George Zimmerman /Trayvon Martin Discussion Thread #10 Mon. July 8

[pkz]

Fits perfectly with the escalation then pursued by a vigilant GZ. IMO

Did you see the Friday legal argument about self defense?
I completely agree, especially in light of the undisputed fact that Z had been following TM. He could have disengaged at any time~the aggressor cannot claim reasonable self-defense.

 

[Truthy]

First, he claims in his testimony that as he's working on his computer his wife is watching the news on the tv right behind him and that on the news they played the tape of the screaming but he claims the only thing he heard was the screaming and he knew immediately it was Zimmerman.

That by itself is too ridiculous to be believed. Just listening to that tape because the screams were background noise to a far louder noise of the witness and the person from 911 on the other end one had to strain to hear the screaming at all much less be able to identify who it was. He claims he heard nothing else but that screaming sound - didn't hear the lead in on the news for playing the tape nor the voices in the foreground of the tape. Further, he's never heard Zimmerman scream for help at all much less scream in terror of his life.

But what really hung him was that while being questioned on cross concerning his ethics (that he was very overblown about) because of being a sheriff of Orange County and the years he spent in the military he made sure that though he knew about Zimmerman being involved in a shooting he made sure he paid attention to no other details. But he then starts saying that because he knew he was going to be on the witness stand during Zimmerman's trial he wanted to be able to tell the jury the truth. That right there is basically a confession that he was groomed by the defense to do this testimony long after it was known there was going to even BE a trial and that he would be called as a witness about the identity of the voice screaming on the tape.

Dead silence. O'Mara was caught flatfooted and he LOOKED unbelievably uncomfortable when he said that. His saying that is an admission that his testimony was contrived for the trial because at the time the news started playing that tape was LONG before the investigation by Corey and LONG before anyone knew there was going to be a trial at all. At that time there was no REASON for this uncle to not be paying attention to the story because of his ethics because there WASN'T a case. At that time the case had been closed and Zimmerman was free as a bird. There was no REASON even for this uncle to not be paying attention because as Zimmerman's uncle he had ever reason TO pay attention.

I absolutely believe that the defense chose this uncle to be a witness BECAUSE they could harp on his credibility BECAUSE he was a sheriff's deputy and BECAUSE of that try to make him appear more ethical than the average Joe or Jane Doe. Otherwise why not use Zimmerman's wife, or best friend or someone that was far more familiar with the sound of Zimmerman's voice? But he ended up hanging himself by saying he knew he was going to be called as a witness for Zimmerman's trial and the reason being so highly ethical was because of that. And the camera shows Zimmerman swallowing REALLY hard as soon as he said that. Giant "oops" moment that shows his testimony to be transparent baloney. And both Zimmerman and O'Mara bloody well knew it.

George Meza's testimony:
http://youtu.be/6m0yMydxJTI

Agreed- if he was picking up any external sounds- he would have heard the newsreader say Zimmerman. He had no real reason for avoiding the trial on the news. If he had no idea what happened that night, he should have had NO expectation of being called as a witness except to describe GZs previous behavior. Way too pat- and that knew in his heart stuff is hilarious.
Not a credible story. IMHO
:seeya: Cziggy!

 

[PaperDoll]

GZ is yelling, not casually talking so his voice would sound different, just like TM. If this is TM, than he would, too sound different when yelling and screaming than casual talking.

 

[missmazzy]

Since the defense is claiming SELF DEFENSE and not claiming their client didn't shoot him i think Martin's past is very very relevant as it speaks to whether he is likely to have initiated the attack.

If this was NOT a self-defense argument then Martin's past would be irrelevant.

IMO.

In the JA case, she claimed self defense. I thought that was why all that nonsense about TA's "abuse" was allowed. Is GZ's actual claim self defense?

 

[katiewonders]

You can not pick the part you want only..

It says to make very angry OR impatient or annoy greatly..

And that is not what GZ says.. that is another posters opinion and does not go to GZ's absolute intention.

Just someone's feeling of it. and when I am exasperated I am neither angry or impatient.. I am usually just tired and weary of it. OMO

Actually, you can, you pick the definition (of several) that fits what you are saying. Your opinion is yours, my opinion is mine. I believe GZ was frustrated with the homes getting burglarized and annoyed that the burglars always got away. IMO

 

[Beyond Belief]

RJ testified that she said "maybe he's a rapist" to TM. TM then said "stop kidding me", or something like that. IMO, it was just two friends joking with each other.[/quote
Agreed somewhere in the conversation the basketball game also came up. imo

 

[JudyBolton]

I just arrived so I'll go back and look but this guy Osterman's testimony is odd. What makes him an expert in these things he's testifying about? The fact that he is/was an air marshal? Is he is a firearms instructor? Is he a law enforcement instructor? Or is all this simply his opinion?

No... the defense will put a firearms expert on the stand ( or at least they have one available) - this is GZ's friend who happens to be experienced in firearms and gave GZ advice and training concerning his gun. The reason he is answering these technical questions is because the prosecution is asking them....

 

[Candy_Pickletoes]

I'm sure it's off topic because I'm just now watching opening statements but I don't know if I like the approach/delivery of the Defense Attorney (sorry, don't know his name, the bald one)..it's almost condescending. JMO

 

[daisy7]

Do we know how many jurors have CCL's?

 

[JudyBolton]

In the JA case, she claimed self defense. I thought that was why all that nonsense about TA's "abuse" was allowed. Is GZ's actual claim self defense?

Yes it is - despite much disinformation in the media about "Stand Your Ground" he is not claiming that but self-defense.

 

[Isabelle]

Another statement GZ made in his 2nd or 3rd interview: GZ said it wasn't his voice in the background when Serino was playing the 911 take with the screaming. GZ claimed he was yelling for help but when asked if it was him in the background, he said no. He also said "that doesn't sound like me"

(playing a witness 911 call and questioning at the same time)
"Serino: You’re that voice in the background?
Zimmerman: No, sir.
Serino: That’s you. Are you hearing yourself?
Zimmerman: Um, it doesn’t sound like me.
Serino: It’s you.
(listening to the 911 call)
Serino: OK, right there. He smothered you, correct?
Zimmerman: Yes, sir.
Serino: At what point did he smother you?
Zimmerman: After…
Serino: Was it right before you shot him?
Zimmerman: Right…yes, sir.
Serino: OK. Immediately behind the shot?
Zimmerman: (sigh) I don’t remember.
Serino: OK.
(plays 911 call again)
Serino: I need you to give me an approximate time of when he starts to smother you.
Zimmerman: I don’t know when. It’s hard to…
Serino: That’s you, yelling for help.
Zimmerman: (unintelligible)
Serino: Help me, help me.
Serino: That’s when you shot him. (clears his throat) Can you recall (coughs) excuse me…at what point the suffocation happened? Prior to, prior to you shooting him, he was on you, correct?
Zimmerman: Yes, sir.
Serino: OK. And you were able to reach into your holster.
Zimmerman: Yes, sir.
Serino: OK. You shot him at point blank range. He was on top of you, right?
Zimmerman: Yes, sir.
Serino: OK. And in the middle of all that yelling, nobody came out to help you. And I can’t, I can’t pinpoint where you were smothered. That’s the problem I’m having. And nobody’s saying they saw him smothering you. People are saying they saw you, saw him on top of you, but they didn’t see about the smothering part. So…
Singleton: And when we’re listening to the screaming, doesn’t sound like there’s a hesitation in the screaming. It sounds like it’s continuous, and if someone’s being hurt (imitates scream being muffled) It’s gonna stop. But we don’t hear the, we don’t hear it stop."

Sounds like Serino was trying to convince GZ that the voice screaming was his, almost as if he is steering GZ in that direction. If the transcription is correct and the "that's you" is a direct statement and not a question, it's pretty clear what Serino may have been trying to do. MO!

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

.....and then he told him "he ran" ...and that should have been it.

In your opinion..

You were not there. You had not been living there being robbed. You had no experience in what that night was like. So for us to say should have, It is just a reflection about our judgments on what we think he was entitled to do and not based in law.

The law was followed. He did not break any laws by looking to see if he knew where TM was. WE know that according to Rachel testimony he was home. or near that and GZ was not around. But he ended up 70 yards back where GZ was near where he was parked so that says to me.. TM went back out to look for, toy with, or confront GZ.

Making TM the catalyst for the meeting up and consequent fight..


OMO

 

[rob]

I haven't been here since Wed, but the testimony Fri about the person screaming'help' on the 911 call. I can see why GZ would be screaming it, as it is obvious he was getting his azz kicked, but why would TM have been screaming it? Because GZ was chasing him? Because he was that afraid? But not afraid enough to high-tail it home? I just can't see TM screaming for help. I don't think GZ would have pulled the gun and held it on TM for that long, while he was screaming and then decided to shot. Doesn't make sense to me.

 

[katiewonders]

Well, I was trying to avoid this trial like that plague but my love for the justice system overwhelmed me and I've just now started watching opening statements. Perhaps I can catch up, though probably not. The verdict will probably come down before I can reach day 3! LOL

Have a good one all!

I know, right? I have tons to do and hear I am on WS. WS, "I wish I knew how to quit you." :floorlaugh: IMO

 

[NancyGracesBangs]

In the JA case, she claimed self defense. I thought that was why all that nonsense about TA's "abuse" was allowed. Is GZ's actual claim self defense?

The claim is self defense but I *believe* the difference in allowing TA's "abuse" was because JA knows TA so it is relevant to her state of mind.

GZ did not know TM so anything in TM's past had no bearing on GZ's state of mind since he didn't know him.

IMO

 

[Just K]

An interesting fact: that's because you hear your own voice as it resonates within your head when you speak. You don't hear it that way on a recording.

IMO, by age 28, most of us have heard our own recorded voice. We know how it sounds and we know it sounds different on tape than to our naked ear. GZ, IMO, would have recognized those wails as his own. He said that doesn't sound like me.

All of the above is IMO.

 

[Truthy]

You can not pick the part you want only..

It says to make very angry OR impatient or annoy greatly..

And that is not what GZ says.. that is another posters opinion and does not go to GZ's absolute intention.

Just someone's feeling of it. and when I am exasperated I am neither angry or impatient.. I am usually just tired and weary of it. OMO

Exasperated can mean both impatient (I'm tired of this!) and angry- in fact that combo of feelings is when exasperated is the perfect choice.
We can't kow the emotion behind every word, but GZ did appear to express displeasure that "punks" always got away. I think it's a very reasonable assumption.

 

[LynnM]

I can judge a person negatively when they walk across my flower beds by telling my neighbor that who ever did it is an *advertiser censored***hole. BUT that doesn't mean I hate them- it means that the person who trampled down my beautiful flowers is aweful for doing it-

Plus if if I didn't see WHO it was and they got away it would make more sense why I would be upset. This happenes all the time.
Something like- AND THEY ALWAYS GET AWAY WITH IT. moo

I see your point of course. Most of us don't use this term and commit violence; I never have and I am sure you haven't either. However, if you did shoot the trespasser within minutes then it would suggest a motive. Your neighbor would testify that you were upset about your flower beds and called the trespasser a name.

 

[Karmady]

Another statement GZ made in his 2nd or 3rd interview: GZ said it wasn't his voice in the background when Serino was playing the 911 take with the screaming. GZ claimed he was yelling for help but when asked if it was him in the background, he said no. He also said "that doesn't sound like me"

(playing a witness 911 call and questioning at the same time)
"Serino: You’re that voice in the background?
Zimmerman: No, sir.
Serino: That’s you. Are you hearing yourself?
Zimmerman: Um, it doesn’t sound like me.
Serino: It’s you.
(listening to the 911 call)
Serino: OK, right there. He smothered you, correct?
Zimmerman: Yes, sir.
Serino: At what point did he smother you?
Zimmerman: After…
Serino: Was it right before you shot him?
Zimmerman: Right…yes, sir.
Serino: OK. Immediately behind the shot?
Zimmerman: (sigh) I don’t remember.
Serino: OK.
(plays 911 call again)
Serino: I need you to give me an approximate time of when he starts to smother you.
Zimmerman: I don’t know when. It’s hard to…
Serino: That’s you, yelling for help.
Zimmerman: (unintelligible)
Serino: Help me, help me.
Serino: That’s when you shot him. (clears his throat) Can you recall (coughs) excuse me…at what point the suffocation happened? Prior to, prior to you shooting him, he was on you, correct?
Zimmerman: Yes, sir.
Serino: OK. And you were able to reach into your holster.
Zimmerman: Yes, sir.
Serino: OK. You shot him at point blank range. He was on top of you, right?
Zimmerman: Yes, sir.
Serino: OK. And in the middle of all that yelling, nobody came out to help you. And I can’t, I can’t pinpoint where you were smothered. That’s the problem I’m having. And nobody’s saying they saw him smothering you. People are saying they saw you, saw him on top of you, but they didn’t see about the smothering part. So…
Singleton: And when we’re listening to the screaming, doesn’t sound like there’s a hesitation in the screaming. It sounds like it’s continuous, and if someone’s being hurt (imitates scream being muffled) It’s gonna stop. But we don’t hear the, we don’t hear it stop."

Can you link the audio please. Every report I see about this when searching says that he said "doesn't EVEN sound like me." Even axiom amnesia and the democratic underground

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

IMO, by age 28, most of us have heard our own recorded voice. We know how it sounds and we know it sounds different on tape than to our naked ear. GZ, IMO, would have recognized those wails as his own. He said that doesn't sound like me.

All of the above is IMO.

Not necessarily true.. I sing.. or did.. Whenever I heard a recording, depending on acoustics and time of day, I did not always hear me...

I think it is subjective and there is no way to make a positive judgment on this.

OMO