George Zimmerman /Trayvon Martin General Discussion #6

[AngelWings444]

Video tape of the drive through with Officer Serino being played in court. Seems like GZ was following Trayvon for a long time. GZ's words.

 

[iluvmua]

I would have loved GZ as a neighbor.

JMO

 

[gxm]

No, I think he should be held accountable for his actions. Is that so hard to understand? I just don't want to get him for any old thing. But his story doesn't add up and the circumstances surrounding the altercation are very important. This wasn't just a case of someone walking around minding his own business and Trayvon attacked him. He followed a kid, made him feel uneasy or threatened or whatever and Trayvon reacted. If this ended up any other way then Trayvon would need to be held accountable for his actions as well. But he's dead so that can't happen.

It doesn't make it murder, but come on. He is not completely innocent here. And I haven't chosen to completely take him at his work because his story doesn't add up and I do not belive he was walking back to his truck when Trayvon attacked him. I don't believe that based on the evidence before you say so. Based on the testimony of the girl who was on the phone when the fight started and based on the layout of the area.

If you believe that the shooter should always be held accountable, then you should work to have the laws changed. I'm pretty sure that most, if not all, of the states have self defense laws which relieve the shooter of accountability when they are defending their life or defending against serious bodily injury. JMO, OMO, MOO.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

If nothing else, This video shows his injuries and his black eyes from his nose injury.

 

[gxm]

GZ comes across as mild mannered to me. I just don't see the angry, hostile gun-toting paranoid that state has tried to make him out to be. Just the opposite. JMO, OMO, MOO.

 

[AngelWings444]

Those trees are mighty sparse.

 

[MeeBee]

If you believe that the shooter should always be held accountable, then you should work to have the laws changed. I'm pretty sure that most, if not all, of the states have self defense laws which relieve the shooter of accountability when they are defending their life or defending against serious bodily injury. JMO, OMO, MOO.

But I never said that I believe that...

 

[JeannaT]

In this video, GZ is completely believable IMHO.

 

[TorisMom003]

There is a scenario that explains the evidence (including Zimmerman's injuries), the witness statements and the lack of injuries (except for the small abrasion on his left ring finger) to Trayvon's hands. The following is this scenario and is IMO how the incident happened.

It is possible that Trayvon ran after being watched and followed by Zimmerman in his truck as Zimmerman claims on the non emergency call. It is possible that when Trayvon ran that Zimmerman chased after him towards the back gate entrance as is heard on the non emergency call. It is possible that Zimmerman glanced down the "T" walkway as he ran towards the back gate entrance and did not see Trayvon walking down the "T" walkway. It is possible that Zimmerman began walking back to the "T" walkway after seeing that Trayvon was not at the back gate entrance. It is possible that by the time Zimmerman got back to the "T" walkway that he was no longer on the phone with the non emergency dispatcher and that he looked closer for Trayvon. It is possible that Zimmerman saw the back of Trayvon walking up towards the townhouse he was staying in and came up behind him. It is possible that after hearing someone behind him Trayvon turned around and asked why Zimmerman was following him. It is possible that Zimmerman, instead of answering him, asked what he was doing there. It is possible that Zimmerman grabbed a hold of Trayvon to keep him on the scene until LE arrived so that another one would not get away, causing Trayvon to say Get off me. It is possible that during the struggle to break free that Trayvon shoved Zimmerman, that in the struggle to keep a hold of Trayvon that Zimmerman slipped on the wet grass/sidewalk, falling backwards. It is possible that when falling Zimmerman did not let go of Trayvon but instead pulled him down on top of Zimmerman. It is possible that as Zimmerman fell backwards he hit his head causing the injuries to the back of his head. It is possible that as Trayvon fell forward onto Zimmerman that the can of Arizona watermelon flavored drink in his front hoodie pocket hit Zimmerman in his nose causing the injuries to Zimmerman's nose. It is possible that some witnesses saw Trayvon on top of Zimmerman struggling to get off and break free. It is possible that Zimmerman felt that Trayvon was going to get away after all and struggled to keep a hold of Trayvon no matter what. It is possible that Trayvon and Zimmerman were both (at times) saying help. It is possible that Zimmerman then pulled his gun on Trayvon to further ensure that Trayvon stayed until LE arrived and shot him. It is possible that Trayvon clutched his chest and fell forward, Zimmerman then looked for a weapon on Trayvon. It is possible that witnesses saw Zimmerman on top of Trayvon at that point.

MOO

 

[Hopeful One]

I would have loved GZ as a neighbor.

JMO

That's scary.

JMO, IMO, MOO

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Watching this video it all makes sense to me.

I think it proves that GZ was telling the truth because at this point, he has no idea what was heard or seen by neighbors.

I believe this happened as he says it did. I just don't see anything that says anything to the contrary.

Completely MO.

 

[rose222]

I hope Zimmerman is found to be not guilty. Clearly a tragic case of self-defense.

 

[tpatte021]

IMO - GZ is not believable at all in this video and is making it up as he goes to fit his story of self defense. GZ also claims that dispatch asked him if he still wanted police to come and looking at a transcript of the call, that is not the case.

 

[csziggy]

I don't own a gun and have never been in a physical altercation, but if someone were on top of me bashing my head and I became so afraid that I shot him, I wouldn't go back for more assaults.

It's kind of an artifact of shoot-em-up TV shows that people die quickly from one bullet. More typically, it takes more shots to kill or the person is able to recover fully from one shot.

I wouldn't get close enough to be assaulted again.

Hollow point bullets - the type GZ had in his gun - are designed to do maximum tissue damage:

A hollow-point bullet is an expanding bullet that has a pit or hollowed out shape in its tip, often intended to cause the bullet to expand upon entering a target in order to decrease penetration and disrupt more tissue as it travels through the target. It is also used for controlled penetration, where over-penetration could cause collateral damage (such as on an aircraft). In target shooting, they are used for greater accuracy and reduction of smoke, fouling, and lead vapour exposure, as hollow point bullets have an enclosed base while traditional bullets have an exposed lead base. In essence, the hollow point bullet has several purposes: hollow points are designed to increase in diameter once within the target, thus maximizing tissue damage and blood loss or shock, and to remain inside the target, thereby transferring all of its kinetic energy to that target (some fraction would remain in the bullet if it passed through instead). Jacketed hollow points (JHPs) or plated hollow points are covered in a coating of harder metal (usually a copper alloy or copper coated steel) to increase bullet strength and to prevent fouling the barrel with lead stripped from the bullet.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollow-point_bullet

From the TM's autopsy report:

Three fragments of the projectile are recovered. The lead core is recovered in the periocardial sac behind the right ventricle. Two fragments of the jacket are recovered in the right pleural cavity of the right lobe of the lung.

The injuries associated with the wound: perforations of left anterior fifth intercostal space, periocardial sac, right ventricle of the heart, lower lobe of the lung with approximately 1300 millileters of blood in the right pleural cavity and 1000 in the left pleural cavity; the collapse of both lungs.
http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2012/images/05/17/trayvon.martin.autopsy.pdf

From my reading - so IMO - the bullet went directly through TM's heart, fragmented, tore apart the bottom of his right lung, then both lungs collapsed as his chest filled with blood. Humans average about 5 liters of blood - nearly half of all TM's blood was in his chest cavity at the autopsy. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood#Constituents_of_human_blood)

IMO that is far more damage than a regular bullet would cause, and TM probably died very quickly.

 

[shragae]

Speaking for myself (and who else WOULD I speak on behalf of?) -- I have not yet decided what happened in this case -- whether it was self-defense or an intentional act (2nd degree murder or manslaughter). IMHO I don't have enough information to make that "call" -- and perhaps never will.

One thing that does puzzle me -- let's assume that everything GZ says is true and that from his perspective he feared for his life. Why -- even if TM began to beat him up -- why didn't he then identify himself either a policeman or some other sort of "authority" figure? If GZ had yelled out "Stop! I'm just the security guard!" or some such wouldn't that have motivated TM to stop hitting him?

In other words, GZ actions do seem odd to me. He never identified himself to TM so far as I can tell.

Why not?

lease:

 

[Nymeria]

It was a picture of his pants on a table. It clearly showed staining of some kind. I can not link it because it was on a blog.. but I searched TM's pant grass stains and hit images..

Thanks Scarlett.
I assume these are the pics you saw, they were the first hits on google for me. Posting for everyone to check out.





I guess if you really get in there you can see some grass smudge, however faint it may be.
I still am having trouble seeing either of them being on the ground fighting though. A rainy night seems like it would provide more dirt, grass, mud to clothing, especially if you are really fighting. But that is just how I see it.

 

[missmazzy]

GZ comes across as mild mannered to me. I just don't see the angry, hostile gun-toting paranoid that state has tried to make him out to be. Just the opposite. JMO, OMO, MOO.

...and he was also quite small back then...

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

@WildAboutTrial
#Zimmerman didn't think that the bullet hit #Trayvon when he said "you got me". He got Travyon face down and spread his arms to the side.

 

[gxm]

But I never said that I believe that...

That's how your comment came across to me. You seem to want to make an exception for GZ that doesn't legally exist. And I say that as an anti-gun liberal who doesn't think citizens should be walking around with guns. But that's the law and we can't disregard the law just because of the tragic nature of this case. JMO, OMO, MOO.

 

[MeeBee]

That's how your comment came across to me. You seem to want to make an exception for GZ that doesn't legally exist. And I say that as an anti-gun liberal who doesn't think citizens should be walking around with guns. But that's the law and we can't disregard the law just because of the tragic nature of this case. JMO, OMO, MOO.

But it isn't close to what I believe so you made an assumption. You are making a straw man because I don't believe any of what you think I do.