George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin General discussion #3

[Moonie]

Head wounds bleed, a lot. It was barely a scratch. His clothes were spotless. The mark on his nose would best be described as a nic like from shaving. No way was his nose broken.

All IMO.

The bolded statement is interesting. Has there been any explanation as to why George's clothes show no signs of him being on his back on the wet terrain and the wet grass as he was being "beaten"? Even the backs of his shoes were clean. They should have had mud on them from the struggle to get up from the grass and regain his footing. That's another oddity in this case. IMO.

 

[Words2Serve]

i agree with everything you said in #2 except what i put in red. I haven't seen that clearly shown at all yet. I don't think he set out to kill anyone, but i haven't seen anything other than his own say so that he truly thought his life was in danger. He had some superficial wounds. That, and he has his story. It's not enough information for me to conclude that he had no other choice than to pull out his gun and kill someone.

I will wait and see what all the evidence shows on both sides.

perfect! I love this!

 

[m00c0w]

None of this would have come about if George had waited for the police as he was advised by the dispatcher.
IMO

None of this would have happened if Martin had not confronted Zimmerman, punched him, and bashed his head against the sidewalk.

IMO

 

[polleypockets]

Under Florida Law, George only has to be in reasonable fear for his life.

but wouldn't the same standard also apply to TM??

 

[claudicici]

So many lies put out there by the media. DeeDee was supposed to be a 16yo so traumatized she had to be hospitalized and could not attend the funeral or the 'awakening' - none of it true. She let TM's mother think she was 16 because she didn't want to face her. What is this being in a closet thing while talking on the phone with the attorney? This chick is nuts and I don't believe anything she said. Why the constant back and forth phone calls just talking about nothing but buying skittles and rain? Sounds more like some kind of hang up/call back/hang up/call back. Hundreds and hundreds of texts which she said were not all hers. Is it possible to anyone here that this 19yo high-school-senior-this-fall was pursuing TM? If they were such close friends since kindergarten how come the mother and father didn't know her? IMO her story is big time shady!

I mentioned that before but IMO Trayvon was cheating on his girlfriend with DeeDee.Under that context it would all make sense.That's why she was so scared that someone read their text messages IMO

 

[m00c0w]

The bolded statement is interesting. Has there been any explanation as to why George's clothes show no signs of him being on his back on the wet terrain and the wet grass as he was being "beaten"? Even the backs of his shoes were clean. They should have had mud on them from the struggle to get up from the grass and regain his footing. That's another oddity in this case. IMO.

IMO, they were not as spotless when actually shown in court.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

None of this would have come about if George had waited for the police as he was advised by the dispatcher.
IMO

Getting out of a car: legal/not a crime
Following someone: legal/not a crime
Asking someone what they are doing: legal/not a crime

Punching someone in the nose: illegal/crime

 

[TorisMom003]

None of this would have happened if Martin had not confronted Zimmerman, punched him, and bashed his head against the sidewalk.

IMO

"Facts" not proven yet. Saying it over and over does not make it fact. Hearing it from a man that shot and killed a young man and is on trial for 2nd degree murder does not make it fact.

Moo

 

[MeeBee]

Considering he was conducting a lawful activity if he did not threaten, assault, or batter Martin... Yes, he would be completely innocent if the defense's side of the story is true.

Him being stupid and getting out of his truck to try and help police find where Martin was going should not be a death sentence.

:moo:

He's innocent of the murder charge, but is he COMPLETELY innocent?

I don't think so.

I don't think, IMO, it's as simple as he got out of his truck, he was told to go back, and he did and then Martin attacked him. George at the very least confronted him and, IMO, continued to pursue him.

 

[polleypockets]

Linda - I am an English teacher. If you are not exaggerating, all I can say is Lord help us!!!

yea - unfortunatley she isn't exagerating :banghead:

 

[Kimberlyd125]

The bolded statement is interesting. Has there been any explanation as to why George's clothes show no signs of him being on his back on the wet terrain and the wet grass as he was being "beaten"? Even the backs of his shoes were clean. They should have had mud on them from the struggle to get up from the grass and regain his footing. That's another oddity in this case. IMO.

The back of his jacket was wet with grass on it.
I remember reading that early on.

 

[Bernina]

I have lost 2 entire posts cause this thread is so busy!
Dee Dee is using "street slang", common all over this Nation. I heard it 15 years ago at my daughter's HS and we live in RURAL Arizona, cattle country, open range, cowboys. We're not even a city, we're a "zip code". It wasn't acceptable in the house I grew up in, or in the house I raised my children in. But it is what it is. JMO
I can totally understand where she is coming from:
She finds out her childhood friend, she had re-connected with less than a month, was killed. The shooter has been arrested. Case closed. Then before the wake, she finds out she was the last to speak to him, she could have called 911 when the call was dropped but she didn't, she feels guilt, feels responsible. She doesn't go to the wake. She lies to get out of it.
Just mere weeks after the death she is contacted by the mom. She lies about her age to avoid talking to their attorney. She thinks the case was solved. She calls her mom in Haiti to help her get out of this situation. Her mom tells TM's mom, "It's OK" for DD to talk to their attorney.
LE hasn't even attempted to contact her......WHY?
The attorney tapes the convo/depo and THEN releases part of it to the media, w/o her knowledge. She hears her voice coming from the TV. Now she's being posted up on the Internet, in the paper, on the news.
The lawyers want to meet at such and such a place at a certain time, they don't care about accommodating her schedule. Her mom isn't there to support her, I presume she's still in Haiti.
She hasn't even had time to mourn her friend, deal with her self imposed guilt, or the sudden infamy. I'd be angry too.
I testified in a murder trial when I was 19, and again when I was 20. I was married and had the support of my parents, and if things got crazy, THEY could flex their muscles and get the lawyers to back down.
It was frightening, stressful, confusing, down right SCARY. As far as I know, my name was never in print or read over the local news.
I don't care how "mature" you are at 19, no one is ever prepared to testify in a murder trial, especially when you don't have support of some kind or someone to look after your well being. For that matter no one at any age is prepared to testify in the trial of the death of a friend. JMO.

 

[gxm]

The cell phone had been dropped and was on the grass at the time that the witness says she heard the grass noise.

You are missing my point. It doesn't matter if the phone was being rubbed in the grass. The only sense the "ear witness" had in play was auditory. Without the rest of one's senses, there is no way to know what one is hearing. IMO, the witness is relying on after-the-fact information to arrive at her testimony. The truth is that she may have been hearing wind noise, or breathing mixed with static, or even the sound of fabric. IMO, I am seeing a sad procession of testimony that relies more on information cobbled together after the confrontation than on actual, real-time experience. It is clear to me that not one of the state's witnesses, to date, has any clue what actually happened. JMO, OMO, MOO.

 

[MeeBee]

According to what Dee Dee/ Rachel said Martin was the first one to initiate the conversation.

I'm basing my opinion based on evidence and factual information.....

All of the documents are online, the evidence has been out for over a year.

JMO

Trayvon initiated verbal contact because he was being followed/felt harassed.

Yes, but you have also stated things that are not in evidence as fact, such as Trayvon went for the gun. That's important to qualify because there is so much assumption being made.

 

[iluvmua]

but wouldn't the same standard also apply to TM??

No, it would not....

Rachel said he was right by his father's place

He had more than enough time to get back to where he was staying well before GZ got off the phone.

IMO

 

[m00c0w]

but wouldn't the same standard also apply to TM??

Only if there was an imminent threat of use of unlawful force, at a minimum.

I'm not sure how reasonably "A man was watching where I was going" satisfies this requirement.

 

[TorisMom003]

The back of his jacket was wet with grass in it.
I remember reading that early on.

After LE handcuffed him did they allow Zimmerman to brush the grass off of his jacket? Did LE brush off the back of his jacket for him? If not then where did the grass go? And would there not be grass stains on the back of the jacket if Zimmerman's story was true about "squirming" while on his back to get his head off of the sidewalk?

Please note that I used "squirming" since that is the word Zimmerman used during the LE walk through.

 

[kaRN]

Please find me a link/document that states George is being charged with stalking.

There is NO evidence of stalking and there never has been.

JMO

I never said he was charged with stalking. That doesn't mean he didn't stalk TM or all the other suspicious people walking thought his neighborhood. He did stalk TM that night, by all the definitions presented in the last case we followed where we agreed that JA stalked TA.
She was charged for murder not stalking. GZ is charged with murder not stalking.

 

[polleypockets]

punching someone and breaking their nose and pounding their head against a sidewalk is a crime and it is illegal.

Trayvon Martin's actions that night are the solid reason he is dead.

If he would not have done what he did to George, George would not have had to use legal force to save his life.

JMO.

but what if she is telling the truth and his last words were get off me, cuz GZ is grabbing his collar trying to subdue him, or just the fact he ran away until he thought he lost him, and the GZ caught up w/ him - isn;t TM in fear for his life because he sees the creepy man chasing him??

 

[kimlynn]

None of this would have happened if Martin had not confronted Zimmerman, punched him, and bashed his head against the sidewalk.

IMO

So TM didn't have a right to question why a grown man was thrashing about in the dark in pursuit of him?
We have only the word of the shooter that Trayvon caused him to be in fear of his life.
Think how quickly GZ shot TM after the call by GZ to the police.
We even have a witness that told GZ he was calling 911.Before he could make it upstairs he heard the shot.
IMO