CO - Dylan Redwine - Forensics Discussion- *WARNING!* MAY INCLUDE GRAPHIC DETAILS

[Mitsana]

I hope someone can clear this up for me. I haven't been able to find a reference to a shoelace being found as part of the items. Was that just speculation or is that mentioned in a resource I can't find? The only thing I found listed explicitly was bones. But I saw explicit references to bones and other items, so unless it's just poor reporting, there should be something else.

Presumably, the non-bone items could not be immediately identified (so, not a cell or ipod) because the bones had to be tested to see if the items had any relevance to the case.

 

[iSleuth]

Even though I have been forced to teach a lot of courses over my career, my first love is archaeology and ancient history. They found the iceman frozen in tact after thousands of years - it has only been 7 months in this case. DR did not wander off, he did not fall where animals got to him.

Pardon the following graphic candidness... I think the reason that LE has announced this as a homicide and they are investigating it as such is because clearly by analysis of the disarticulated remains this child was chopped to pieces. :-( before the elements and animals disturbed his remains. ( if you look in archaeology even tiny bone fragments sometimes show knife -marks ) :-(


But there is clearly forensic evidence search warrants and seizures.
:slap:

LE hardly ever ever tell the media who the POI or show their whole hand. Earlier I think ( am I making this up) LE stated they had their theories and were waiting for a key few pieces. ( maybe it is :-( DR ) g-d may he rest in peace and play bball and txt for all eternity!

BUt seems like things are adding up. lease:

 

[rebeccaeee]

I hope someone can clear this up for me. I haven't been able to find a reference to a shoelace being found as part of the items. Was that just speculation or is that mentioned in a resource I can't find? The only thing I found listed explicitly was bones. But I saw explicit references to bones and other items, so unless it's just poor reporting, there should be something else.

Presumably, the non-bone items could not be immediately identified (so, not a cell or ipod) because the bones had to be tested to see if the items had any relevance to the case.

No reference. That info came from MR himself after LE said they would specifically not be releasing that information.

 

[Mitsana]

No reference. That info came from MR himself after LE said they would specifically not be releasing that information.

Thanks!

I hate to be a pest, but I'd like to know exactly what he said, so does anyone know of an article or interview video that has him mentioning the shoelace? My google-fu is failing me.

I am trying to envision how LE can be certain it was a homicide and whether the shoelace finding would be normal in a case like this. There may simply not be enough information out in the public at this point.

One thing I find odd is that LE claims they are done with the area and there's nothing else to find there. How could they possibly be so sure of that?

 

[ColdHands]

I hope someone can clear this up for me. I haven't been able to find a reference to a shoelace being found as part of the items. Was that just speculation or is that mentioned in a resource I can't find? The only thing I found listed explicitly was bones. But I saw explicit references to bones and other items, so unless it's just poor reporting, there should be something else.

Presumably, the non-bone items could not be immediately identified (so, not a cell or ipod) because the bones had to be tested to see if the items had any relevance to the case.

The very first post on this thread has MRs list of what was found
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9611880&postcount=2"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - CO - Dylan Redwine - Forensics Discussion- *WARNING!* MAY INCLUDE GRAPHIC DETAILS[/ame]

 

[ColdHands]

LE does not share concerns about MR knowing where Dylan was found:

Before the vigil, Mark Redwine said he met with law enforcement Saturday and went with them up to Middle Mountain to the area where they found some of Dylan’s remains.

“It was horrific. It was unimaginable,” Redwine said. “No parent should go up there” in a situation like this, he said.

http://durangoherald.com/article/20130629/NEWS01/130629447/‘He-was-an-amazing-person’-

 

[ColdHands]

Having shoelaces and no shoes makes me think back to the abductor theory as well as the father did it theory. Why would there be shoelaces and no shoes. As was posted on some thread somewhere, perhaps Dylan carried his shoelaces in his pocket and left his shoes open (some kids do that). Or perhaps the laces were just loose, and the shoes kind of open and an animal or bird took the laces for a nest. Or maybe there were just pieces of laces found (we don't know how much they found).

Other alternatives: used as a garrotte as posted above
Used to tie hands and/or legs.
Used as a tourniquet (slipped, fell, cut an artery)
Used to tie something on to something else (like if carrying a water bottle slung on a shoulder)

Of course, I wouldn't be hiking with no shoelaces, though, even if I didn't want to carry the water bottle.


Other reason why there would be shoe laces and no shoes?

Maybe they were found in feces? Undigestible so passed through but stayed recognizable?

 

[SCHMAE]

Maybe they were found in feces? Undigestible so passed through but stayed recognizable?

The finger was found in feces, right? I hate saying that .

 

[Mitsana]

The very first post on this thread has MRs list of what was found
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - CO - Dylan Redwine - Forensics Discussion- *WARNING!* MAY INCLUDE GRAPHIC DETAILS

So according to MR, they found "a piece of the boy's shirt, one sock and his shoestrings" (btw, I had tried searching this thread for shoelace but it didn't match shoestring. I also tried google and I'm surprised that didn't turn up a match since it uses synonyms).

Since this list isn't official, we don't know that it is right (and LE could be withholding even if it is correct). But let's assume it is correct and complete for now. Then it does seem very strange to me that laces were found without shoes, especially since it sounds like both laces were found by the use of the plural and neither shoe was found.

I know folks have offered a few suggestions; given that LE indicates that they know it's homicide, I am inclined to give a bump to thoughts that the laces were knotted in some way. When I was originally googling for the shoelace info, I ran across a theory in a different case (the West Memphis 3) that involved shoelaces being used to move bodies more easily, so I guess that is another possibility.

It also seems odd to me that a sock was found without the corresponding shoe. I can imagine that the shoes were taken away with contents by scavenging animals as someone suggested, but not without the sock. It makes me wonder if the body was clothed properly or whether at least some of the clothes (shoes, socks) were not on the body. Those missing shoes are really puzzling me, given that a sock and the shoelaces were found (assuming the list was complete). Especially since LE is convinced there's nothing else to find.

 

[*Lash*]

Thanks!

I hate to be a pest, but I'd like to know exactly what he said, so does anyone know of an article or interview video that has him mentioning the shoelace? My google-fu is failing me.

I am trying to envision how LE can be certain it was a homicide and whether the shoelace finding would be normal in a case like this. There may simply not be enough information out in the public at this point.

One thing I find odd is that LE claims they are done with the area and there's nothing else to find there. How could they possibly be so sure of that?

Mark told MSM about shoestring(s)-

Investigators also found a piece of the boy's shirt, one sock and his shoestrings but not the backpack or other items he had when he went missing, Redwine said.

http://www.denverpost.com/breakingn...edwine-remains-found-middle-mountain-colorado

 

[Mitsana]

The finger was found in feces, right? I hate saying that .

According to a post by Ghostwheel in a different thread:

Per Melissa Colorado ‏@melissacolorado 3m Dylan Redwine's father tells me authorities found his son's 2 femurs and a shoulder blade in woods.
2 femurs
1 shoulder blade or clavicle (collarbone) depending on where you read.

Per Tricia's 6/27 show
1 phalanx (finger bone) found in coyote feces

 

[SCHMAE]

I think I know the answer to this but someone may know better than me. Given what was found ...... will there be any way to determine if it's been in that location since Nov 19? If , for example, he was taken up a month later would there be anyway to tell the difference between 6 months vs 7 months exposed to the elements? TIA !

 

[*Lash*]

I think I know the answer to this but someone may know better than me. Given what was found ...... will there be any way to determine if it's been in that location since Nov 19? If , for example, he was taken up a month later would there be anyway to tell the difference between 6 months vs 7 months exposed to the elements? TIA !

Good question that has also been on my mind. A reporter asked Bender this question at the press conference and Bender gave the normal response. I can't give details at this time (not verbatim).

 

[ColdHands]

I think I know the answer to this but someone may know better than me. Given what was found ...... will there be any way to determine if it's been in that location since Nov 19? If , for example, he was taken up a month later would there be anyway to tell the difference between 6 months vs 7 months exposed to the elements? TIA !

So, I believe the answer to this is yes, they can tell, in general though probably not specific. Taphonomic studies have been done to determine animal scavenging patterns, and concluded that there actually are patterns. I spent some hours the other night reading up on this. PLEASE DO NOT READ ABOUT THIS IF YOU ARE SENSITIVE TO GRAPHIC DETAILS.

http://etd.lsu.edu/docs/available/etd-06092011-103357/unrestricted/Jones_thesis.pdf
A research paper that I found interesting included this table. (The table formatting got lost in copy/paste so I retyped it. The table is on page 7 of that link)

Table 1. Stages of Canid-Assisted Scavengers (N = 37) Modified from Haglund 1997a.

Stage 0. 4 hours to 14 days
Early scavenging of soft tissue with no body unit removal

Stage 1. 22 days to 2.5 months
Destruction of the ventral thorax accompanied by evisceration and removal of one or both upper extremities including scapulae and partial or complete clavicles

Stage 2. 2 to 4.5 months
Lower extremities fully or partially removed

Stage 3. 2 to 11 months
All skeletal elements disarticulated except for segments of the vertebral column

Stage 4. 5 to 52 months
Total disarticulation with only cranium and other assorted skeletal elements or fragments recovered

 

[margarita25]

"Investigators also found a piece of the boy's shirt, one sock and his shoestrings but not the backpack or other items he had when he went missing, Redwine said.

http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_23553442/dylan-redwine-remains-found-middle-mountain-colorado

 

[carbuff]

"Investigators also found a piece of the boy's shirt, one sock and his shoestrings but not the backpack or other items he had when he went missing, Redwine said.

http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_23553442/dylan-redwine-remains-found-middle-mountain-colorado

Wouldn't surprise me if he had tucked the shoestrings into his shirt pocket.

Shorts pocket. Shorts pocket! Brain fart there.

If they were just in the pocket, they could easily fall out and be found separately.

 

[ColdHands]

Wouldn't surprise me if he had tucked the shoestrings into his shirt pocket.

Whose shirt pocket? Dylan was wearing a tshirt. Could possibly have been in a pocket of Dylan's shorts though.

I think it's possible that an animal came across the sock and shoe and had a use for the sock but not the shoe. We don't know the range of distribution of these items - they could have been many yards apart.

 

[Wolf Dreamer]

I guess one big clue for LE as to this not being an accident would be the absence of the backpack? I wouldn't expect animals to carry that, or the electronics, away even if they took clothing. Yet they seem sure they won't find those items.

If there was dismemberment, and MR were responsible, surely LE would have found trace evidence at the house, or in the vehicle?

 

[carbuff]

Whose shirt pocket? Dylan was wearing a tshirt. Could possibly have been in a pocket of Dylan's shorts though.

I think it's possible that an animal came across the sock and shoe and had a use for the sock but not the shoe. We don't know the range of distribution of these items - they could have been many yards apart.

I meant shorts. Sorry. Brain fart...

 

[margarita25]

IF there turns out to be evidence of dismemberment, then I would lean more towards an RSO than MR.