxes they'll see my truck
D- ok what address are you parked in front of?
Z- um I don't know its a cut through street so I don't know the address
D- ok do you live in the area?
Z- yea yea
D- what's your apartment number?
Z- it's a home. it's .........oh crap I don't want to give it all out I don't know where this kid is
D- ok do you want to meet them right at the mailboxes then?
Z- yea that's fine.......actually could you have them call me and I'll tell them where I'm at?
D- ok that's no problem
Z- you need my number or you got it?
D- yea I got it...........
Z- ok
D- ok

From the walk through:
@9:18
And they said where do you want him to come to and I said you know what just tell him to meet me at my truck next to the clubhouse. If you go straight in through the clubhouse and make a left I am the Honda Ridgeline, silver Honda Ridgeline is parked right there, I'll meet him right there. So I started walking back.
This one seems rather obvious to me. Zimmerman never described his truck and he neglected to tell LE that he changed his mind and told the dispatcher to have LE call him instead to find out where he would be.
 
i was thinking about attending the trial in sanford tomorrow. i live close enough to drive to it. does anyone know if you need a ticket or does it look like theres empty seats? i went to casey hearings and at times it was a real pain to get in.

every day have watched so far there seems to be a lot of empty seats
 
You don't know anybody like her do you? I do. She minimized the racial slurs perhaps because she's grown up hearing them everyday. How very sad that should be her and TM's reality. Hardly a strike for the prosecution for the jury to learn that harsh reality. :twocents:

Completely agree.
 
So you think the racial slur creepy *advertiser censored** cra**er is humorous?
Using HUMOR?

The double standards are ridiculous IMO.

It was honest and yes it struck me as being funny as I can picture TM saying a creepy cr**ker is following him and her adding the word *advertiser censored** to the comment.
I took it as her way of joking that GZ might have another motive for following TM and in this world it could be a possibility....if you get my meaning.
She was kidding in a probably scary situation as friends often do.
The word cra**ker isn't that offensive to me and the N word is used often by many races,which I don't happen to like,but I saw it as honesty on her part to admit to TM having used the terminology.
IMO
 
She doesn't need to be fair to anybody. She's not on trial.

She needs to show respect for everyone there.

The eye rolling and "I could care less if i'm even here" attitude HAS to go.

IMO
 
IMO Rachel's attitude was very disrespectful. You don't openly complain about being questioned more and you don't talk back or roll your eyes at the lawyers OR prosecutors. Maybe it was youth or who she was raised around, but I'm the same age as her and I found it offensive. However, I don't think her lying does anything for the prosecution or defense. She could have just been traumatized. It depends on what the jury believes.

Hi morrow! It's great to have input from people your age and we need your perspective on this so thanks!!!! Me, I'm old enough to be your Mom :blushing: even though my ribbon looks very new LOL!
She was disrespectful to the cultural norms of the courthouse. No doubt about that. She came off to my older self though as credible however. I volunteer with single Moms her age at an inner city youth hostel and I do think she was overall being respectful. I know what true disrespect can look like and today was mild in my opinion. I don't think she was well prepared for what today would be like and it threw her for a loop for the reasons you posted. And I totally agree she may be traumatized and grieving and putting on a show of bravado. Anyway the jury is older and there are 5 Moms on it and hopefully they'lll be able to empathize with a 19 year old being very brave. I hope so at least! :seeya:
 
I never thought "cracker" was a racial slur. When my kids were teens they would call each other that and ni**a. I freaked out about the "n" word, but they told me it was all in fun. They had hispanic friends, AA friends, all kinds of friends. This was in the mid to late 1990's.

Now, I live in a pretty racist part of TX and some people say the "n" word in an entirely different way here and they are adults. I did not think TM said those words in a racist way. IME MOO :moo:

But it is.
And sure he did! To think he didn't mean it that way is naive.

JMO
 
Wow. I might have missed one or two of those calls played today, but I do not remember hearing anything about a 7 year old. Now that's a little ridiculous. I'd be interested in hearing that one if anyone has a link to it.

Is there any additional information about this call? I spent a few summers working with inner city youth in London and Russia. While we don't have any Roma (Gypsy) in the US, which is a whole different topic, truant youth around that age can cause trouble (theft, vandalism).

One girl that I got very close too was a very troubled 8 year old. She was running at large in London, which to me, meant that she was neglected. She really enjoyed having someone care about her and where she was. She did break into the church one day was caught by local people before she could roam through our stuff. The local people did warn us she was known to steal. I think the fact that we still allowed her to be around after that really meant something to her.

It's been almost 20 years now and I still wonder how things turned out for her. It breaks my heart to think that some American kids on a summer missions trip were more concerned about this child than her parents. Why would anyone have a child and not care about his or her welfare.

My thoughts are, by making a call to the police, there is a record of a potentially neglected child. Maybe I'm extra biased because of a recent death of a baby left in a car in my town. The father may have a brain injury (he was hit by a train as a kid) and may not be capable of caring for all of his children (while the mom is at work).

The police had shown up before to the home and called CPS because of the condition of the home, but no action was taken until the baby died. The neighbors have talked to the media about the children being at large and hungry. It appears there needed to be more items on record for the authorities to action.
 
The only lies she's been caught in are lies that she can be impeached on - as in, lies that she can be factually proven to be lies. In my opinion, it shows a disregard for the oath she took and opens up the possibility that she's lying about other things that aren't as easy to fact-check.

1. They are insignificant in the grand scheme of things. They have nothing to do with the case.

2. She's admitted to them.

3. The important stuff, her story about what she heard on the phone, save for what exactly George said, has never changed. I believe she's telling the truth. That's all that matters.
 
Yesterday I posted three videos to prove that Zimmerman's story had in fact changed: the recorded non emergency call, the walk through with LE the day after the shooting and the interview with LE including the "voice stress test". I was then asked to please tell what the issues were that I felt was a change in story since all three videos equaled to over 2 hours. Last night I watched and transcribed the non emergency call and the walk through video. I will not be posting the entire transcriptions as they are very long however I will post excerpts from them to show the change.

From the non emergency recorded call:
He's at the clubhouse. Yea now he's coming towards me.
From the walk through:
I parked here at the clubhouse to call non emergency. He walked towards me.
So far so good.

From the non emergency call:
D- ok he's near the clubhouse?
Z- yea now he's coming towards me, he's got his hand in his waistband............something's wrong with him, yep. he's coming to check me out, he's got something in his hand, I don't know what his deal is
D- ok just let me know if he does anything ok
Z- get the cops over here
D- yea they're on the way, just let me know if he does anything else
Z- ok, these a@@holes always get away

From the walk through:
@4:56
dispatcher asked where did he go? Which way did he go? I lost him, the cut down here and made a right in there and they said what direction did he go in? And I said I don't know I can't see him and he said can you get to somewhere where you can see him? And I said yea I can so I backed out........
Now during this exchange Zimmerman is supposedly parked in the parking area for the clubhouse. Trayvon is on the other side of the road coming towards Zimmerman and then past him with the road between them.

From the walk through:
@5:41
And I parked at right about where that sign is in the yard..........yes and I saw him walking back that way and then cut through the back of the houses. He looked back and he noticed me and he cut back through the houses. I was still on the phone with non emergency um and then he came back and he started walking up towards the grass and then came down and circled my car and I told the operator that. He circled my car and I didn't hear if he said anything but he had his hand in his waistband and I think I told the operator that and they said where are you? And I couldn't remember the street cause I don't live on this street, Retreat View Circle goes in a circle and I said I don't know and he said we need an address and I said I don't know an address. I think I gave him my address and they said give us directions so that we can get to you and I said if you tell the police to go straight at the clubhouse and make a left my truck will be there. And again they asked me where he went, what direction he went in and I said I don't know and then I thought to get out and look for a street sign so I got out of my car and I started walking (at this point LE and Zimmerman get out of the police car). I was still on the phone with non emergency and I started walking down this way and because I didn't see a street sign here but I knew if I went straight through that that's Retreat View Circle and I could give them an address cause he said just give me the address you're in front of and there's no address cause it's the back of the houses so I walked up through here and I didn't see him at all. I was walking and I was still on the phone with non emergency. I got to about, I got to about here and I had a flashlight with me, flashlight was dead though and I looked around and I didn't see anybody and I told non emergency you know what, he's gone, he's not even here. So I still thought I could use their address and they said well if he's not there do you still want a police officer and I said yes. And they said are you following him, oh I'm sorry, back there they said are you following him and I said yes because I was, you know, in the area and he said we don't need you to do that and I said ok. So that's when I walked straight through here to get the address so that I could meet the police officer..............
From the non emergency call:
Z- sh@t he's running
D- he's running? which way is he running?
(car door opens and closes-Z is out of car)
Z- down towards the other entrance of the neighborhood
D- ok which entrance is that that he's headed towards?
Z- the back entrance
D- are you following him?
Z- yea
D- ok we don't need you to do that
Z- ok

Now there is ALOT wrong with this part. Zimmerman is claiming things that is clearly not in the recorded call. Zimmerman also changes his reason as to why he gets out of the car and neglects to tell LE that he was in fact following Trayvon.

From the non emergency call:
D- alright George, we have them on the way. do you want to meet with the officer when they get out there?
Z- yea
D- alright where are you going to meet with them at?
Z- um if they come in through the gate tell them to go straight past the clubhouse and make a left and then they go past the mailboxes they'll see my truck
D- ok what address are you parked in front of?
Z- um I don't know its a cut through street so I don't know the address
D- ok do you live in the area?
Z- yea yea
D- what's your apartment number?
Z- it's a home. it's .........oh crap I don't want to give it all out I don't know where this kid is
D- ok do you want to meet them right at the mailboxes then?
Z- yea that's fine.......actually could you have them call me and I'll tell them where I'm at?
D- ok that's no problem
Z- you need my number or you got it?
D- yea I got it...........
Z- ok
D- ok

From the walk through:
@9:18
And they said where do you want him to come to and I said you know what just tell him to meet me at my truck next to the clubhouse. If you go straight in through the clubhouse and make a left I am the Honda Ridgeline, silver Honda Ridgeline is parked right there, I'll meet him right there. So I started walking back.
This one seems rather obvious to me. Zimmerman never described his truck and he neglected to tell LE that he changed his mind and told the dispatcher to have LE call him instead to find out where he would be.

You are my hero!!!!!! Seriously. Awesome.
So, yeah, GZ's a liar. Thanks for confirming.
 
It was honest and yes it struck me as being funny as I can picture TM saying a creepy cr**ker is following him and her adding the word *advertiser censored** to the comment.
I took it as her way of joking that GZ might have another motive for following TM and in this world it could be a possibility....if you get my meaning.
She was kidding in a probably scary situation as friends often do.
The word cra**ker isn't that offensive to me and the N word is used often by many races,which I don't happen to like,but I saw it as honesty on her part to admit to TM having used the terminology.
IMO

That's just a double standard.
We both know some words just don't fly when some people say them.
Ask Paula Deen.

JMO
 
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